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	<title>Comments on: AMVerse &#8211; speculations on a &#8217;sphere</title>
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	<description>THAT blog of various wonders!</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:30:39 +0800</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: olivia</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-303268</link>
		<dc:creator>olivia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 04:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-303268</guid>
		<description>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4hTmAZPWIk

this will blow you away... please watch in HD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4hTmAZPWIk" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4hTmAZPWIk</a></p>
<p>this will blow you away&#8230; please watch in HD</p>
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		<title>By: lelangir</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-303223</link>
		<dc:creator>lelangir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 00:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-303223</guid>
		<description>@TP: IMHO you&#039;re mixing up functionality with intent. I make an AMV - I want to masturbate it to by myself. Where&#039;s the sharing in that? By semantics, however, an AMV would necessitate remixing content. What people do with their final product and why is completely up to them, however.

I don&#039;t see a functional difference between an &quot;AMV&quot; and a &quot;trailer&quot;. The difference is discursive, established by pre-existing norms, not by what the thing actually is.

It is true that making a [let&#039;s call it a] promotional media tool for a comedy show is hard because, as you said, inside jokes make no sense to new viewers. But a promotional media tool needn&#039;t rely strictly on inside jokes: it can advertise its studio (Sunrise/Kyoani flak etc.), its seiyuu, directors, slapstick comedy, or jokes that a wider populace will understand, like Genshiken-esque otaku-directed jokes. Those are classifiable as &quot;insider&quot; insofar as you broadcast it to the mainstream, while of course insiders will understand insider jokes. You can narrowcast media to a subculture. 

I&#039;d agree that, in the end, using an AMV produced by the methods we have discussed hitherto would be very effective. An AMV that is elected by the majority as the winner of a competition will have a very degenerated effect on that same populace - they&#039;ve already seen it once, it loses its first-time-value as a &quot;trailer&quot;. So the difference between trailer and AMV is more temporal than anything, I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@TP: IMHO you&#8217;re mixing up functionality with intent. I make an AMV &#8211; I want to masturbate it to by myself. Where&#8217;s the sharing in that? By semantics, however, an AMV would necessitate remixing content. What people do with their final product and why is completely up to them, however.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see a functional difference between an &#8220;AMV&#8221; and a &#8220;trailer&#8221;. The difference is discursive, established by pre-existing norms, not by what the thing actually is.</p>
<p>It is true that making a [let's call it a] promotional media tool for a comedy show is hard because, as you said, inside jokes make no sense to new viewers. But a promotional media tool needn&#8217;t rely strictly on inside jokes: it can advertise its studio (Sunrise/Kyoani flak etc.), its seiyuu, directors, slapstick comedy, or jokes that a wider populace will understand, like Genshiken-esque otaku-directed jokes. Those are classifiable as &#8220;insider&#8221; insofar as you broadcast it to the mainstream, while of course insiders will understand insider jokes. You can narrowcast media to a subculture. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d agree that, in the end, using an AMV produced by the methods we have discussed hitherto would be very effective. An AMV that is elected by the majority as the winner of a competition will have a very degenerated effect on that same populace &#8211; they&#8217;ve already seen it once, it loses its first-time-value as a &#8220;trailer&#8221;. So the difference between trailer and AMV is more temporal than anything, I think.</p>
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		<title>By: TP</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-303135</link>
		<dc:creator>TP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 21:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-303135</guid>
		<description>I shall put my pithy 2 cents&#039; worth of comments into here.

The primary purpose of an AMV is simple: remix content and share it. Consider its economic potential: zilch. Can companies do something about it? Maybe, but it depends on the treatment of it.

If we&#039;re talking about quantitative to qualitative ratios, I&#039;d wager that distribution companies are better off hiring good AMV&#039;ers to produce trailer content for them. The idea of promotions is to entice viewers to buy the series. AMVs, by nature, put out several spoilers and inside jokes that can only make sense to those who have watched the series beforehand.

It can be something akin to a machinima, whereby the content is taken from single/multiple sources.

In short, companies can use them &quot;as final promotional add-in&quot; like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.machinima.com/film/view&amp;id=1287&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this machinima from F.E.A.R.&lt;/a&gt; after publishing, but cannot use AMV as a replacement for trailers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shall put my pithy 2 cents&#8217; worth of comments into here.</p>
<p>The primary purpose of an AMV is simple: remix content and share it. Consider its economic potential: zilch. Can companies do something about it? Maybe, but it depends on the treatment of it.</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re talking about quantitative to qualitative ratios, I&#8217;d wager that distribution companies are better off hiring good AMV&#8217;ers to produce trailer content for them. The idea of promotions is to entice viewers to buy the series. AMVs, by nature, put out several spoilers and inside jokes that can only make sense to those who have watched the series beforehand.</p>
<p>It can be something akin to a machinima, whereby the content is taken from single/multiple sources.</p>
<p>In short, companies can use them &#8220;as final promotional add-in&#8221; like <a href="http://www.machinima.com/film/view&amp;id=1287" rel="nofollow">this machinima from F.E.A.R.</a> after publishing, but cannot use AMV as a replacement for trailers.</p>
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		<title>By: Kadokawa Gets Over 10 Million Yen Monthly from YouTube AMVs &#171; Kitsune&#8217;s Thoughts</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-303121</link>
		<dc:creator>Kadokawa Gets Over 10 Million Yen Monthly from YouTube AMVs &#171; Kitsune&#8217;s Thoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 19:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-303121</guid>
		<description>[...] AMVerse - speculations on a ’sphere (THAT Anime Blog) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] AMVerse &#8211; speculations on a ’sphere (THAT Anime Blog) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: elvadrieng</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-303025</link>
		<dc:creator>elvadrieng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 09:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-303025</guid>
		<description>Most amv stinks. I have only seen 2 or 3 that are good</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most amv stinks. I have only seen 2 or 3 that are good</p>
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		<title>By: Kairu Ishimaru</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-302973</link>
		<dc:creator>Kairu Ishimaru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jan 2009 03:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-302973</guid>
		<description>AMVs today seems to be the new &#039;hobby&#039; of noobs everywhere. They do it for fun just to show off even though the video they made sucked like hell. 
I used to watch AMVs. But I dont now since I never saw a good one lately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AMVs today seems to be the new &#8216;hobby&#8217; of noobs everywhere. They do it for fun just to show off even though the video they made sucked like hell.<br />
I used to watch AMVs. But I dont now since I never saw a good one lately.</p>
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		<title>By: lelangir</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-302904</link>
		<dc:creator>lelangir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 22:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-302904</guid>
		<description>cuchlann: that&#039;s interesting. Seems like mixed music (mash-ups) are intrinsically within their own genre (oh shi-?) - hiphop, or what have you. So, how to make mixed up rock music? I dont think you can, it would sound terrible. Sampling seems reserved for that kinda music.

&lt;a href=http://twitter.com/Canon2D/status/1092297370 rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Of course there&#039;s covers and doujin but music, but that seems so rare.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cuchlann: that&#8217;s interesting. Seems like mixed music (mash-ups) are intrinsically within their own genre (oh shi-?) &#8211; hiphop, or what have you. So, how to make mixed up rock music? I dont think you can, it would sound terrible. Sampling seems reserved for that kinda music.</p>
<p><a href=http://twitter.com/Canon2D/status/1092297370 rel="nofollow">Of course there&#8217;s covers and doujin but music, but that seems so rare.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cuchlann</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-302877</link>
		<dc:creator>Cuchlann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 21:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-302877</guid>
		<description>Henry Jenkins (a media studies professor at MIT) has blogged about AMVs before, saying similar things.  I mean, specifically that the editing and re-interpretation of the visuals can be considered the same as re-mixing, and thus not quite the same as straight-out piracy; the music use still works that way, though.  It makes me wonder that the AMV community ought to look at editing the music in a similar way.  Sadly, I don&#039;t have suggestions, really.  Music mixing and re-mixing is one of the tabernacle mysteries for all I know about it.  I made a few AMVs six or seven years ago and never put them up anywhere, just showed my friends.  Mostly they were for &quot;the lulz&quot; (setting Cowboy Bebop to Oysterhead, can it be anything else?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Henry Jenkins (a media studies professor at MIT) has blogged about AMVs before, saying similar things.  I mean, specifically that the editing and re-interpretation of the visuals can be considered the same as re-mixing, and thus not quite the same as straight-out piracy; the music use still works that way, though.  It makes me wonder that the AMV community ought to look at editing the music in a similar way.  Sadly, I don&#8217;t have suggestions, really.  Music mixing and re-mixing is one of the tabernacle mysteries for all I know about it.  I made a few AMVs six or seven years ago and never put them up anywhere, just showed my friends.  Mostly they were for &#8220;the lulz&#8221; (setting Cowboy Bebop to Oysterhead, can it be anything else?).</p>
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		<title>By: omo</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-302870</link>
		<dc:creator>omo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 20:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-302870</guid>
		<description>@Ryan 5cm/s doesn&#039;t need an AMV either :)

But yeah, you can really get into AMVs and what makes one fun to watch or technically impressive or wow an anime convention audience or a joy to put together. There are a lot of considerations, as usual.

Too bad the anime industry in America is just a super tinny tiny fraction of the NFL, and frankly what they&#039;re going for is drastically different than the majority of AMV out there today. Plus, there&#039;s still a music thing that the NFL thing doesn&#039;t quite leverage that the Xam&#039;d contest, for example, does...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ryan 5cm/s doesn&#8217;t need an AMV either <img src='http://that.animeblogger.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But yeah, you can really get into AMVs and what makes one fun to watch or technically impressive or wow an anime convention audience or a joy to put together. There are a lot of considerations, as usual.</p>
<p>Too bad the anime industry in America is just a super tinny tiny fraction of the NFL, and frankly what they&#8217;re going for is drastically different than the majority of AMV out there today. Plus, there&#8217;s still a music thing that the NFL thing doesn&#8217;t quite leverage that the Xam&#8217;d contest, for example, does&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Zentari</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-302844</link>
		<dc:creator>Zentari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-302844</guid>
		<description>@lelangir: I did, my point still stands (both of them actually).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@lelangir: I did, my point still stands (both of them actually).</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan A</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-302840</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-302840</guid>
		<description>AMV&#039;s to me have always been an &lt;em&gt;after-the-experience&lt;/em&gt; indulge, in which they glimpse a theme or essence of the title work. Macross F needs no AMV...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AMV&#8217;s to me have always been an <em>after-the-experience</em> indulge, in which they glimpse a theme or essence of the title work. Macross F needs no AMV&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Baka-Raptor</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-302838</link>
		<dc:creator>Baka-Raptor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-302838</guid>
		<description>The NFL&#039;s website recently added a feature allowing fans to &lt;a href=&quot;http://replay-re-cutter.nfl.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;cut their own highlight reels&lt;/a&gt;. They also seem to be able to add background music (I believe these songs are from NFL soundtracks so Omo&#039;s music copyright problem wouldn&#039;t apply). Of course, there are some key differences between these highlight reels and AMV&#039;s, but I guess this all shows the industry and fans might be able to work together...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The NFL&#8217;s website recently added a feature allowing fans to <a href="http://replay-re-cutter.nfl.com/" rel="nofollow">cut their own highlight reels</a>. They also seem to be able to add background music (I believe these songs are from NFL soundtracks so Omo&#8217;s music copyright problem wouldn&#8217;t apply). Of course, there are some key differences between these highlight reels and AMV&#8217;s, but I guess this all shows the industry and fans might be able to work together&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Myu</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-302831</link>
		<dc:creator>Myu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-302831</guid>
		<description>Yummy video. I think it is time to re-watch &lt;i&gt;Champloo&lt;/i&gt; yet again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yummy video. I think it is time to re-watch <i>Champloo</i> yet again.</p>
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		<title>By: lelangir</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-302822</link>
		<dc:creator>lelangir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 16:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-302822</guid>
		<description>@zentari: glad you read the title...

@omo: thanks, that was insightful. I didnt think of the music part.  And yeah, the video I posted is funny because it kind of distills all the action, haha.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@zentari: glad you read the title&#8230;</p>
<p>@omo: thanks, that was insightful. I didnt think of the music part.  And yeah, the video I posted is funny because it kind of distills all the action, haha.</p>
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		<title>By: omo</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2009/01/02/amverse-speculations-on-a-sphere/comment-page-1/#comment-302811</link>
		<dc:creator>omo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jan 2009 15:25:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=14834#comment-302811</guid>
		<description>I was told to read this post... I don&#039;t know why?

First of all, check out the Xam&#039;d/Boom Boom Satellite contest. It&#039;s exactly what you&#039;re talking about.
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/contests/xamd_bbs.php

Hmm, where to start. I guess the main thing I thought that was good is the recognition that AMVs are good for fans and good for companies to promote their wares. But neither is why most people watch AMVs or, most importantly, why they are created.

Sometimes, AMVs can bring viewers to get interested about a new show that they haven&#039;t seen, but most people enjoy AMVs with footage from a show they&#039;ve seen. So I think it is sort of weak as a promotional tool. It still is a good promotional tool for something else, I&#039;ll get to it at the end.

There have been occasions where companies run contests (with money prizes!) to see who makes the best AMV. They&#039;ll have official footages and music that you have to use, both for sake of legal-ness and fairness. But these don&#039;t work out very well for various reasons. (Getting user-created video content for commercial purposes is a whole separate thread by itself.) One reason I&#039;ll also address at the end.

Honestly, I think most anime companies (studios or distros or licensees or whatever) are plenty glad about AMVs because they do not make substitutes of the original work. Regardless people pirate it or buy it after they got interested, that&#039;s their choice. And even if someone is happy enough to see an AMV with all of Samurai Champloo&#039;s action scenes threaded together to some cool music instead of watching the show, that person isn&#039;t really watching the show anyways.

But here&#039;s the problem with AMVs--the &lt;b&gt;music&lt;/b&gt;. People don&#039;t realize this, but a picture or a song or a movie all have the same level of legal protection. In a audiovisual work, the video and the music are both subject to copyright. While we can say that so-and-so AMV uses clips from 50 different anime, very few AMV use more than 1 song per video. And the music isn&#039;t even always edited in an AMV.

So you might have guess by now, the biggest problems about AMV as discussed in ths post is also the music. AMVs are greatest at promoting music, they are also direct substitutes in a way since usually the entire song is used in an AMV. It is also difficult for anime companies to sponsor user-created AMVs because they have to dictate the music you use, which is one big problem for serious AMV makers. It really gimps their mojo. Why do they have to dictate the music? Because they can only use videos with parts they have permission to use. It would be nice if people can go ahead and make videos and the company just go out and license the parts used in the final product, but that&#039;s not how it works.

Lastly, a few AMV people ended up going pro and make trailers for anime companies. For example, Nightowl is this American AMV dude who&#039;s been at it for a loooong time, and he ended up making trailers for ADV.
http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_myprofile.php?user_id=4146</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was told to read this post&#8230; I don&#8217;t know why?</p>
<p>First of all, check out the Xam&#8217;d/Boom Boom Satellite contest. It&#8217;s exactly what you&#8217;re talking about.<br />
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/contests/xamd_bbs.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.animemusicvideos.org/contests/xamd_bbs.php</a></p>
<p>Hmm, where to start. I guess the main thing I thought that was good is the recognition that AMVs are good for fans and good for companies to promote their wares. But neither is why most people watch AMVs or, most importantly, why they are created.</p>
<p>Sometimes, AMVs can bring viewers to get interested about a new show that they haven&#8217;t seen, but most people enjoy AMVs with footage from a show they&#8217;ve seen. So I think it is sort of weak as a promotional tool. It still is a good promotional tool for something else, I&#8217;ll get to it at the end.</p>
<p>There have been occasions where companies run contests (with money prizes!) to see who makes the best AMV. They&#8217;ll have official footages and music that you have to use, both for sake of legal-ness and fairness. But these don&#8217;t work out very well for various reasons. (Getting user-created video content for commercial purposes is a whole separate thread by itself.) One reason I&#8217;ll also address at the end.</p>
<p>Honestly, I think most anime companies (studios or distros or licensees or whatever) are plenty glad about AMVs because they do not make substitutes of the original work. Regardless people pirate it or buy it after they got interested, that&#8217;s their choice. And even if someone is happy enough to see an AMV with all of Samurai Champloo&#8217;s action scenes threaded together to some cool music instead of watching the show, that person isn&#8217;t really watching the show anyways.</p>
<p>But here&#8217;s the problem with AMVs&#8211;the <b>music</b>. People don&#8217;t realize this, but a picture or a song or a movie all have the same level of legal protection. In a audiovisual work, the video and the music are both subject to copyright. While we can say that so-and-so AMV uses clips from 50 different anime, very few AMV use more than 1 song per video. And the music isn&#8217;t even always edited in an AMV.</p>
<p>So you might have guess by now, the biggest problems about AMV as discussed in ths post is also the music. AMVs are greatest at promoting music, they are also direct substitutes in a way since usually the entire song is used in an AMV. It is also difficult for anime companies to sponsor user-created AMVs because they have to dictate the music you use, which is one big problem for serious AMV makers. It really gimps their mojo. Why do they have to dictate the music? Because they can only use videos with parts they have permission to use. It would be nice if people can go ahead and make videos and the company just go out and license the parts used in the final product, but that&#8217;s not how it works.</p>
<p>Lastly, a few AMV people ended up going pro and make trailers for anime companies. For example, Nightowl is this American AMV dude who&#8217;s been at it for a loooong time, and he ended up making trailers for ADV.<br />
<a href="http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_myprofile.php?user_id=4146" rel="nofollow">http://www.animemusicvideos.org/members/members_myprofile.php?user_id=4146</a></p>
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