Remove any one of them and you compromise the vehicles fighting potential. Perhaps in the future some sort of expert system can compensate, but currently humans are the limiting factor.

One thing which is perhaps worth to consider is that not all autoloders are made equal. The Leclerc/Type 90 are pretty good, while the T-72 system, while relatively reliable are said to have this odd tendency of stuffing parts of the crew into the breech! Though this may be simple hearsay.

Nontheless, looking at video recordings of the action, the Leclerc autoloader seems noticably smoother and less complicated – which should imply greater reliability.

That being said, you are right in your assumption that a autoloader can be used to make the vehicle lighter. Late 1980’s Soviet armor such as the T-80 was 20 tons lighter than the comparable Abrams while offering identical performance with regards to armor and firepower. Upgrades to the Abrams during the 1990s, primarily in optics and fire control, but also armor and ammunition design, means that the Abrams is currently superior.

Regarding Igloo 2 -3; I had no intention of seeing any more episodes, the Type 61 was what interested me. However, due to your recomendation, I will. Thank you for your comment.

On another note Igloo 2 -3 the last OVA in the series has more of the combined arms you are looking for, not much infantry but loads of GM goodness. Also there is an abundance of heavy ordinance, and artillery does fill the gap to kill anti-tank infantry and it does knock down 4th floors…

Seemingly, the only person without a ‘real’ job todo is the TC. Considering that every additional crewmember costs a tank roughly 8 tons in the armor required to protect him, it makes sense to eliminate the loader and combine the Gunner and TC roles.

This is a mistake. First, Tanks are maintenance intensive and additional hands are always welcome. Second, although a Tank may look big and dangerous from the outside, from the inside, the crew has these tiny vision slits, and they don’t really see much – especially cross country at speed!

The driver can only see straight forward, the gunner, only where the turret is pointing. The TC is the only crewmember who has a 360 degree view. It is his job to spot for enemy armor, helicopters and infantry, designate and prioritize targets.

Unsupported Tanks are sitting ducks for a well coordinated infantry assault. Without the situational awareness the TC provides, they aren’t even that! If you read about the ‘Battle of Vukovar’ or the various russian adventures, you will find that improper and unsupported use of armor against competent opposition inevitably and predictably leads to disaster.

Tanks can’t depress or elevate their guns enough to engage people in cellars or above the fourth floor making it possible for Infantry with RPGs in the urban environment to engage tanks with impunity.

Tanks are vulnerably enough – The last thing you need it to cripple the TC as well! This is also why people stress combined arms so much, and why Tanks should be accompanied by infantry – prefferably mechanized – whenever possible.

The job of the accompanying infantry is very important; they spot for targets, supress enemy RPG and ATGM teams, and prevent the enemy from simply walking up to the tank and throwing a backpack full of explosives on the engine deck. While the front armor of a tank is plenty thick, the top probably wouldn’t stop a .50 BMG AP.

To summarize; the Type 61 is flawed. A one turret/one gun solution, with three crewmembers would have been much better.

And for gods sake! Please, PLEASE! Show some combined arms! The 08th MS Team is considered to be one of the better series for a reason!

Then there is mobility:

First – Bridges. Most of the worlds bridges can barely handle a 40 ton vehicle, the only bridges that can handle a 70 ton monstrosity which is the modern tank exist only in the developed world – and even then, care must be taken!

Second – Traficability. The composition of the ground and the weight of the vehicle limits where a tank can operate. If the tank is too heavy for the local conditions it will bog down. The German WW2 Maus Super Heavy Tank is said to have been so heavy, that when it drives down a street the weight of it pushes down on the road, displacing earth and collapsing the nearby buildings!

The Hull of a modern tank (Abrams/Leo 2) weighs roughly 40 tons and the turret 15-20. The gun itself
(Rheinmetall 120mm) weighs 3317kg with mount. The Abrams carries 42 rounds for the main gun.

The Type 61.

The dual guns are a big problem, they don’t really add anything except a second round (tactically useless) while increasing weight dramatically and reducing armor protection. Compared to the previously mentioned modern tank, a drastic increase in the turret ring diameter is required, leading to a increased hull size, leading to a massive overall weight increase. This effectivly increases tank weight to over 100 tons.

Further, the size of the 155mm rounds limits the amount of ammunition that can be carried. A vehicle of this type would only be able to carry some 20 rounds.

A 100+ ton vehicle is unworkable. It would consume too much logistics, while only being able to move on a small portion of the world where it has favorable conditions.

To summarize; traficability limits tank weight. Some consider the current 60-70 ton tanks to be too heavy already. The only way to pay for the weight cost of the extra gun is to reduce armor. This gives you a dual gun, overweight PzH 2000 with paper thin armor.

This is the reason why post WW1 tanks follow the one turret/one gun pattern. For a given weight, it is the most effective solution, maximizing firepower and armor, while also simplifying fire control and reducing the Tank Commanders workload.

That being said, a 155mm main gun is a intresting thought – even with a ordinary High Explosive shell it would do serious damage to any opponent; potentionally flipping over lighter tanks!

Seriously, I freaked out. GREAT EPISODE!

Besides we both know officers rarely if ever clean their own weapons…

@ghostlightning
Yandell is a winner, though here he is THE Winner since he took down 7 Zakus with a lowly Type 61. Moby Dick was one of the first novels I remember reading, the peg leg and the White Ogre just kind of stood out immediately with the quest for revenge completing the triangle.

I prefer the balls on fire mone myself.

@schneider
I think his name was Snell or somesuch, I don’t really care for Zekes.

@IKnight
The problem is getting them to hit accurately because tanks are often too small to have the kind of turret you see on Battleships. If you ever get to shoot a gun you’ll find at greater distances it’s hard to hit a target unless your position is stable and your breathing perfect (i.e. standing vs. prone). One of the reasons why the Germans bothered with such complex suspensions for the Panther and the Tiger was because they made for stable gun platforms so you could take advantage of that 75 and 88 long. Unless the firing is synced perfectly the recoil from the one that fires first will throw off the aim of the second barring some technical solution that we in the 21st Century haven’t bothered with, also since the one shot from most modern MBTs have a decent penetration adding a second gun is not that much of a benefit since you also burn up ammo faster, which again take up a lot of room. I know in the case of the M1A2 getting it to hit while on the move was hard enough to get right, though even in instances of blue on blue with the Abrams the tank itself was usually salvageable after a direct hit.

Aesthetics are usually towards the bottom since feeding, recoil, and accuracy are the more important things. Realistically that barrel for that Zeke MG was pretty big and you probably would have fit only 10-20 rounds in that mag, which sort of negates the point of an MG if you have to switch out for every burst and re aim… Sunrise gets the mobile suits right for the most part, small arms though on the other hand aren’t anywhere near Golgo 13 or Black Lagoon.

@LurkerJay
You and your SAWs all I get to use is the M240 and the M2, both of which are BELT FED for GREAT JUSTICE.

@Dome
Yeah you know they are doomed but you still can but help cheer for the Feddies.

@Eirias
PhDs and MDs have to do research only under grads and a few BS or BAs have time to goof of with animu and mango. I haven’t read much of Kaplan, but from what I have heard he’s a slightly saner Ralph Peters, both only seem to see the world as it is, not how it should be. Even then they are a bit beyond the pale when they both call everything. Neither however seems to appreciate how finite American Military power is.

The way I see it conventional war will never go away simply because not every one has nukes, artillery is still the King of Battle because the USAF ain’t that Godly no air force can hit everything accurately in foul weather or when they face a SAM umbrella, so there will always be a place for artillery which hits like a ton of bricks no matter the conditions. There isn’t much that can withstand a 155mm Howitzer shell and even as far back as WWII you had very accurate artillery. The US in particular was loathed by the Germans who felt that within 5 minutes of every attack that every gun on the Western front was pointed at him, and the Japanese decried the US for hiding behind it’s deadly artillery barrages and superior fire power. Suffice to say the Allies and the US in particular were one of the few nations that had the money to fire for effect…