Captain Ginin has defended the Fatherland until death! May he at last find the peace he sought with his fiance that he was denied in life. So passed the Legend of Grunt Captain Ginin, the Faithful, the Slayer of Exia, The Mentor of Louise. We salute this most rare of Gundam Grunts, who’s glory has long since faded since the days of Gundam 0083. He joins South Burning in the halls of the honored dead.
Miss Halevy, many forms of government have been tried and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that the Federation is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that our democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time. I cannot accept your resignation or give you the discharge you have requested.
For you see, Miss Halevy, I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to Katarton of Azadistan or the terrible minions of Celestial Being. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger majority of the Federation, a higher-grade majority of the Federation, a more worldly wise majority of the Federation to put it that way, has united and denied them their desired place in the halls of power which they have sought to take by force of arms.
It is impossible for me, your commander up to now, to allow your promising skills to possibly fall into the power of the enemy you call Saji. I am determined to fight on until the end, and if we win, as I think we shall, I shall never forget that you, Miss Louise Halevy, were my Ally, that our interests and those of my comrades are the same as hers, and that our common enemy is Celestial Being and their Kataron lackeys. Should we conquer I solemnly declare that we shall restore to you the sense of purpose, dignity, and justice that you have lost since our failure to fight off the Gundam menace four years ago. For this purpose I must make sure that the best suits of the Federation are piloted by promising candidates. In these circumstances, Oberst Katie has instructed me to demand that you, Miss Louise Halevy, shall act in accordance with one of the following alternatives;
(a) Sail with us once again and continue the fight until victory against Celestial Being.
(b) Sail with us as a member of our medical support staff.
If either of these courses is adopted by you we will restore to you the funds, plus interest, you have already given at the conclusion of the war and pay full compensation for medical care if you are injured meanwhile.
(c) Alternatively if you feel bound to stipulate that your skills should not be used against the Celestial Being unless they break the Armistice they have with you, then sail with us with to some isolated place — Martinique for instance — where you can be cared for to our satisfaction, or perhaps entrust yourself to Prince Ali and remain safe until the end of the war.
If you refuse these fair offers, I must with profound regret, require you to enter the brig within 6 hours for desertion.
Finally, failing the above, I have a Presidential Order from the Federation Government to use whatever force may be necessary to prevent you from falling into Saji’s hands. – Captain Barack Ginin
Note: Calawain’s eyes were blinded by Jihad-kun and Saji’s nakkidness and bad memories of GSD, though please wish the poor guy luck on his last round of Law School Finals.
Sure Fat Seelian Kid is so sympathetic for wanting to stuff his fat face while his friends are but skin and bone…
Umm…weren’t the Feddies in the middle of nowhere, or did Memento Mori move the whole capital?
Whew, the Wild Bear Kick sure kicked the crap out of that shock wave…
After the obliteration of the Seelian regime Kataron laments how the Feddies did not break out the nukes to get the job done. The crater, it seems, had been able to discriminate between friend and foe and stopped right smack in front of Sergei. Quite how the comparatively small column of light was able to destroy some thing in the radius of 150 or more km is astounding and strange, unless of course, Seel rejected the value of strategic depth and allowed a small Federation battalion to sit on the outskirts of their capital without sending out a blocking force to glare at them. Memento Mori has sent shockwaves throughout the terrorist world as Kataron musters their entire fleet of 23 battlecruisers and 43 suits to assault the ion cannon. Once again Kataron shows just how much they care about the Seelians and the poor in general as they have spent most of their money on space forces to invade colonies and raid the orbital elevators which they do not own. How very nice of them to not even bother with a humanitarian effort or help Seelian refuges flee the country…indeed Kataron is the most just force of terrorists in the universe right next to CB, who have not asked a single question with regard to how Ms. Wang had missed it.
…
…
Indeed, WTF?!
Prince Ali is delighted to see that the Seelians who had orchestrated the Great Betrayal of Kurdistan decades ago was leveled in an instant. Nena who was beaten to pulp by Prince Ali was also delighted at the turn of events. Ms. Wang seemed to have some problems, but now is a little too late to be developing a conscience. Tieria develops one as well as CB finally figures out that they have been played for chumps since the beginning, believing that they are indeed infallible they decide to exterminate the Innovators, sadly they did not start with the one in front of them… Haptism being the dumb ass that he is says that a terrorist graveyard is not peaceful, and insists that the A-Laws have massacred anti-government forces (aka terrorists) oddly enough these same massacred people seem to be hell bent on building weapons instead of feeding their kiddie meatshield which looks more anemic than ever. Shirin bitches and moans some more about Azadistan not changing, blaming the Federation instead of herself she prepares to weep crocodile tears but Princess Poverty’s terrible piano playing nourishes her hatred.
I see Prince Ali did give this bitch a beating, though I wish we could have seen instead…
Peace through superior firepower.
Let’s see if CB and Kataron were all put in their graves that would make for one peaceful graveyard…
Katie is now without that hard ass Lindt to be her chief of staff so it falls upon Revival to help Katie form a search plan. Revival is impressed with Katie, but Revival’s counter part is getting hit on by that sleaze ball Leacherous Lyle may be “surprised” when he dares to trespass into Anew’s sleeping quarters. Captain Ginin asks Louise how she’s doing, but he inadvertently raises his death flag when he talks about his dead fiancé who was killed two months ago by Kataron Terrorists. Nena and Ms. Wang have a bit of falling out after Nena gets beaten by Prince Ali. Ali decided to let Louise have a go at beating up that fifth rate pilot Nena, while he contents himself with knocking out a few of Nena’s teeth and possibly some other things as well…
I am not expecting an even slug out in the next fleet battle, unless Louise gets a Dendrobium…still I like these Dauntlesses.
Better watch out Patrick Revival seems to have taken a liking to Katie…
The world has never known peace, since civilization started.
Sumeragi is overconfident in her predictions and instead of having Haro slaves load Ptolemy II she insists on using the under utilized labor force to load it for her. Keeping the full complement on base instead of evacuating all nonessential personnel, Sumeragi is caught with a bottle up her ass while her pants are down by Katie who arrives sooner than expected. Marie felt something odd but like an idiot she never brought it up as quantum brainwave users are so common, and she quickly forgot how her newtype flash foretold of the annihilation of the hated Seelians. The ambush begins and CB is quickly sent into a panic as they make a hasty evacuation under fire. As all of them were needed to set up some bombs though it was in the end wholly unnecessary as the A-Laws blew it apart any way. Ginin leads Louise and Andrei into battle as Jihad-kun gets outmatched by Patrick who stuns him in the vaunted Gundam 00 for a fair bit. Teiria has trouble with GARzzo and its pilot Bring Stabity as the later beats the shit out of Tieria while hardly breaking a sweat. Revival scores a clean hit though Ptolemy but because decompression is not in play despite the shot going clean through for a hull breach in any other Sci-Fi GN pixie dust prevents that and Ian convinces Saji to pilot O-Raiser instead of having marie the experienced pilot, nay the only other pilot. Once Gundam 00 is freed Ginin and his platoon take on Gundam 00 fairly well before Saji shows up in his new O-Raiser and Ginin dies after putting up a brave fight in his inferior Ahead. Louise weeps over the death of the man who did kept her on his team, but soon the sadness passes after much nakkidness from Saji and Setsuna who have SEED sex as Louise watches in horror, the sight had left Louise mentally scarred for life.
I can’t believe their sensors were fooled by blankets!
Haha guess who Jihad-kun?
Pranked by Patrick, and the thing is he did not blast off this time…
Impression:
Overall it could have been a decent episode, but there were some nagging issues I had with this one. Despite the kick the dog moment I didn’t feel anything but laughter at their attempt to make the WMD seem terrible. Mostly because I have little to like the token Seelian fat kid and the new girl introduced this time, and it made the alleged tragedy seem distant and boring. Maybe it’s because I have seen one too many colony drops or have been watching Char’s Counterattack one too many times has made me rather thick skinned to this ploy. There was no emotional investment to want Seel to come better off after it and it was sort of botched as well as the blast in the last ep seemed so far away from Sergei’s position, but had the blast been something then the crater would not have been as close to Sergei as it was unless his manliness stopped the shock wave cold. Another thing that bothers me is that settlement that kind of popped out of nowhere last time the capital seemed a bit more distant or at least the there was not much to see when Sergei saw the blast there was nary a silhouette of a major settlement. Perhaps it was some other settlement otherwise it seems that Sergei and his merry band of Feddies were camped outside of the Seelian Capital, when not a single shot had been fired yet. Either way it’s hard to bond with the Seelian kid who looks like he’s been stealing food from the rest to make me want to sympathize with what happened.
Louise never imagined Ginin as the romantic kind.
Ginin felt if prudent not to complain about it to Louise, who has plenty of problems herself.
They took from him his wife to be, now Ginin will take from Kataron that and more… Watch carefully Louise this is how a real mecha pilot handles a great loss, not with an endless streams of tears, but with stoicism.
More over it seems that the kiddie meatshield not only grew in strength, but they were damn QUALITY this time too, I know they blew the budget else where on Gundam 00, but since Seel kids were animated with little care I did feel like caring about Seel either. Well Kataron shows again how wonderful blokes they are for killing Ginin’s wife to be, launching terror attacks, and spending money to amass 23 battlecruisers and 43 space suits instead of coming to the aid of the Seelian refugees. Like I said it was rather a botched ploy, no one seemed to want to do anything for the civilians in the wake of the Ion Cannon, and it seemed the only thing worth discussing was taking out Memento Mori with nary a word mentioned about what to do on the ground. It will take a while to mobilize on such short notice anyway, why not spare a few men and women for the task? It’s not like Kataron is swimming in suits or that CB is suffering from man power problems. It didn’t seem like they cared much about those poor ionized Seelians… considering how Sergei survived it’s not like every one died that instant. Again, nobody cared so I really can’t say I cared much for Seel. Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Seelians? (the quote is more apt if you know that context, not that most people where would)
I have a rendezvous with Death
At some disputed barricade,
When Spring comes back with rustling shade
And apple-blossoms fill the air—
I have a rendezvous with Death
When Spring brings back blue days and fair.
It may be he shall take my hand
And lead me into his dark land
And close my eyes and quench my breath—
It may be I shall pass him still.
I have a rendezvous with Death
On some scarred slope of battered hill
When Spring comes round again this year
And the first meadow-flowers appear.
God knows ’twere better to be deep
Pillowed in silk and scented down,
Where Love throbs out in blissful sleep,
Pulse nigh to pulse, and breath to breath,
Where hushed awakenings are dear…
But I’ve a rendezvous with Death
At midnight in some flaming town,
When Spring trips north again this year,
And I to my pledged word am true,
I shall not fail that rendezvous. – Alan Seeger
Katie’s plan was great and overall it seemed to highlight how infantile Sumeragi was since she relied on Gundam 00 Raiser to bail her beer butt out of the fire. Tieria was pwned by GARzzo and Lyle couldn’t hit a damn thing. Hell for once Patrick was not shot down and even scored a hit on Jihad-kun and the Gundam 00. Even before the attack given the huge man power reserve that seemingly came out of no where Sumergai could have started the evacuation much sooner once any hope they had in secrecy was lost. It’s not like they needed every one to sit around at their desks, hence all the mooks in black and red were did not need to be there and should have been sent off much sooner than they were. None of them were setting up bombs or anything, and do you need all of them to back up data you intend to destroy? Heck, don’t they back up their data on a regular basis? Such gross incompetence saps any sympathy I might have had for them. Furthermore who builds a base that stores a bunch of weapons and holds a treasure trove of data with out some defense, secrecy was lost early on and no defensive measures were taken, no mines were laid, or any non-essentials sent away. If nothing else at least the A-Laws didn’t suffer too badly against Gundam 00 given how Patrick was able to score a clean hit, Louise blocked off Jihad-kun’s knife toss, and Andrei just got a kick.
Before Katie never had many suitors…
Now she’s got one Innovator admirer…
and one Patrick.
Ginin was laid low this time, but it took Gundam 00 Raiser to do it, and he was piloting a standard Ahead no less. With any luck even Trans-Am Gundam 00 Raiser will have a hard time killing much else considering how much power was needed to overcome a grunt captain like Ginin. I honestly felt more for poor Ginin that for Seelian fat kid, mostly because he wasn’t being an asshole to Louise and seemed to have accepted her as a member of his team despite her bouts of recklessness. While the dead fiancé thing was a death flag at least Ginin kept it professional and didn’t lay on his problems to every one else, and certainly not to subordinates like Louise. Unlike Andrei, Ginin wasn’t going to pry into Louise’s personal affairs and let her pop pills without giving her shit. It would have been more powerful had we actually seen more of our grunt captain training Louise. At least we know that he had been trying to make her a better pilot given how she has improved greatly over the course of the series despite having so little experience in fighting a Gundam. Last time she made a b-line for Ptolemy this time she was actually obeying orders and doing very well. Besides if Louise was willing to shed tears for the man, he was at least some one that tried to help Louise be a better pilot. Again I wish we could have seen more of the man before he died. If nothing else it at least verifies that Kataron has been targeting Feddie civilians too, so in hindsight going Total War on Seel for having Kataron over for tea is at least understandable. This is probably and ugly war and hence a total war where both sides treat opposing civilians as fair game. No point in moralizing Memento Mori now, since Kataron seems to be attacking civilians too as such there will be no quarter asked and no quarter given. Seel sided with Kataron and they felt Feddie Total War as well. It’s just a shame we never see Kataron doing bad things, though they seem to do plenty of dumb and callous things too, like setting up Seel for the bomb while they run off with all the info. Well Ginin died a hero and that will have to do I suppose.
QUALITY animation with QUALITY Piano playing…
Says the man who sexually assaulted Feldt.
And not, Lyle she ain’t doing it for you…also don’t try to sneak a peek you pervert…
Innovators were all round better and delicious as well, Revival seems to have decided to work with Katie while Lindt was off prepping for the primary ignition. Stabity really did a number on Tieria considering that GARzzo had a GN Tau drive compared to Tieria’s superior GN Drive. Anew was alright this time though I am starting to hate Lyle for daring to make a pass at her. I wish lecherous Lyle would keep his lecherous hands to himself and leave Returner alone. As I said before Marie was stupid for not sounding the alarm once her quantam brain waves felt funny, its not like Haptism was giving them off or that there are friendly super soldiers around any more either. Revival in Gadessa was kick ass as Revival shot straight through the hull, but alas it did nothing which leads me to…
I fucking hated SEED and this bout of nakkidness was very VERY unwelcome and did burn mein eyes, thankfully I was not blind once I realized that neither Jihad-kun nor Saji had balls of any sort… I really hate how quantum brain waves are becoming souped up newtype powers and even more so now that GN Pixie dust can grant them to Saji and Jihad-kun. It just seems like a cover for SEED mode, which I loathe, and brought back bad memories of GSD. I don’t want to be reminded and of all people to copy why fucking Fukuda and his propensity for nakkid conversation through mecha. GN particles are really starting to edge on to such bullshit that Minovsky particles seem tame in comparison, but really there was no need to have Saji and Louise communicate like that, and no, I did not need to see Saji or Jihad-kun nakkid. That pretty much broke the episode for me more than anything else. At this point I think we might need to prepare for another GN Pixie dust miracle during every battle, I still have no idea why Saji and Jihad-kun would all of a sudden gain powers while pointedly not having any history of being super soldiers or related to quantum brainwaves.
I hope you stay like this forever Louise.
Right idea, but Ginin’s right you’re not an ace like Norris Packard yet Louise. Your application to the School of the Undefeated of the East is still under evaluation though…
Tears of the Maiden. If only we could have seen more of Captain Ginin.
I find it galling that Saji is now the pilot of O-Raiser not only was it too good for the bastard, Saji has never shown any piloting skill at all got nary a scratch while being a total newb at this piloting thing. I was just a blatant toy commercial since by all rights an inexperienced pilot like Saji should have been trashed, but instea not even a scratch while he flew straight and level. Hell a barrel roll might have made it better, but meh, Saji doesn’t get his ass kicked. It was simply terrible that Saji was sortied out instead of having Lasse do it. It was inevitable that Saji and Louise would meet again, but damn Mizushima to hell if we have to endure yet more Saji and Louise wangsting. Louise was doing so well in not laying all of her bullshit on us, Saji was always a lost cause, but now it might well get worse. Louise was doing so well too, she had decided to do something with her life, worked hard, made sacrifices, found a yuri friend, and was so dedicated to being a better pilot that even Ginin felt it worthwhile to try and train her. I hope Louise recovers from this even if Andrei has to do something drastic to snap her out of it. Sad to see that the only real hope I have for saving Louise from crying about Saji is that creepy captain obvious Andrei. Here’s hoping Saji wrecks Gundam 00 Raiser and Andrei saves us from the return of old weepy Louise. I am going to miss Ginin as grunts don’t benefit from the resurrection policy.
No she won’t go back into the kitchen Saji…
Saji has betrayed you…after all he did know who it was that killed your family and your left arm…
Andrei I am giving you a Permit to make sure Louise doesn’t cry over Saji, do whatever you deem neccessary. I want results not excuses…
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50 Comments
I dunno, I’d have expected even Calawain to have experienced siezures with this one. The episode in itself wasn’t bad, but the Newtype-ish development is kind of… odd, to say the least. GN Particles were basically a stand-in for Minovsky Particles in 00, in that they were a byproduct of the GN Drive that also happened to also fool radar. But I never got the memo that they also induced quantum brainwave activity in Non-Supersoldier or Innovators.
I believe it wasn’t saji who was piloting, but Haro instead. Just look at Haro spinning around, all those crazy maneuvers to the docking sequence were all done by his mad skillz. Seriously, Saji can’t pilot worth shit, they should leave it up to Haro for piloting the O raiser >_> My god, the Haros are so much more badass than the ones in seed.
And Since this episode is a total cliche lack luster of that Sunrise didn’t listen or not understand from their matter back on GSD! Looks like to me that they have no heart on this matter. Oh, so cliche space intranse naked episode, guess I need to back to start watching the old animes between Zeon and Federation. Sieg Zeon!
Well atleast they are trying to be balanced in depicting A-Laws as humans too. So funny though in the beginning everyone was having mini-orgasms when they nuked the city. Otherwise they better have a good reason for this ending(probably won’t looking at Geass). I’m curious how CB is supposed to change the world when they are getting pwned by just the regular troops and not even the main corps of the Innovators who will probably destroy them with equal equipment and superior fighting skills. Oh and she should go back to the kitchen since she isn’t doing anything outside of it. Hopes she makes a decent omelet. Sigh..
To quote the Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates:
“#37. There is no such thing as ‘overkill’. There is only ‘open fire’ and ‘time to reload’.”
I haven’t actually seen the episodes in question (I’m allergic to mecha), but I’m assuming we aren’t seeing a media backlash against the Federation for going all Sodom and Gomorrah on an entire city? That suggests that either a) CB and their allies have completely lost the information war and no one in the Federation cares how many non-fed civilians get killed eliminating them or b) The Federation does not give the media the same sort of freedom that we do, and in fact may not be as free and democratic as you have been arguing.
In any case, I’m enjoying these posts, maybe if the A-Laws win I’ll even give the show a shot.
It’s both A and B. It seems information was Kataron and Seel’s specialty and that served them remarkbly well. Also it seems that the regular citizen has no clue wtf is going down in the Middle East, and why should they care.
This epsiode makes me laugh.
This episode makes me laugh.
*Naked Setsuna in NEWTYPE world looks like he is sitting on the toilet.(blame for that Setsuna’s pose and fanarts)
*Brothers Dylandies aren’t so different – they both love Innovators.
*CB is a trash: kills good guys like Barack instead of some Innovator; what for CB needs Sumeragi if they can always use some new hax powers, after all that’s what saves them all the time.
*I knew that Sergei is alive. Ian is alive too.
*Congratulation to Patrick on staying in battlefield and giving hard time to Gundam 00.
Revive and Kati in the bridge reminded me scene with Patrick and Kati in season one when he came to ask Kati why he isn’t going first to battlefield in desert mission.
Patrick’s words in this episode reminds Emilio words: “I believe in your predictions”.
fuck this series, im going back to watching gundam 79, 83, and zeta, peace.
stupid naked dreamworld bullshit.
whats wrong with this production company?!
When did Saji learned to pilot like that?
Nice episode the battle was pretty good but it’s kind of sad that Genin died but it was something that I was already expecting
I had no clue that CB had so many people O.o
nah, Saji didn’t pilot. But apparently the 00 raiser needs someone to sit inside, otherwise it wouldn’t move its butt…
seems to me the only purpose for its pilot is to suffer the sit and spin seat while HARO the true pilot does all the work….
Like one sniper pilot…. =)
hmm, interesting math, 00 + o-riser + trans am = temporal rift in the space-time continuum
and kudos to ribbons for getting a reaction out of miss wang that isn’t a smirk
such a shame, Hallelujah turned out to be little more than a cocktease, i really wanted to see him tear some poor saps a new asshole.
funnily enough i didn’t feel any sympathy for zinins death, or that it was heroic, he let the 00 get on his six and as such paid for it dearly, not really tragic, just unfortunate.
also after hearing even more saji complaints in the comments section when he finally does something other than sit in a corner and cry leads me to believe that there is just no pleasing some people, seriously, first you harp on about him not doing anything then he finally decides to man up and do something and you STILL complain, in the words Ben “yahtzee” Croshaw
‘Fans are clingy complaining dipshits who will never ever be grateful for any concession you make. The moment you shut out their shrill, tremulous voices the happier you will be for it.’ seems that sunrise is following that line of thinking.
Ok, screw Jihad-kun, it’s obviously that Haro is the best pilot in CB. Just my thought, nake mecha pilots have no place in any type of war zone.
I still find it ridiculous that ore-gundam still needed to go trans am even AFTER docking with the o-raiser. So now with his new Hax he feels like he can change the world. Great, I’ll just point out the normal arguement against mobile suit only forces, while they’re great at killing military forces they are not ideal at holding or converting civilian populations.
Ginin should have at least gone out in an awesome duel rather than a cheap speed hax back stab. Oh well at least, Bob can how have a organ crushing speed battle with G-O Raiser now.
Sadly to say… we lost Captain Ginin this week,
wheww… it’s been a while Since GS-GSD, The Scene I most hated in gundam Universe is Naked Conversation inside Mechas, I think this trend will continues in next gundam show. Just like a trend blonde man with the mask.
it seems triangle love story and homoerotic feelings between Saji+Setsuna+Gundam 00 resulting infinite power to slay Ginin. but i glad Patrick score some points this time.
For louise-oneechan let hatred flow with you coz the most hatred you feel towards CB, the more power you will gain for revenge.
At least in CB department we have lecherous lyle who have straight priority, after boldly kissed feldt and now lechereous lyle try his own luck to flirting with Anew. heck… this man is a openly perverted (As i expected from kurz weber descendants)
Well, this episode broke all of Crusader’s rules for an episode being “good”, so no shockers here, but I’m still going to comment because I too found the episode unimpressive, but I feel my reasons were a little more practical and justifiable and a let less personal then the C man’s and that this “criticism” in a long line of ravings misses the point when it could have been an effective one. First let’s just count the number of Crusader rules this one broke before continuing:
- Barack died (oh noes, did one of my favourite characters die, RAEG HATE!)
- 00 was powerful again (….)
- Saji actually got to do something useful (actually what you didn’t pick on because your attention seemed to be elsewhere is that Haro was more or less executing the evasive maneuvers)
- Louise looks like she might be on the path to getting back together with Saji (Plot development that is practical and possible, but isn’t part of Crusader’s rules so therefore is “bad” now and warranting of a paragraph of….some variety of….”criticism”? Or is it more RAGE HAET?)
- Setsuna was successful in combat against one of Crusader’s favourite characters (a broken Crusader rule, nuff said)
- Celestial Being still trusts Wang because they’ve still been given no reason to doubt her. (Admittedly you didn’t bring this up this time, but I can guess you were considering it)
-Poor animation? (Ummmm…..sure, whatever you say there Crusader, whatever you say…..)
Now my reasons for having a less favourable opinion of this episode then others:
- Ummmm…….well first of all the dialogue wasn’t up to par and was pretty cliche overall, which brought the episode down for me quite a bit.
- Again in my case I found the post credit sequence a little too bizarre, even for newtype-esque sequence and didn’t feel it fit well with the end of the episode and what had come before it.
- Neither “strategic” plans were all that great and again amounted to the characters talking about how good they were. For one Katie’s plan wasn’t even Katie’s plan, it was Ribbon’s in using Anew and the power of the Gadessa to find and overpower the Ptolemaios, for another, Sumeragi’s plan again hinged on Trans-Am and was more Ian’s then anyone elses.
- Again time is wasted with Marina and the children and nothing is coming of it. It doesn’t seem to serve a purpose in the series, much like Marina.
Not the best episode I can agree as much, in fact there’s a good chance I liked it even less than you did C, but shit happens etc, and you still won’t find me raging over it nor pretending that the A-Laws are some perfect bastion of everything that is right in this series universe. And really it’s because I have better things to do then have an aneurysm over a TV series, and better reasons to be unimpressed by an episode. Speaking of reasons to be unimpressed (and the real reason I’m leaving this comment), let’s talk about a bizarre tendency of your’s that I’ve noticed for a second, and I hope you don’t mind me putting you on the hot seat once more.
Why you find it necessary to come up with lame excuse after lame unrelated to the point excuse to try and justify everything the A-LAWS do and to villify everything Celestial Being does I will never understand, but really you have to admit, it’s a stance that is wearing thin to the point of becoming both transparent and implausible by the episode summary. Sorry, but you have a long way to go before I can call these reviews, so summaries they shall remain.
And essentially that’s the difference between you and me when it comes to criticism a lot of the time Crusader, you’re reasons for outrage so rarely if ever make any sense in relation to the series obvious (to everyone but you it still seems) goals and are seemingly just based on a general set of irrelevant expectations that often make me laugh, but rarely make me feel like you’ve managed to adequately criticize anything of importance. See if I have a reason for disliking something I will ultimately try to tie it to the events of an episode and what it set out to accomplish versus what I (theoretically) demand from it but couldn’t get because of some unrealistic set of expectations that I could have drawn up before it even aired. Expectations that again have nothing to do with actual quality, but merely my own indulgences, impulsions, and desires.
With you it apparently doesn’t even matter if an event is both practical and fits within the narrative of a scene or episode, so much as it’s a scene or episode that paints the A-LAWS as Christ figures and Celestial Being as demons, lest you go on these rants about how Sunrise is screwing “everything” up (rather merely screwing up your rigid vision for the series)……as if your vision matches the series overall goals and narrative.
Frankly, and I’m going to be blunt again, your ideal Gundam 00 Second Season as it comes across from your rantings isn’t all that good a story (alright, it’s pretty much as boring and lacking in things that interest as they come) and just results in A-LAWS winning every single encounter and the characters remaining static entities. wow how exciting…….
Truthfully I’m left to wonder if in theory an event transpired in Gundam 00 that made absolutely no sense within series continuity, but was used as a way to give the edge to the A-LAWS if you would herald it as quality material. I want you to answer truthfully now, if the events of this episode were reversed and it was Celestial Being getting repelled from an attack on say, Memento Mori by the A-LAWS, and say…Katie Mannequin or Arba Lindt deployed in a support craft to bail out Barack followed by them sharing a newtype experience that sparked a romance, and the A-LAWS cause prevailed by the end of the episode, would you be fine with the type of dialogue and the newtypesque sequences this episode?
In either case I suggest reading blind_dead_mcjones comment hear, specifically the part about where Sunrise actually doesn’t care about you’re rigid rules, because they have nothing to do with anything of relevance as to what is going in the series. It’s not their fault that you are stubborn as hell as to what you want out of the show or how events should turn out and I’d still sooner pick their Gundam 00 over your “Gundam 00″ even when it’s not up to par.
By the way, there was a naked sequence in an episode of Zeta Gundam featuring Haman and Kamille, so if you want to tie it Seed be me guest, but there was a precedent that was set long before Fukuda ever did. In fact there were a lot of precedents that were set long before Seed. At the very least though, please don’t give me any of that “Well Seed was the most well known series so clearly it must have been Seed that inspired the sequence” because you are not the writer (that also goes for everyone else here that has any delusions of being a writer for the series and having access to all the future events that are being set up right now that they’d totally f^#k up if given the reins to overwrite the events of this episode with their vision) nor the director of this series, and no matter how much you think your position as a blogger gets you inside of their heads such that you know what’s best for the series over them, it doesn’t. Best course is not to generalize. Just try it for a change okay? It’s really not as hard as you might think.
Anyway I hope you will excuse me if I choose from this point on to start thinking of your posts as Lewis Black style entertainment as opposed to sharp biting criticisms of the show, because it is now impossible for me to take them seriously anymore. It’ll just make it easier on both of us.
@Excaliiba1: Yes you get all upset about the “dreamworld” stuff and go back to Zeta which started the whole naked Newtype experience. Cause you sure have any idea what you’re frothing at the mouth about and seem to have a firm grasp on Zeta Gundam’s events. You know, if this bashing didn’t always seem to go hand in hand with sheer ignorance I probably would have less of an issue with it. Why can’t you types ever do any sort of research or thinking before posting your comments so that you don’t end up looking ridiculous? Honestly……as a one concerned human being to another, before freaking out, stop, then ask yourself this question, “Is what I’m about to say going to have any basis in reality?”, if the answer is yes then by all means freak out, but if the answer is no, for the love of god don’t embarass yourself, keep it off the table.
I agree that this episode is pretty good except for the naked thing.
Also, the part about Kataron not helping the Seelians, I would have to say because the Federation is already in the Middle East coercing the nations to give up their sovereignty, Kataron, being wanted terrorists, cannot march in with their mobile suits to aid the ‘victims’ of the Ion Cannon. Or Kataron could just be assholes.
The fact that the Gundams are being owned is a good thing IMO. To remind everyone of SEED, Strike Freedom was so haxed, it wasn’t even funny. Plus, the gundams being owned is in line with what has been shown. Season one, the gundams where being owned by 700 units with no GN Drive. They were owned by 3 Gundam Thrones, they were owned by 30 GN-X. And currently, there are 3 cruisers, 2 Innovator-Class Gundams, and maybe 10 Tau-Drive Mobile suits against FOUR Gundams.
I have to comment on the part where having the Ion Cannon would eradicate war once and for all is also a foolish idea. Vietnam is a good example, sure, the American’s had superior firepower, but against an guerrilla force (ie: kataron terrorist) firepower is pretty meaningless.
Yeah, I also agree that it was Haro who does the hax piloting, see Season 1 when Lockon (Neil) was sniping Haro would do the maneuvers.
Lastly, I want to say that the critical analysis of this blog is very… fresh. I watch gundam for the pewpewpew and during the episode or even after, I never spend the time to critically analyze what has happened. This blog does make me think about what is happening on the screen, though I usually don’t agree with every point you make.
Kaioshin: Gentlesir, you again take Crusader’s posts on Gundam 00 a tad more seriously than warranted. I’d thought that you’d have clued in by now that he’s looking at the series through the eyes of a soldier, Prussian fanboy, and student of literature, the former two really coloring opinion on a series that has idealistic *terrorists* as leads. If you’re looking for balanced views, this isn’t the right place.
@Jon_lui: Yes…..pwepewpewpew. Curious that that still sounds about as much like the sounds of battle in a Gundam series as the president of the Earth Federation resembles Barack Obama…….Anyway, the way I see it, the MM has a greater chance of creating more conflict actually. Think about it, destruction of property will lead to further resentment of the Earth Federation on the part of those affected by it, thus creating the type of atmosphere in which terrorists thrive. In a way the EF/A-LAWS/Innovators are becoming the primary propagator of this latest conflict (though Kataron isn’t entirely innocent) and this revelation lends some justification to CB’s resistance and grudge against the group, whereas before they didn’t really have one in the same was as Kataron did. After all, Celesital Being’s simple yet practical creed is that they go after the primary aggressor of a given conflict. Previously Celestial Being’s battle against the A-LAWS and EF had been my biggest misgiving, because I didn’t really understand why they were fighting against the organization they more or less created that watched over a united humanity.
That’s not to say the cannon necessarily justifies CB’s previous actions against the EF/A-LAWS, but that it will serve to at least lend reason to any future action they take against them, and of course I still don’t think Celestial Being is looking at the bigger picture here, whereas Ribbons has that viewpoint down pat. I would imagine that that will have to come up at some point, but at least they have a reason however simplistic for not only existing, but for being a part of this conflict. That works for me.
Now the real challenge begins, finding a place for Marina in this story. I can think of several scenarios in which she could have a decent role to play in all of this, but right now as people keep ragging on Saji who has more than done enough to find a role to play in all of this over the past seven or so episodes, I find myself disliking this character more and more and feeling that she’s ultimately going to prove to be the weakest link in the grand scheme of things. This from a character who has been in the series since pretty much the first episode, yet has had less impact on the overall story than the two characters that everybody though were going to be pointless. I’m talking about Saji x Louise again of course.
And while I’m on this subject of characters and their purposes, it’s alright Saji haters, you can stop living in that fantasy land of your’s where he’s still wallowing in his self-pity and is completely useless. Would you kindly look up now, and you’ll see that he’s been helping out around the Ptolemaios for like the past 5 episodes without so much as peep of his former idealism about conflict as a universal evil. I also have to give him credit for showing how completely oblivious of their own words and reasons for disliking him some of his critics can be, proving once again that it is the act of and not the reason for bashing that seems to be the primary motivator for most people. The 180 reversal of certain people bashing him for being a layabout complainer to bashing him for now doing what he can, yet the reflection always being of the bashing variety, I think it perfectly reveals the mindset of these individuals, the kind that is in turn reflected in the Yahtzee quote that blind_dead_mcjones so kindly shared with us.
Oh single-minded Gundam 00 bashers who do nothing but complain, you’re the real stars and are probably just jealous and bitter that Saji has made something of himself while you’re all still stuck in your ways. For while Gundam 00 can bring the lulz and is far from perfect, it is your incoherent ragings that are the lulziest thing of all. Bravo! Can I please get an encore performance some time in the future with….I don’t know, Tieria or Setsuna’s motivations should they go through some sort of makeover throughout the course of the remaining episodes.
@Myssa Rei: Point still stands regardless. Would you rather read a whole string of posts agreeing with everything here like there is any degree of seriousness, relevance and accuracy to it, or have just one that points out for everybody that maybe there’s something missing as far as serious criticism goes?
@Myssa Rei: And if I were looking for serious views the entire blogosphere really isn’t the place to go looking for it, however I am of the belief that there are always other options and ways to make the most of something that is seemingly stagnant. In other words I enjoy a challenge.
Perhaps you might look at it like this. In a venue where the absurd is the norm, yet the absurd is still somehow governed by guidelines of expected commentary, or as others like to call them, “memes”, and to a person who lives life as if it were one big practical joke after another and where the expected is the greatest lifesucking bore of all (aka me), the biggest joke to be played, the most fun to be had, the only truly freewheeling and unpredictable scenario that can occur, and the greatest challenge of them all, is the creation of a scenario in which the serious is injected into the absurd without regard for the expected set of reactions, responses or…..memes that normally dictate what is supposed to happen next or how one is supposed to respond.
For only at this point have your truly reached that point of utter bliss where you never know what might happen next.
There may have been ‘naked sequences’ in the Newtype-based UC series… but this is kinda getting to be somewhat ridiculous, especially since, unlike the previously quoted Zeta Gundam, we’re not even dealing with Newtypes or Cyber-Newtypes anymore. And somehow Saji AND Setsuna ended up sharing Quantum Brainwaves with Louise (or something). And with no signs to point to the ability in Setsuna, much less Saji… and even less explanation than we’d seen in the Cosmic Era-based SEED series (where at least we could attribute it to a stress-induced delusion or some sort of extrasensory ability granted by the
NewtypeCoordinator gifts).If this is a GN-particle related ‘gift’, then other pilots among the A-LAWS (and Soma herself) should’ve been demonstrating this ability earlier unless it had SPECIFICALLY to do with the O-Raizer being introduced, in which case other pilots in the general area should’ve been affected as well. If it’s because “Setsuna and Saji are the main characters, and need to give Louise something more to angst over”… well, they could’ve done this better. And less less Setsuna x Saji nudity; you’d almost think they were pandering to the fujoshi by setting up a situation for h-doujins involving the O-Raizer’s and 00’s pilots…
Plus, they’re doing a rather poor job trying to make Kataron, CB, and the ‘good guys’ look sympathetic; especially after how Ginin revealed that his fiancee/wife was a casualty of the terrorists that A-LAWS and the Federation are chasing after, and which Jihad-kun and company are supporting. The kids weren’t used well (bringing in a fat kid asking about wanting more rice doesn’t exactly evoke the same sort of sympathetic response that a small, skinny kid would), Seel’s aftermath wasn’t exactly showing a smoking ruin that had a lot of apparent civilian casualties, and then trotting out that fleet of spacecraft and mobile suits from a poor/oppressed country did little to make me feel that the Federation had done the wrong thing… unless spaceships are cheaper to construct than houses or food processing sites, which I find hard to believe.
If this is supposed to make both sides look ambiguous… it’s still not doing all that well – yes, they’ve shown the Federation has its good points, and stability along with safety for the civilians, but it hasn’t shown how Kataron’s people were supposedly doing better despite being free of the Federation’s influences and CB/Kataron aren’t upstanding examples of virtue and heroism.
Even SEED Destiny did a better job of showing the crew of the Minerva, who supported genocidial Coordinator fascist-wannabe Dullindal in a better light than 00 has with the crew of the Ptolemaios. At least they appeared to have good intentions, or at least sufficient brainwashing so they wouldn’t bat an eye at what was effectively a plan for mass-murder and genetic determinism along the lines of Plato’s Republic.
Now that that’s all said and done, I admit that I’ve gone too far in trying to stir the pot and that I got more than a little carried away, so I apologize for that. Crusader, you’ve been pretty cool to me recently and I’ve kind of been a smug jerk these past couple weeks and it’s not really fair what I did here today. I’d rather us work towards being friends rather than enemies that are always arguing and beating each other over the head like cavemen (partially after considering your words a while back about a pathological need for enemies and my belief now that you really were stung by what I had said) so I apologize for playing games in your backyard again. We have a lot more in common then I even realized a few months back so I hope we can be cool? For real this time……and I’ll swear by that as far as my side of things goes.
Anyway, how’s Fallout 3 been going for you Crusader? And Myssa, have you considered that Xbox 360 yet?
I never ever liked the Newtype concept in Gundam, ever. Not saying it’s bad, but it’s not a selling point for me – just as ‘fold waves/spiritia energy’ isn’t what I go see Macross for.
I really wish they’d just be soldiers doing soldiery things, like fighting. I want the conflicts to be tactical and strategic, and less of the personal/internal. I want the characters to stop asking themselves ‘why do I fight?’, and I want them to ask themselves ‘how can I fight better?”
If this is an extended CM for toys, it could be done much better IMO. I could really get into hardcore rock vs. paper vs. scissors technology/tactical considerations (keeping Seravee away from fast melee suits, use of GN particles, etc., Trans-Am management protocols). Instead we get lots of ‘magic’ in the form of ‘SEED mode’, Newtype, etc.
That said, the rivalry between the strategic forecasters is a welcome diversion. It’s probably what I enjoy most these days.
ghostlightning: You are looking for 08 MS Team, in that case. That was probably the closest Gundam to what you were thinking of – soldiers doing soldierly things, having to improvise as their Gundams got bogged down or broken and they were on the ass-end of the supply chain, fighting thoughtfully, and figuring out where they’d screwed up in an effort to improve their performance.. well, coupled with a love story, but still. That or maybe the IGLOO OAVs.
Kaiohshin: Well, not as much stirring the pot, but I’d rather let Crusader’s angry ravings on *some* of the shortfalls of the episode run its course. The soldier in him will always see at the inconsistencies with how the factions are portrayed, AND by extension make him more sympathetic to the ‘grunts’ doing their jobs rather than the ‘protagonists’, who also happen to be idealistic terrorists that outwardly look like they’re trying to sabotage a good thing.
Crusader: That said, it’s important to realize that SUNRISE writers are very likely NOT Political Science majors (as many realized with the first season), nor do they have backgrounds in Military tactics and history. For the experts and those really in the know, the portrayal will of course seem half-arsed, the tactics not make sense, and characters will look like they’re making dubious battlefield decisions (I’m looking at you Sumeragi).
Urgh, migraine. No more blog drama for me.
With the decreasing hours of sleep I’ve had in the past few days, I’ll be hard-pressed to coherently present my points about this episode, so I’ll just nod with Heasslich’s observations while I come up with ways to save my remaining braincells.
Disappearing Audio Device, how I loathe thee! Curse you for impinging on my already premium sleep hours.
Crusader, Haesslich, Kaioshin: XBOX 360 is well beyond my means, but on the bright side, I have a (sort of) new PC on the way, that’ll tide me over for another four years.
I WANTED TO SEE HALLE RAEPING. WHY SUNRISE, WHY. D:
*coughs* this episode was both boring and weird. 99% of the audience knew that Ginin was gonna die the moment they showed that photo. And not even fangirls appreciate the nakkidness of those two fags. And much less if it’s in that ridiculous mahou shoujo transformation scenario.
Srsly 00, start giving us some real plot and action plz. I adore this series and follow it religiously every week, but the lack of Mr. Bushido and this weird fanservice thingies (except for the shower; it’s amusing how Tieria’s hair’s length changed magically after the previous ep XD) are kicking me out. Plz Sunrise, you still have time to make it better for everyone.
And yeah, the Innovators have something with the Irish. Can’t blame them though.
@Haesslich:
Tsk, tsk, tsk, I really expected better from you of all people Haesslich and I hope you aren’t just falling in line with the crowd now.
With regard to your first and second paragraph, the newtypesque sequence was the post-credit teaser and if this is truly going to become the nitpick of the week as it seems it is fast becoming I think we should establish a few things.
First, the “nitpick of the week” (TM) is that one aspect of an episode that usually takes up less than a minute of it’s screen time, has little to do with the overall events of the episode as a whole (this newtypesque thing is the perfect candidate since it’s like all of 1 minute in the bloody post credits at best that is now being treated like the key event that happened in the episode), is pretty much always something that wasn’t really handled as poorly as it’s made out to have been, and is usually misrepresented and totally warped in it’s true meaning for the rest of the series by the time the nitpicking is all over, thus ensuring that people will have the bizzarest recollection of what actually went on in earlier episodes. Lovely thing isn’t it? That being established, let’s carry on.
Second is that the purpose of the scene was to act as a teaser and thus any sort of clear explanation as to how it ties into the next episode or what truly happened would serve as a spoiler. Wetting the viewers appetite was the goal here, not explaining how GN Particles make people have visions, that comes later. If that didn’t happen with you then whatever, but that was the goal.
Third, obviously it has something to do with the saturation of GN particles given off by the 0 Raizer as this is the second time it happened in two episodes, and the only time it has happened period was when the 0 Raizer was active. Why would you even question that or try to make it out like a continuity error when it’s clearly not? Especially since it has been confirmed that the Innovators use GN particles in order to interface with Veda and to communicate with one another telepathically. The how remains to be explained of course.
Fourth, I think it’s important to note that this “newtype” reaction might be something entirely different then anything we’ve seen in other Gundam series, no matter how familiar it seems, and that it is foolish to make any assumptions about it’s nature until the pseudo-science behind it has been established. After all, you are very same person that warned me about the dangers of correlating the causes and effects of pseudo-science in one Gundam series with another back in the episode 07 thread, wherein you also warned me that we shoudldn’t assume how GN particles work until the creators themselves explain it. Don’t go back on that with me now just so you can find a new way in which to criticize the show.
Now, with the part about the CB/Kataron/A-LAWS dynamic and the ambiguity of their goodness versus evil, I think you’ve really only pointed out the obvious, that the A-LAWS have some good people in them, whereas Kataron isn’t exactly doing all they can to make life any better for people than the EF. I don’t know where you got the idea that they are trying to make Kataron necessarily look any better, considering they’ve portrayed it’s members as being fairly shady and self-interested (mostly in their own survival) when the shit hits the fan for quite a while now. I think there’s a little confusion yet again here between the series goals and your ideas for what it should be doing.
As for your last paragraph, humour me, how exactly is Seed Destiny’s Minerva crew blindly following Dullindal a better handled scenario then the Ptolemy crew debating whether it is they or the Innovator’s who are truly in the right? Cause if you ask me, asking some questions about what you are doing is a much more believable, realistic and well-handled scenario, and not to mention one that is much more fleshed out and interesting. Really, I don’t understand where you are coming from at all with this one and it seems to spring from that all to common rush to judgement that is the belief that all successive series in a franchise are worse then the ones before them without bothering to account for the luxury the previous ones have of being finished.
And please for the love of god can everybody stop plugging the damn overrated 08th MS Team and stop using it to knock down other Gundam series already. Especially since it’s not really all that great nor does it live up to it’s potential. Really, just please stop pretending it’s so absolutely amazing and flawless compared to the oh so “horrible” Gundam 00.
It’s flaws are clear as day, I mean look:
- Shiro goes through an incredibly sudden and forced change of heart near the 3/4 mark of the series from a soldier into this pacifist who suddenly wants everyone to stop fighting. All because he spent one night in a hot spring with Aina. I mean can you get just a little more cliche dating sim style in your character development then that?
- It stops focusing on the grunt soldier aspect by the halfway point at the latest and starts focusing on the cobbled together love story between Shiro and Aina, the action is still there, but they’ve lost that whole grunt soldier style portrayal of things.
- Shiro never really learns anything from his experiences and is still seen charging off ahead of everyone and getting into sticky situations whilst making decision based off of his feelings instead of his head well into the final episodes. I have no idea what you are talking about with regard to characters learning from their experiences, but maybe you ought to go watch the series again as the learning aspect has far more to do with the team learning to trust Shiro as a leader despite how often he manages to let them down.
- Ginneas is as one dimensional a villain as they come. His sole driving force as a character is the completion of the Apsalus. In fact that might as well be his character in it’s entirety. Thank god for Norris as a rival.
- The last episode frankly blows something fierce, though if you truly want to see something that fits in akwardly with everything that came before it and goes all “BOO! NEWTYPES AND ANNOYING CHILDREN OUT OF THE BLUE”, then never mind Gundam 00, by all means go ahead and watch the final episode of the 08th MS Team as it is the finest example of it in any Gundam series.
- That whole “BOO OUT OF NOWHERE!” aspect goes for the series as a whole actually with regard to the sudden changes in the focus of the story it exhibits. The core theme must change at least once every three or so episodes. 1-3 is pretty much the only part that is actually about coming to grips with the reality of being a grunt MS soldier. 4-6 it’s all about taking down the Apsalus and it becomes about the MA technology and Feddy/Zeon politics, 7-9 it’s now a romance about pacifism and the belief that love somehow conquers all and the “evils” of the military system for keeping lovers apart (which makes it seem strange why Crusader likes it so much as it’s pretty much one of the most in your face series with regard to criticizing the military), and then 10-12 it’s a clusterfuck of all of the above.
Conclusion: It all could have probably benefited from at least another 13 episodes to allow things to transition better into each successive arc and guess what, it still has all of those things that people love to bitch at Gundam 00 over, it’s just people don’t realize it because it’s cool to like 08th MS Team.
Myssa Rei: I linked to the drivers in someone’s blog for Episode 11 of Kannagi. Go there.
Kaioshin: This was STILL a clumsy way to do things – especially since they had to drag out extra nudity on the part of the male cast (who are already raising charges of ‘fujoshi bait’, like the Code Geass boys). And it definitely was reminiscent of the SEED ‘naked glowing person’ scenes… which was not a pleasant reminder of that series, even if they had more justification there (like Fllay appearing to Kira after he went to pieces yet another time).
The GN particles may affect people’s minds – we’ve seen what they can do to Allelujah/Hallelujah… and you’ve stated that this was how the link to the Veda interface worked for the Innovators. However, the whole telepathic component has been limited in every instance we’ve seen to Innovators and people who have been very specifically enhanced (Soma, the Innovators, maybe Louise) – and we have yet to see signs either Saji or Setsuna are so modified, and Setsuna should’ve shown symptoms of this earlier if it was directly linked to simple exposure to GN particles, given that his last two rides spread them like mad during Trans Am mode.
As for your charges of shoddy science, I will quote myself in that post:
Nowhere did I say this was the same as a Coordinator’s gifts (in fact, I made it abundantly clear that Kira’s vision of glowing naked Fllay was likely a stress-caused hallucination if it wasn’t some sort of super-ESP that his rewired brain could tap in times of stress), or lack of – merely that this sudden manifestation of ‘naked dream world communications’ between three individuals (two of which are definitely unenhanced) has yet to have any demonstrated precursor events/technology in-series. Note that I qualified the supposition with “if this is GN particle related” – I said nothing like ’since it IS GN particle related, therefore’; and that you were the one who brought up the Veda interface/GN particle link.
But this episode (and the few preceding it) have been very, VERY clumsy when it comes to justifying the ‘good guys’ position (Kataron and CB) stand against the ‘bad guys’ (the Federation) – every thing they’ve tried to elicit sympathy in me as a viewer has backfired; ‘oppressed freedom fighters’ who are both starving and yet somehow field more ships and mobile suits than some nation-states possess, an overweight kid complaining about being hungry despite having come from a country where poverty and starvation had been a big issue for years, and refugee children looking both well-fed and well-dressed despite having been in the middle of a war which had turned their surroundings to Gundam 00’s version of Somalia, an enemy state (the Federation) whose population appears to be less oppressed than the ones the ‘freedom fighters’ are defending, and the firing of the big orbital gun appears to have done less damage than we’d have expected for an unjustified strike against an innocent population. Like I said earlier, if they’re going to be showing someone as ‘evil’, I don’t want them to pull any punches, as they have done again and again with the lack of civilian casualties, visible or not, especially with such a selective strike using the orbital death ray that supposedly took out an enemy capitol and a distinct absence of bodies from a Prince Ali-led killing spree from a few eps earlier when he was taking over a certain country.
As I complained earlier, what was the director’s goal here? Was it to show the Federation as the big evil, a la the Duchy of Zeon? Or was it to be a more balanced view which showed both sides fought because of merely differences in ideology, with nobody being a paragon of virtue for the most part (a la the original Macross)? Here you have characters in CB talking about how evil and oppressive the Federation is, and yet in comparison to those people CB supports they seem to be cleaving closer to the ideas that CB espouses except for the abolition of war by any means – including absolute force to impose peace on the world… which is what the Federation is doing, and also what Celestial Being is about (remembering that their original goal was to stop war by eliminating the weapons nations used to fight one another). If the Kataron arc (and the human shield angle) was designed to make me sympathize solely with CB while seeing some of the A-LAWS as human (as Ginin showed when he defended Louise’s right to be fighting alongside them, or Katie’s message to Sumeragi an episode ago)… it didn’t quite work out. You may not agree, but as a political piece I found it much better in the first six or so episodes as far as the portrayal of such a world went (like Sergei letting Exia escape without attempting capture after Setsuna stabilized that orbital segment).
From what I can tell, the only person who’s really questioning the way events are unfolding (now) is Ms. Wang – she showed some regret while Nena was cheering on the whole situation that the Innovators provoked. Goodman is a cardboard cutout standing in as a villain (”We can wipe them all out! Nyah-ha-ha! How deliciously evil I am!”), with only Allelujah of all the Gundam pilots seeming to question the Innovator’s methods. Setsuna seems not to be thinking very hard at all, and Saji’s… well, I don’t even pretend to know if he is thinking, much less what he’s thinking. Marina Ismail doesn’t even seem to be aware of the world outside of that nursery since she lost her country to someone else, and the idea that she could be in a position where she couldn’t even pretend to be in charge of a country doesn’t seem to have ever occured to her… which may be why she’s immersed herself so deeply in the daycare, where she can run things to some extent.
If the director wanted to show ‘absolute evil uses absolute weapons’, SEED and SEED Destiny were better at showing the ‘absolute evil’ parts with Patrick Zala and Dulindal, although for an ‘evil society’ we’d have to go back to Victory Gundam’s Zanscare Empire for its militaristic bent and penchant for capital punishment. At the very least, I could muster up more sympathy for everyone but Shinn earlier on in Destiny, especially since the Earth Alliance was so ‘obviously evil’ with its employment of the Destroy Gundam and its earlier efforts in the pre-emptive strike on civilian colonies (Bloody Valentine Incident, the attempted nuking of PLANT towards the end of the first war) along with the general anti-Coordinator fear which fed the prejudices that made that war bloodier. Here, the Federation as a whole comes off much more mildly as far as ‘the enemy’, especially given how CB had psychos like Nena and the other Thrones in its employ in the first season and is allied with what could be euphemistically called “rogue nations” in the second who seem to prioritize weapons systems over civilian welfare.
Beyond that, say what you will about 08 MS Team, but in the early episodes it was quite decent, especially as a portrayal of ‘realistic’ Earth-based battles and team tactics, even if the love story got ham-handed towards the end… sorta like Ep 7 of 00 S2, which was a bit more compressed than the last few episodes of MS Team.
Myssa: Someone’s ToraDora 13 post had the link, sorry.
http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/misc/audio/sis7012/s71216xp.zip – the drivers for your sound card.
@Haesslich: Well see, now that’s more direct and less generalized and I’m actually seeing a lot of the same things you are as well and sharing some of your concerns, yet a part of me wonders if the confusion is not being created deliberately. I’m not like the people here though, I can’t just instantly pass judgement and go “crap” until I’ve seen the entirety of something. I also still refuse to believe that this series is the worst Gundam series ever and find any such notion ludicrous and based solely in the newest=worst school of thought.
Alright, so now you’ve given us your thoughts about what was lacklustre about this episode, but there’s more than an abundance of that here, saturation beyond that of the GN particles in this episode of 00. Why everybody only ever chooses to share their misgivings here I will never understand and I still think it creates a boring predictable read when it’s always the same Sunrise screwed this or that up type commentary…..they make mistakes like any human, but you know it’s as if the people here want me to believe they can never do a single solitary thing right EVER. Bullshit I say.
I believe you are not one of those types however, so if you will kindly share with me something you thought was good about the episode, something that was well handled then I’ll be on my way. Give me something fresh…..
Nuts, lost the whole comment hours ago after firefox crashed, sorry in advance if I missed any of you.
@Myssa Rei
Oh poor comrade Calawain lost his sight after seeing the last scene, let’s hope he regains his eyesight in time for his last final.
I agree Jihad-kun and Saji showed no signs of special powers before, and it was rather abrupt in how they developed such powers from GN Particles. Sad to see that because they are Super Special that they get newtype powers every time they dock…Freud would have a field day with this.
Thanks for trying to mediate and pointing out to Kaioshin that the summary is full of innuendo, half truths, and bald faced lies. You are right though I cannot identify with such terrorists. I know the staff aren’t experts, but hiring even one poorly paid consultant would have helped, you’d think they find one history nut or political nut amongst their number, but it seems that their dedication pales somewhat in comparison to Kojima and the MGS team. Still even if they aren’t experts or enthusiasts, they still do some rather questionable things the GN Pixie dust induced newtype powers being the latest offense. Overall GN Pixie dust has been used to justify a bit too much IMHO.
As for a new computer, I don’t know computer tech has usually out paced consoles and you have to do more with settings and installation. That being said Steam is a good saving grace for the PC, and thankfully RTS games like CoH are better on a PC setup any way. As for sleep deprivation, just suck on coffee grinds or Tabasco to stay awake and relatively alert. If you have access to NoDoze, it’s your friend…
@ Kururu
I missed that, thanks, now I can see why Saji was not turned to paste on his first sortie in his miserable life, ALL HAIL RED HARO!
@ Highman
Glad to see that I am not alone in taking a trip down memory lane this time of year, but please give 8th MS Team a chance along with G Gundam. Finally, ZEON IS EXHAUSTED!
@ Jarmel
Indeed no one seemed to be saddened by Memento Mori at all…
Louise must never go back to the kitchen, unless it is to make her own meal or that of Soma’s the more Louise pilots the better she will be than those loser CB pilots. The better pilot Louise becomes the sooner she can rescue Soma, and then there will be much rejoicing!
@ Ian K
If CB were pirates they’d at least be cool.
An apt comparison as Goodman did wipe them out for their sins, now if he could only get that burning bush thing right…
Even in places where there is freedom of the press, there is always censorship of some sort whether or not that is all bad is for each one of us to decide for ourselves.
@ lilu
At least Ginin died in the line of duty, like a real man and did not shrink at the sight of Gundam 00 Raiser.
Don’t you say that about Patrick the power of his love for Katie can overcome death itself. Patrick is way better than that loser Emilio, I bet Emilio died on his first mission, while the Immortal Colasour has survived time and again against overwhelming odds.
@Excalibaa1!
Another comrade goes down memory lane, but again please give 8th MS Team and G Gundam a shot.
@Soulstrider
Red Haro piloted the damn ting Saji just sat back and screamed…
The minute Ginin mentioned a dead fiancé we all knew that his time was up… we had hoped other wise but so passes Captain Ginin.
CB’s new meat shield was never anticipated, but they served their purpose…
@jonn
ALL HAIL RED HARO!
@blind_dead_mcjones
I think Ginin underestimated or rather had no idea how fast Gundam 00 raiser would be, up until that point Ginin was tying down Gundam 00 nicely. Maybe next time Hal will feel like coming out to play with Marie…
Ben “yahtzee” Croshaw also highlighted the other pitfall when people make a game for their own sake rather than for the player’s case in point Too Human. Saji did little more than let Red Haro pilot, and sit in the back trying not to puke when Jihad-kun was pulling high Gs. I hardly call that improvement, and unless Saji does something unexpected I anticipate that much crying on his part will occur net week. What’s the point of doing some good and then falling back on old habits? One step forward and three steps back isn’t what I would call progress comrade.
@Square
I’d rather have Louise avenge Ginin, though Bob will do, and failing that Ali certainly will. Considering it took so much just to take out Ginin, he came off pretty well considering he was just a grunt.
@Dark messiah
Ginin died a hero.
Freud would have had a field day with this one to say the least.
Patrick living was most welcome though the last scene broke the episode. Crotch shots were most unwelcome as well.
May Andrei do whatever it takes to remind Louise that her mission is to save Soma, and kill the traitor Saji who has sided with the murderers of her family.
@jon_lui
The lower power level is most welcome, but there are times when CB gets new toys that the balance shifts it all back to square one.
Don’t doubt peace is impossible by wiping out the other side, after all the Mongols did it more than once. Moreover it is only social norms that make genocide a crime, it can be very effective in the short term. The Vietnam conflict was a struggle for a variety of reasons, but had there been nuclear annihilation of the North, the US could very well have won, though what use is a parking lot of glass is up to each of us to decide.
@Kaioshin
Look, by the time I started watching the sub and writing the post I had just finished a 12 hour shift, watching the live stream made me displeased at how the last scene was done, watching it subbed did not change my opinion that it was simply inconsistent. Saji and Jihad-kun had shown no hints of any quantum brainwaves, and now after GN Particle exposure they do. Even the effects on quantam brainwave users was uneven as neither Soma nor Haptism was affected as greatly as that and even for the latter when using Trans-Am. It was little more than a way to show that Louise that Saji was her enemy. That is what sunk the episode for me. I never said that this one sucked because Ginin died, or that Saji met Louise again, both were inevitable, in the case of the latter it was simply awful in my opinion.
As Myssa Rei has tried to point out I am not doing an objective review here, the summary itself is a litany of lies, the quotes at the top should have tipped you off that the summary was a farce and has been since day one. It’s a half truth and I don’t see much point in telling people what they saw again, when they probably have seen the episode already. I am no English, or Literature major, my specialty is not criticism, it is in weapons, bacteria, viral agents, and toxins of all kinds. I have tried to tell you that this is not the place for a solid review that one would find in Newtype magazine. I am not a professional, and I refuse to pretend to be objective when I am not, as it runs contrary to my principles on professionalism.
Sunrise is free to do what it wants, but I will call it when it seems that there are inconsistencies and objectionable developments that are poorly foreshadowed (Saji and Jihad-kun’s new found powers for one). Moreover I will mercilessly dissect the tactics that they use and call into question precisely how good Sumeragi is as she has been underwhelming for some time, besides I am a wargamer after all it’s what I do for fun. Once again my sympathies have always been with grunts like Ginin, the Feddies, and the A-Laws because of my profession which is essentially the same. You ask me to sympathize with terrorists with great ideals but of questionable competence and understanding of what it is that they are doing. I tell you again I cannot and probably never will, like Haesslich says Kataron and CB have not demonstrated that what they hope to achieve is any better than what the Feddies have already done, as far as I can tell the Federation is a more utilitarian entity with attached Knight Templars who are willing to do black bag operations to protect it. That isn’t all that different from most nations today. Even in the context of the Gundam Universe almost every faction to date has used WMDs in one form or another, so after so many series it’s not as shocking or as appalling as it has become standard. In CB and Kataron they say they are fighting for a better world, but so do all terrorists. However Kataron’s results have been piss poor, Azadistan which was independent was a hell hole, they had money to buy weapons and attack the Feddies, but none to spare for the starving population, this to me is rather disingenuous and doesn’t make me want to sympathize with them much at all. Lastly they seem to be trying to get us to sympathize with Kataron through their day care center, which seems like an obvious ploy and an insipid meat shield tactic too.
CB seems to be hardly thinking much at all since they did not even discuss the issue of the Innovators, they just tabled it, declared that they were right, and left it at that. Not much of a debate, and if Sumeragi were up to snuff she would like to know all that Tieria knows about these Innovators, such as quantum brainwave communications, and possibly of hacked VEDA tracking an unsuspecting Tieria.
I don’t demand that you like Ginin, but please let me send off those I feel are honored dead without much fuss. I never said Gundam 00 sucked because Ginin died, it sucks that he died, but I did say I was pleased that it took Gundam 00 Raiser to finally take him down as Jihad-kun’s skills were never up to snuff. I sympathized with Ginin because I was able to identify with the Grunt Captain who protected his men and cared little for the political intrigue that was going on, like a typical soldier een if he is aware he sees little point in complain about politics as usual. His loyalty was to his dead friends, fiancé, the men under his command, and himself. He did not waste his time or ours by droning on about his problems or about righteousness in war where there is little if any righteousness to be found. To you he may be one dimensional, but just because he’s not telling you about his bitches, moans, or complaints doesn’t mean we have to dislike him. On the contrary because he doesn’t have much to say he hardly ever offends. I like grunts like Ginin, it stems from a love of Gundam 0083 where the immortal 4th Team was kicking Zeon ass with mass produced suits. For a time that spirit was rekindled in Ginin. He only had his skills and his Ahead to fall back on, considering how many upgrades it took jihad-kun to finally take down Ginin, Ginin came off better for it.
As for naked Newtypes in UC, as annoying as it was I forgave it all since it hardly showed up again in later Gundams in the UC continuity, unless of course memory is failing me and Char’s Counterattack had it too. I confess I don’t own all of UC, only 8th MS Team, the Gundam Movies, 0080, and 0083. I plan on watching Zeta for the first time in a long time now that I can get it on DVD since my friend who had it has long since moved away. I plum forgot about that blemish in Zeta (its been almost 10 years since I saw the dub, go ahead laugh it might have been censored too), I’d thank you for reminding me but to be honest I despise how you made me remember again (even if vaguely)…ever since Gundam 00 started all I seem to remember fondly is Yazan, and to a lesser degree Jerrid. SEED I remember because I can remember a grudge far better than anything else.
Keep in mind there is nothing wrong with a large number of people agreeing, lord knows most of us hated Star Wars Episode I-III, many of us believe that Han shot first, and even more of us think that Midi-chlorians were a terrible idea. That said Shiro did not succeed in forcing his peace on everyone else, he tried to after his commanders treated him with suspicion and laughed at him for being an idealist. Shiro did however have the good sense to make his own peace with Aina and withdrew from the cycle of conflict. 8th MS Team was short and sweet, most of it fit in contrast to the rather abrupt change from Soma to Marie. Furthermore Shiro was using his head more times than most other Gundam Pilots, he did hand command over to Eledore after all, and was trying to plan an ambush and he did do a whole lot more recon before acting than other pilots. That to me makes Shiro different enough, besides he was the oldest protagonist to date, and for that alone he stands out above the rest. I think 8th MS Team may have started the love of Gundam or at least reinforced it during the days of 56k and limited availability of torrents and what not. Back then DVDs for Wing were 30 USD a pop and getting all that for subs was an expensive proposition. The OVAs were cheaper to collect. For all it’s flaws though it was unique and for that it is loved, also Inoue Kikuko made Aina sound lovely. Let’s not forget that Shiro did discover the best and most innovative use of a beam saber in all of Gundam. Besides you always remember your first. Pacing for a 13 ep OVA was pretty good all things considered.
Fallout 3 is over and done with, going to start Chrono Trigger for the DS soon, but might get side tracked by Banner of the Stars in glorious 1080p thanks to my brother’s under used PS3.
@Haesslich
Indeed Newtypes belong to UC, but they seem to have infiltrated their way back in, let’s hope that this latest instance of GN induced Newtype powers was a fluke, or that we get a better explanation for it, preferable the former though. Overall I don’t think we’re going to get any real explanations let alone very good ones regarding GN pixie dust. This stuff is more amazing than oxyclean, it even prevents decompression from a shot that punched through all the decks.
As far as WMD use goes this was a lot less graphic than previous instances, but then again I have seen too many colony drops to feel much of anything at a WMD in Gundam. I am glad I am not alone in finding the use of kids in Kataron to be rathe counter productive and laughable at how the poster child for Seel is a fat kid amongst starving children. For a group that is trying to make a better world, I can’t see why Kataron can’t start in their own backyard. Maybe they never heard of Eisenhower’s warnings about building a military industrial complex…or more likely they just ignored it. Still Ginin having a fiancé was better played that Seelian fat kid wanting more food…
I really don’t think we needed to see crotch shots even if there was a precedent… I am sure some one out there liked it, that person just wasn’t me.
In regards to GSD they were all idiots…
@ghostlightning
I second Comrade Haesslich’s recommendation on 8th MS Team, for one other reason. There are no newtypes, just a bunch of bad ass normals, and some plain normals.
@Yamila
We all anticipate the return of Bushido Bob to the front, let’s hope he’s not Acre late again.
Someday hal will come out and play with Marie, then things will be very different.
@Crusader: Hahahaha, okay, now some of what you said was both funny and clever, possibly even made my night. Anyway, I liked Ginin’s character a lot and felt he lent a fair bit of humanity to the A-LAWS side of the characters. However, I think it’s important to also recognize the humanity in the CB characters and the reasons for why they take up their side of the cause, though as a soldier you might not agree.
I think that most of their reasons for fighting are justifiable, but that they are fighting the wrong enemy in the A-LAWS, who for the most part come across as good people who have been given a dirty job to do. Again the enemy is being portrayed as war here I think, it kills people like Barack’s wife, Lyle’s family and Sumeragi’s fiance and turns otherwise good people who should be allies against one another (Saji and Louise, Sumeragi and Katie, Allelujah and Marie for a time), and the grand orchestrators of the majority of the key characters sufferings (including many on the A-LAWS side) are currently working with and indeed are the Innovators, not the A-LAWS. I’m thinking that’s one of the reasons why CB should be fighting and hope that Tieria’s revelation will help set their focus on the right target in the coming episodes and maybe if Sumeragi really is smart enough she could send a message to Katie like Katie did to her asking if they could talk in private or something so that they can share what they know about the Innovators with her and try to gain her trust. Though I think Kataron isn’t helping matters in their constant poking and prodding of A-LAWS and the feds.
They might not know about the Innovators, but I still think Kataron have shown themselves to be the least sympathetic of the three factions and that perhaps if they had at least considered trying Federation citizenship instead of taking up arms against them before it came to this then things wouldn’t be as bad for them as they currently are. They need to ask themselves this question, has anything they’ve done since the series began helped make their’s or their countryman’s life any better. I think anything other than a no is not an honest answer. Anyway if this is what Sunrise was going for with them, portraying them as a group of misguided idealists (the odd faction out if you will) then I think they have succeeded, otherwise indeed it could be classified as poor characterization.
There is no “believe” in the fact that Han shot first, it just is. I’ve gotta be honest though, I bloody hate Star Wars now. I used to like it well enough, but now Lucas has succesfully turned it into a children’s franchise with dialogue so shallow it makes the lines that Sir Alec Guiness refused to say in A New Hope look like a Lincoln speech. To me Star Wars is pure blockbuster tripe at this point, and this belief has only been exarcebated in seeing how much more depth the last 3 Star Trek movies have had in comparison, even Nemesis which was the most blockbusterish of them all managed to explore the whole flock leaving the nest subplot it had going on with the Enterprise officers and the nature versus nurture theme that formed the crux of the film with Picard and Shinzon. What did the latest Star Wars film give us? Something something something darkside.
@ crusader,
i think his tying down of 00 led him into a false sense of security as unbekownst to him the 00 is by and large an untested prototype using a 200 year old technology concept which hasn’t even tried let alone implemented until now, when the 0-riser, which like any upgrade irons out the flaws present, came along and attached itself to the 00 he suddenly found himself in over his head.
though i must say setsuna are zinin are quite similar in terms of mindset, they both have little time for politics, they both lost something dear to them (granted setsunas loss was partialy self inflicted but bear with me) but rather than openly complain to anyone who’ll listen they sought to try and make a better tomorrow the only way they knew how, the difference being zinin enlisted in the military while setsuna got involed with CB instead
speaking of which i must point out that some are being harsh in regards to setsunas ‘lack of skill’ in season 2, do bear in mind that he has been in hiding for 4 years without piloting so it stands to reason that his piloting ability would degrade somewhat, given that his season 2 debut was in a knackered half-a mobile suit and the fact that he was wrestling with all kinds of gremlins present in the 00, he has been doing quite well as a pilot considering how the odds often aren’t in his favour.
in sajis defence it does take a lot of guts to withstand g forces that could potentially kill you, more so if your not a trained fighter pilot, he could’ve used the O-riser to flee the battlefield but he chose not to, instead he risked life and limb to help out someone in need, thats gotta count for something.
And this show just got a turn for the worse.
@Excalibaa1!
Another comrade goes down memory lane, but again please give 8th MS Team and G Gundam a shot.
Ahh I see, WIll do! theres a site that has ALL the gundamns available for live stream.
soldier Ginin, to bad they kill off the only other black guy brsides 00bama in the first 11 episodes. . . .
Kaioshitsama<—–Who the F**k is that guy?
@Kaioshin
Oh CB is very human inf fact, their stupidity is just simply legendary in my view, I hope now that Tieria has spilled the beans that they dig deeper rather than simply return to business as usual. Kataron is just something else, considering their actions so far I doubt they will be able to accomplish much of anything considering how their military industrial complex sucked out almost every dime they had instead of doing any good, the day care center has been botched, but who knows maybe they will stop using the fat kid as the poster child.
Lucas seems to be in his dotage these days, suffice to say I hope he’s done.
@blind_dead_mcjones
Ginin was over his head once Gundam 00 Raiser became complete, but up until then he had no intel and had no idea what it was capable of. At least he was able to lead his team into a scrap with Gundam 00 without much trouble, so I guess the man was learning and applying his experience in keeping Gundam 00 pestered from three directions.
Saji may have taken a step forward, but being a passenger is not in my mind a helpful contribution. I do admit though I am dreading the next ep because we all expect Saji to weep over his circumstances, that usually has been a low point for every ep that it has occurred.
If Jihad-kun was a dedicated pilot he would have found ways around that one way or another, mercenary work for Kataron was certainly in the cards, and I think that he could have used some time to hone his skills with a lesser mobile suit. His skills seem to have stagnated, and I hope that at some point he will not need new toys to go stack up against Bushido Bob. You have to admit though given how Bob has been kicking his butt for most of the time in an Ahead, it does make Jihad-kun look silly.
@Zentari
Hopefully they can turn it around a bit when Kataron’s 23 battlecruisers show up.
@Excalibaa1!
Have fun!
Those GN Particles are doing some crazy shit to these guys’ brain cells. I’m feeling a large tumor developing sometime in the near future.
Also, we finally get some sort of clue as to another meaning for 00…to infinity and beyond brothers!
Kaioshin: I’ve used those points in earlier posts, and I’m reiterating them since the conditions haven’t improved markedly… or for that matter, they haven’t really done anything to make anyone (save the dead) look all that much better. Ginin’s stoic devotion to duty and his squad stands out in comparison to the Thrones’ attitude towards the Meisters, or even the uncaring facade Tieria wore during the first season. And seriously… drawing a fat kid in the middle of a ’starving country’ makes it really hard to take that group seriously. Those incongruous bits were very obvious, and the way Kataron’s civilians lived (and the way their ‘defenders’ acted) are quite jarring in comparison to the Federation which seemed far more benign even as a weird cross between American Imperialism and EU-style ‘inclusiveness’. If this was a deliberate attempt to confuse the viewer, they did a really good job – I still have no clue what the director’s goal was in trying to paint the Kataron forces as ‘the good guys’, unless it was a (moderately) veiled cricism on American international policy, something which has been present in several anime productions in recent memory.
About the best part of the ep for me was Ginin’s portrayal and death – a soldier who does his duty, who watches out for those under him, and who tries to be rational and reasonable even when under stress. He’s been taking care of Louise and his other personnel to the best of his ability, even as he probably had more than enough reasons in his personal life to act in ways which would make him little more than a bloodthirsty psychotic like Ali Al-Saachez. He and Sergei represent the ‘common soldier’ in a better manner than most nameless (and some named) characters do, and you could sympathize with Ginin much better than you could with most of CB and Kataron – he had all the excuses in the world to become what Celestial Being and Kataron tagged the A-LAWS as – ‘bloody murderers’ – and seems to have refrained from it for the most part, despite having lost a wife to terrorism and losing squad members to Celestial Being’s attacks.
Overall, between the two crews we’ve seen (CB’s and the Federations’), the A-LAW for the most part are coming across as the most emotionally stable and likeable characters, perhaps because the director doesn’t seem to feel a need to make them monstrous sociopaths, and is willing to give them character development which doesn’t solely consist of deciding they’re on the wrong side and defecting. Even Soma/Marie’s ‘defection’ had less to do with her deciding that her beliefs were completely wrong and that she was working for ‘evil’ but that she’d simply had enough of fighting (as Marie). And Sergei’s response to this was admirable, as he seemed to want the best for his ‘daughter’ Soma and was willing to let her follow the path her conscience dictated.
Beyond that, did we REALLY need more ‘naked man dream shots’? Wouldn’t a simple Newtype flash or having them simply realize who was on the other side have done something similar? It would’ve been cheaper to animate, and personally I’d rather have seen more Louise getting restrained by someone who didn’t want her to go off half-cocked to that. Beyond that, the ‘naked dream people’ thing makes it almost inevitable that someone’ll draw comparisons to SEED/Destiny given how recent that show was and how some of the most climactic battles (and the opening credits) used that schtick of naked characters…. and of course the emo that usually came before or after the ‘naked dream person’ sequence.
Interesting thought occurred to me. Ok so Neil joined CB so he could fight the terrorist that robbed him of his family and normal childhood. Fair enough, I can see how joining a clandestine group to kill major military facilities and terrorist orgs could appeal to a guy like that. So what about Lyle? Why did he join a known terrorist group, Kataron, that targets civilians? Other than being a money grubbing mercenary, it makes no sense. He probably was living in Union or the EU at the time and both joined the Federation, so there’s no “they took our country” rhetoric for him.
I mean, obviously CB knew that he was part of Kataron when they sent Jihad-kun to recruit him. Why would they willingly want a terrorist that was part of an org that thought killing civilians was an ok way to force their agenda on others?
Hmmm… I guess he was a witness to A-Law’s “brutality” and thought, hey I want to go fight those guys, lets blow up a mall.
@Haesslich:
Okay, well here’s how I see it. The only reason people are confused about the factions is because for some reason they’ve decided to take everything Kataron is saying at face value. That they are good and that the Federation is evil. Of course they are going to claim that, it’s quite typical of resistance movements to portray themselves as allies of justice and the government that they are trying to bring down as an abomination. I don’t know why you or Crusader haven’t picked up on this aspect and I have to ask why you are just relying on the dialogue of a group of terrorists instead of thinking, “Gee, maybe Mishizuma wants us to evaluate for ourselves the degree to which each side has a just stake in this conflict and maybe he is deliberately showing us one side of the conflict at a time so that he can reveal another side later and make us think some more”. He’s already done it once with the introduction of the Innovators, and I would not be shocked if he does it several more times as the series goes on. I think Kataron refusing to help their allies in Seel and the presence of a fat kid who probably has more than most, and who should be more than thankful just to be alive frankly, complaining about the way things are should be a clear hint that Kataron is a lot more self-serving then they like others to think and that it’s possibly rubbing off on the civilians around the base.
So again if the people here really want to assume that Sunrise is trying to paint a totally black and white scenario and that they are fucking up by making the A-LAWS have decent people amongst them, and Kataron some low-lifes, then be my guest, but that’s simply not the case and it’s only going to lead to more confusion as the show wears on.
However, in my opinion the only real source of confusion here is that people seem to think that they are the director and that the way things are supposed to be going is that the A-LAWS are the clear cut supervillains and must commit murder and slaughter innocents at least once an episode in order for the show to have a “proper” and well done story, and that Celestial Being and Kataron are supposed to be the clear cut heroes who have no self-doubt in what they are doing whatsoever, and that because that isn’t happening that the show is failing or something. Yet nobody here is the director and the way they think a show should be progressing (Assumedly to their every whim. See my vision of Crusader’s Gundam 00 for what I’m guessing is what everyone here wants. And watch now somebody is going to try and get clever and try to claim that his version is the way it should be done like a good little groupthinker) is not necessarily what the real director has in mind. And I can guarantee you that if there’s a conflict between what you think should be happening and what the director is making happen then there’s a 99% chance that it’s you who has the wrong idea about the show, not the director who has access to future scripts and who planned it all to begin with.
Yet wait….what does that CB=Good, A-LAWS=Evil, no-inbetween scenario sound like….Gundam Seed Destiny much? So then people don’t want the show to be like Gundam Seed Destiny (no naked flying people, you know as if that’s automatically a reference to Seed Destiny), but they want the general structure of it’s conflict to play out exactly like Seed Destiny where whatever you see or hear from the characters is what you get (not the case for Gundam 00 so far) and where there’s no hidden meanings or different ways of looking at the same scenario. Lacus/Kira=right, Everyone Else=wrong, Gundam Seed Destiny’s style of conflict portrayal in a nutshell right there for everyone.
Yet I like that, I really do, it amuses me that when something barely relating to Gundam Seed such as a few characters having a vision comes up that people jump all over it, and yet they can’t even realize when something such as their own belief in how the show should be progressing directly correlates with Gundam Seed Destiny’s style of conflict portrayal. And people here wonder why I say they like to nitpick for the sake of nitpicking when they could be paying a little more attention to the show. A touch closed-minded if you ask me.
And yet, if you’d all just for one single second think in terms of the bigger picture or think ahead at where the show might be going without assuming to much instead of just taking up a rigid viewpoint of how the show is supposed to be portraying itself then you would see that the factions are being painted with far more shades of grey then are visible on the surface of said picture…..which is pretty big by this point. Yet people keep staring directly at the centre of it which the part where you only get what you are being told specifically in the show by characters who have their own biases and motivations. It’s only the topmost layer of the show and the least useful on at that and only paying attention to the obvious or the lulzy is pretty much the worst way to watch a Gundam series.
Yet in the end I have no problem if that’s the way it’s going to be as long as people stop trying to insist that they have it all figured out and that I’m the one clearly in the wrong about Gundam 00. Disagree with me, give me your viewpoint folks (I’m actually a good listener believe it or not) but don’t try to claim that I’m outright wrong about a show that I’ve put a lot of time into analyzing until the very end where everything can be proven.
That’s all I have to say for now other than that no we don’t need Naked Newtype sequences, but really who cares that much that it’s in there. What are we all fundamentalists now that can’t handle a little nudity in our television? I think in this case people are just looking for things to take issue with again. And if people want to draw loose connections to Seed Destiny then that’s their problem, but the Gundam franchise didn’t begin with Seed Destiny and it certainly won’t end with 00, so they better learn to just move beyond it. It’s not the director or writers decision to care whether people are stupid and are going to freak out over their own insecurities about a series that has been over for 3 years now.
tl;dr: People are assuming way to much about how the show is supposed to be playing out instead of looking a little closer at how it’s actually playing out and they only have themselves to blame for their own confusion. Also a show doesn’t go bad just because it doesn’t play to your vision. Why can’t people understand something that simple.
@Excalibaa1!: Well what’s this, we’ve got a ten year old joining us this fine evening. Care to share with us any more of you’re clever wordplays? Arrêtez tandis que vous êtes en avant. s’il vous plait……
THIS EPISODE HAS PRODUCED MORE TLDR THAN ANY OTHER 00 EPISODE.
I’m not saying that’s bad, but I’m pretty sure if you guys moved back and re-read all of your posts from the start you’d find some really repetitive things.
Crusader has this tendency to flavor things up to the point where he sometimes doesn’t even give a clear closing statement. Either that, or the flavor is not to my taste and I lose attention =P
Kaioshin is just like he is every day on Animesuki, where he criticizes correctly but when he gives his “own reasons” it’s all vague crap that show he’s not willing to take a stance. That and his criticisms aren’t strong to begin with, just that it’s not wrong either.
These statements might be vague, but I’m not trying to hate on anyone, just saying this epic episode of crap produced more walls of text than any other 00 episode and it really shows in both your writings.
And while Eej has gave a really disturbing picture of Bob doing it, no one here still addresses the future possibility of what would happen if Nekkid Bob or Ali goes on the scene. I mean, yeah Bob would just have some epic Crusader-like speech talking to Jihad, but how would Ali react to it? Would he be like WTF YOU PERVS ARE DEAD or LOL YOU GOT NO BALLS etc etc.
But overall yes, though everyone expressed it differently with slightly altered angles and perspectives, 00 is just shoving crap whenever it feels necessary and not building up the plot correctly.
Lastly, Bring did not own Tieria that badly. At least not as bad as Ali. Which is a huge improvement, considering there’s no way GARzzo is weaker than Arche, rather the other way around. Well, personally I think this is just a way of saying Ali > Bring. Revival might get popped next episode, Bring with a slightly lower chance, but all round, the Innovator suits aren’t THAT amazing since both seem specialized in one area but can no longer compete in specialization in the face of Glitterball 00.
@kaioshinsama
OHHH. . .I see! you must be. . .
“THAT GUY”
i see, you’re that guy. . .you see, I dont need to write a wall of text to tell you what everone else knows. . .you’re a troll. . .period.
You’re “That guy”
and dont start speaking french you Quebecois, the real french hate you anyway.
P.S. I forgot to add the two words that turn you into a frothing, keyboard jokeying retard:
“Sunrise Sucks”
Kaioshin: If this was merely to show they were self-serving bastards… I’m not quite sure they succeeded either, especially given how much the episodes in S1 focused on Celestial Being as the good guys, especially compared to the Union or the Human Reform League, with Ali Al-Saaachez being brought in to show the sort of conscienceless killers that the Union (and later the Federation) preferred to use as their armed forces. The killing of Kinue Crossroad was apparently an effort to bolster this image of the Federation and the Union/HRL as being monsters who were more interested in warfare for the sake of a Military-Industrial Complex than their own civilians or ‘innocent’ targets.
Then S2 comes around, and we get exposed mostly to Celestial Being at first, barring a few scenes where we have Sergei and Soma or Louise with an arm deciding to sign up, with no signs that anything’s changed except that Celestial Being lost a bunch of resources and a pilot. Then we see the Federation invading the Middle East and Kataron forces ‘taking in children’ in Episode 5… followed by images of the resistance fighters (and that guy with the kid) being massacred by Federation forces at the end of that episode haunting Soma and Saji.
… and then comes Episode 6, where Saji’s being blamed for his role in the way the last episode unfolded. Up until Episode 8, after Adazistan was dismantled and we FINALLY get to see the Federation’s civilian populace in semi-normal circumstances, and also that Kataron’s forces are perhaps less righteous than they were initially portrayed. They took seven or eight episodes to show that it really wasn’t some sort of faceless evil, and up until this point encouraged the viewer to take everything presented at face value – including the idea that ‘maybe there’s some good people on the other side, but overall they’re bad’. Especially since parallels were being drawn by other bloggers (consciously or not) between Destiny’s portrayal of the Federation as the Great Satan (the deployment of super-soldiers like Soma, massacres of civilians per those in Episode 5, etc) and the desire of the Federation to incorporate everyone against their will into their happy family (and showing a willingness to kill them all in order to do so)… only to suddenly shift in Episode 7-8 as Regina and the others reveal the Innovators’ influence behind the scenes.
The earlier episodes really did give me the impression that they wanted everyone to think of the Federation as a stand-in for the imperialistic United States which forced its will on everyone else by creating a sort of ‘pax Romana’ as it moved into other countries and made them peaceful using whatever means necessary (including invasions), with the shift in tone only occurring after the Innovators’ plans were revealed and the sudden appearance of a large Kataron fleet some episodes after they were supposedly massacred.
Sudden revelations in a Gundam series, which turn foes into friends, or which reveal another conspiracy behind the villains? Who would’ve thought?
I’m just surprised that Louise’s squadron didn’t hide in cardboard boxes. I guess blankets were good enough. And what was up with the Louise x Saji x Setsuna threesome at the end? Wait till she finds out that she just caught her BF docking with a Meister. It made no sense to send Saji out in the 0-Raiser instead of trained pilot Soma/Marie, but since the Haro clearly handles all the defensive dodging routines I guess it doesn’t matter.
Has anyone else noticed that Sumeragi has been on an awesome run ever since she spent 5 years boozing and sleeping with Billy? It’s like drunkenness and pity sex sharpen the brain and kill off the weak brain cells. Survival of the fittest banzai!
Also, I totally think Anew is a spy.
@Excalibaa1! Lol, you got it all wrong. Kaoishin isn’t a troll, he just posts like he always does at Animesuki which is the pinnacle of free speech and wisdom.
So it’s not that he’s a “That Guy”, but more of like a guy that came from “That Crowd”.
@Kabitzin: Well clearly nerd speak will tell you the blankets are only there for camouflage and that turning off the engines alone will do enough. But then common sense makes you wonder how someone like Lyle with his near-Neilyo (NERD POINTS FOR THIS ONE) attributes manages not to see a bunch of blue crap floating around rocks. I mean, I get it that navy blue might be better than baby blue, but space is BLACK as far as I can tell in that episode. Or maybe they are all colorblind?
And for the record to clear things up for the ignorant, pretty sure nudity isn’t the problem here, but how Sailor Moonish the damn scenes are which take away from the gritty “real” atmosphere they try to put 00 in. Sure, it’s pretty much almost gone already, but 00 was never at SeeD level of flamboyance. Not until Naked dust vision along with giant Fruit Loops Gundam came along. Otherwise people would Q Q over every Sumeragi shower/teaser scene, and clearly it’s been the opposite.
I wonder what happened to Nena… if Ali did something bad to her, would fans stop hating her so much? … It feels like it’s gotten to the point that with every appearance Nena makes, she must be bashed beyond the point of all reason…
@Excalibaa1!: Wow….those are ummmm…..some put downs there……yeaaaaaaaah….you ought to work on that.
@Haesslich: I don’t think the first season focused so much on Celestial Being as the “good guys” so much as it focused on them as the protagonists. Whether you distinguish between the two concepts I’m not sure. As for Ali, he primarily worked with the AEU and not the Union and it’s been heavily implied that when he made the hit on Kinue it was forwarded through Alejandro and Ribbons through Laguna to do so. Basically Ribbons has been playing CB and at least a handful of other people since almost the very beginning of their interventions and it had little or nothing to do with any of the three powers or the Federation. I tend to look at the Federation as an organization that is capable of good things such as we saw with the standard of living for their citizens, but as one that is also being held hostage by Ribbon’s and his grand scheme while also falling prey to common greed and corruption. I bet the boy wonder has the power of veto too.
And as for why people might view the Federation as one that should be evil, I think it has something to do with people having yet more sudden and unwarranted Destiny flashbacks to the last global power in the rather generically evil Earth Union that was lead by a Blofeldian supervillain whose goal was more or less genocide. The Federation on the other hand has been portrayed more as a self-interested world government then a truly unambiguous evil thus far by my evaluation and their reliance on Ribbons and the Innovators as a pillar of stability has pretty much gotten them in over their head. How much does anyone want to bet that the A-LAWS were at least in part Ribbons idea. I mean he more or less brought about the events that formed them in the first place so that gives him a certain amount of leverage. “I made you and I can break you”, that sort of thing.
Anyway, your view on the current standoff in your latest post doesn’t appear to be all that different from mine so that’s er…..indeed a sudden revelation to go with Gundam’s tendencies. And yes it is kind of what the series is known for. And indeed I too have to ask the question as to where the Kataron fleet suddenly came from. Unless they’ve been hiding it all this time.
The last thing I wanted to add is that I’d really like them to take just one episode to devote to Kataron as a power in this conflict so that we can really get an angle on where they stand as heroes of justice versus self-serving opportunists, especially in Klaus’ case. I tend to agree that Marina lazing around and tubby there blathering away is less helpful for gauging the content of their character then something about Klaus past and why he formed the organization in the first place.
Kaioshin: They could’ve taken away the Marina time to focus on Kataron or anyone else, and not have been poorer for it. And I’d still use ‘good guys’ versus ‘protagonists’ for Celestial Being in season 1 (and the first part of S2) because of their goals and the way they would do things that were ‘nobler’ than their foes (saving that orbital segment, vowing to stop war, not being involved in the skirmishes and senseless bloodshed the Union was in, not massacring innocent civvies) to describe how they were portrayed, especially when you contrast them (especially Allelujah now) with someone like Ali whose utter lack of conscience and the enjoyment he takes in bloodshed is played up to the hilt. That, and trotting out things like Memento Mori and the supersoldier program to show how heartless the Federation and anyone not working for Celestial Being is. Granted, this ignores the Thrones and Ms. Wang’s motives, but for the most part they’ve tried to make the Ptolemaios’ crew the knights in shining armor that the crew of the Minerva was supposed to be in Destiny – to trot out the inevitable comparison given that Destiny was one of the more commercially successful Gundam series in the past five years.
Still, as far as antagonists go, I will admit that I like Ribbons and the Innovators – they use other people without conscience, and can be ‘evil’ without playing the melodramatic villain-role… especially since we’ve got Goodman and Ali doing it for us, and they’re more pawns than true ‘powers-that-be’. The Federation is certainly less overtly oppressive and against its own citizens’ interests than the Union or the HRL were, since the wars THEY get into aren’t directed against their own people and they seem to have a far better justification for them, and in the process aren’t trampling all over the rights of their citizens (that we can see) or reducing their standard of living and quality of life to Third World levels the way Kataron and Seel did to their own people.
About the only grain of sense I saw in Sumeragi’s crew, on the other hand, was how they stated bluntly in episode 4-5 that they weren’t interested in Kataron’s ideals and fought for their own reasons and shared only the same enemies but not goals… and didn’t surrender their independence of thought or action in order to advance Kataron’s interests, unlike a certain ship’s crew in the series-that-will-forever-be-denied-by-anyone-but-its-fans. Although they aren’t exactly thinking either, which wins them no points in my books.
At least Louise and half the A-LAWS are likeable, and Katie’s not a self-centered and sympathy-scrounging bitch. You can actually like her, even if she is a bit stiff around most people and hard to talk to (or get to know). Patrick has a sense of humor about himself and is unafraid to be the butt of jokes since he knows he’s doing his best; Sergei’s sense of honor and compassion make him more pleasant to watch than Setsuna half the time; Ginin’s stoicism and conscientious attention to duty and his squad was better than Hallelujah’s attitude and is somewhat reminiscent of the original Lockon’s attitude towards his own group; Louise and Soma were more fully fleshed out than the current Lockon (Lyle) and aren’t actively painful to watch when in a scene unlike Saji…
But seriously – naked glowing people sequences in a Gundam series these days will almost invariably draw comparisons to SEED and SEED Destiny, thanks to a certain pilot who should never be named again… and who won the Newtype Magazine ‘most popular pilot’ poll six years running. At least they weren’t afraid of showing someone willing to use sex to manipulate people, though, and did so without depicting her as a conscienceless whore. That’s one of the best things they did with that show, IMO.
So sad I will not see Captain Ginin anymore..
Oh sorry,
Not able to see anymore!T_T
As somebody pointed out, it seems that people take a disheartening liking to bash on Nena every time she appears. While I can understand some people thought she a bitch when she attacked the wedding, the malice shown towards her character is pretty sick. Most of the other characters have done similar things at one point or another, most of them are hypocrites but they don’t get bashed this much.
Also for the record, Nena isn’t that bad a pilot. She is at least on pair with Setsuna. (while this isn’t saying much it means she would own Louise if she fought her.)