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	<title>Comments on: On &#8220;Character&#8221; III: Architecture of Signification</title>
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	<description>THAT blog of various wonders!</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:30:39 +0800</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: coburn</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/11/08/on-character-iii-architecture-of-signification/comment-page-1/#comment-307698</link>
		<dc:creator>coburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 21:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=13492#comment-307698</guid>
		<description>You may not be watching this (brilliant) show anymore, but, for what it&#039;s worth:

http://claiming.wordpress.com/files/2009/01/glasses1.jpg
http://claiming.wordpress.com/files/2009/01/glasses2.jpg
http://claiming.wordpress.com/files/2009/01/glasses3.jpg
http://claiming.wordpress.com/files/2009/01/glasses4.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may not be watching this (brilliant) show anymore, but, for what it&#8217;s worth:</p>
<p><a href="http://claiming.wordpress.com/files/2009/01/glasses1.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://claiming.wordpress.com/files/2009/01/glasses1.jpg</a><br />
<a href="http://claiming.wordpress.com/files/2009/01/glasses2.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://claiming.wordpress.com/files/2009/01/glasses2.jpg</a><br />
<a href="http://claiming.wordpress.com/files/2009/01/glasses3.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://claiming.wordpress.com/files/2009/01/glasses3.jpg</a><br />
<a href="http://claiming.wordpress.com/files/2009/01/glasses4.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://claiming.wordpress.com/files/2009/01/glasses4.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: ghostlightning</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/11/08/on-character-iii-architecture-of-signification/comment-page-1/#comment-284937</link>
		<dc:creator>ghostlightning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 05:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=13492#comment-284937</guid>
		<description>Looking forward to it already! ^_^

^_^ [signifies] predisposition to glee [signifies] &#039;all culture is deculture&#039; ideology</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking forward to it already! ^_^</p>
<p>^_^ [signifies] predisposition to glee [signifies] &#8216;all culture is deculture&#8217; ideology</p>
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		<title>By: lelangir</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/11/08/on-character-iii-architecture-of-signification/comment-page-1/#comment-284908</link>
		<dc:creator>lelangir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 03:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=13492#comment-284908</guid>
		<description>Ghost: Hmmm, I think what I meant by &quot;metaphorical or discursive space&quot; is that the space of the house establishes a, so to speak, &quot;zone of signification&quot;, wherein certain signifiers signify certain signifieds. I don&#039;t think the household as a space signifies anything - it is the place in which signfication is &lt;em&gt;situated&lt;/em&gt;, not the place &lt;em&gt;from which&lt;/em&gt; signification is &quot;elicited&quot;. 

Although you&#039;re right too, that since this household is a sign in itself, it must be represented, and it is then subjected to signification. So we can all make our hypothesis, as there isn&#039;t really a correct or incorrect vision of what something &quot;should mean&quot;.

Yeah, definitely; I agree that there are times when semiotic paradigms get skipped. It&#039;s possible, as you mentioned, that ideology signifies visual appearance &lt;strong&gt;then&lt;/strong&gt; signifies personality. I guess this route could be taken in flashbacks, where there is a strong ideological backdrop to a story, and a certain person is mentioned or remembered, though they are silent, and then later their personality is actualized. 

I think this was, originally, the last post about signification, in such a Saussurian way, and next I was going to talk about cast structures and binaries and such (which should prove rather fun).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ghost: Hmmm, I think what I meant by &#8220;metaphorical or discursive space&#8221; is that the space of the house establishes a, so to speak, &#8220;zone of signification&#8221;, wherein certain signifiers signify certain signifieds. I don&#8217;t think the household as a space signifies anything &#8211; it is the place in which signfication is <em>situated</em>, not the place <em>from which</em> signification is &#8220;elicited&#8221;. </p>
<p>Although you&#8217;re right too, that since this household is a sign in itself, it must be represented, and it is then subjected to signification. So we can all make our hypothesis, as there isn&#8217;t really a correct or incorrect vision of what something &#8220;should mean&#8221;.</p>
<p>Yeah, definitely; I agree that there are times when semiotic paradigms get skipped. It&#8217;s possible, as you mentioned, that ideology signifies visual appearance <strong>then</strong> signifies personality. I guess this route could be taken in flashbacks, where there is a strong ideological backdrop to a story, and a certain person is mentioned or remembered, though they are silent, and then later their personality is actualized. </p>
<p>I think this was, originally, the last post about signification, in such a Saussurian way, and next I was going to talk about cast structures and binaries and such (which should prove rather fun).</p>
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		<title>By: ghostlightning</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/11/08/on-character-iii-architecture-of-signification/comment-page-1/#comment-284904</link>
		<dc:creator>ghostlightning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 03:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=13492#comment-284904</guid>
		<description>@ lelangir

I apologize if I wasn&#039;t too clear. While there is a signifier:signified relationship between ideas and signs, it also doesn&#039;t follow that the particular sign may not or does not signify anything else (even within the anime). Also, you&#039;re right about the space of the household, that too signifies the cruelty perhaps in different ways than the glasses, but they support each other.

So even in the anime, or even the episode, the glasses and the space of the household may signify different things, and may even be unrelated to personality and ideology. The glasses may signify the &lt;i&gt;filters by which the whole family views the world&lt;/i&gt; - which leapfrogs personality and goes straight to ideology. Using your original model, it may look like this:

Glasses (visual) [signifies] Religion is power over others (ideology) [signifies] cruelty and hypocrisy (personality). This may be just as true as the ideology [signifies] personality [signifies] visual example you outlined in your post (awesome job by the way, especially the way you noticed the removal of the glasses and the &quot;look at me&quot; device).

Ultimately, the triangle model may not quite work as much as perhaps a web or a flow-chart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ lelangir</p>
<p>I apologize if I wasn&#8217;t too clear. While there is a signifier:signified relationship between ideas and signs, it also doesn&#8217;t follow that the particular sign may not or does not signify anything else (even within the anime). Also, you&#8217;re right about the space of the household, that too signifies the cruelty perhaps in different ways than the glasses, but they support each other.</p>
<p>So even in the anime, or even the episode, the glasses and the space of the household may signify different things, and may even be unrelated to personality and ideology. The glasses may signify the <i>filters by which the whole family views the world</i> &#8211; which leapfrogs personality and goes straight to ideology. Using your original model, it may look like this:</p>
<p>Glasses (visual) [signifies] Religion is power over others (ideology) [signifies] cruelty and hypocrisy (personality). This may be just as true as the ideology [signifies] personality [signifies] visual example you outlined in your post (awesome job by the way, especially the way you noticed the removal of the glasses and the &#8220;look at me&#8221; device).</p>
<p>Ultimately, the triangle model may not quite work as much as perhaps a web or a flow-chart.</p>
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		<title>By: lelangir</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/11/08/on-character-iii-architecture-of-signification/comment-page-1/#comment-284877</link>
		<dc:creator>lelangir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Nov 2008 00:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=13492#comment-284877</guid>
		<description>Ghost: Right, the problem with the signifying model was that it didn&#039;t go &quot;backwards&quot; - and it still is hard and rare for it to work like that. Ideology rarely signifies visual appearance alone, and it&#039;s even hard to define ideology within an anime, as it usually turns out to be &quot;atmosphere&quot;. 

I don&#039;t really get your first point...&quot;it&#039;s only a problem if we are assigning absolute values&quot; - what does the &quot;it&quot; refer to? While, yes, we cannot say that just because the Morenos family wears glasses and is cruel - therefore everyone in the anime that wears glasses is cruel - that&#039;s why I wanted to explicitly say that the &lt;em&gt;space of the household&lt;/em&gt; was the most significant factor there. Though there are exceptions, as in other episode Michiko takes off her sunglasses (she acquires several pairs). Although that could also corroborate the fact that this was an episodic metaphor, the only time we see this notion of &quot;the house&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ghost: Right, the problem with the signifying model was that it didn&#8217;t go &#8220;backwards&#8221; &#8211; and it still is hard and rare for it to work like that. Ideology rarely signifies visual appearance alone, and it&#8217;s even hard to define ideology within an anime, as it usually turns out to be &#8220;atmosphere&#8221;. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really get your first point&#8230;&#8221;it&#8217;s only a problem if we are assigning absolute values&#8221; &#8211; what does the &#8220;it&#8221; refer to? While, yes, we cannot say that just because the Morenos family wears glasses and is cruel &#8211; therefore everyone in the anime that wears glasses is cruel &#8211; that&#8217;s why I wanted to explicitly say that the <em>space of the household</em> was the most significant factor there. Though there are exceptions, as in other episode Michiko takes off her sunglasses (she acquires several pairs). Although that could also corroborate the fact that this was an episodic metaphor, the only time we see this notion of &#8220;the house&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: ghostlightning</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/11/08/on-character-iii-architecture-of-signification/comment-page-1/#comment-284858</link>
		<dc:creator>ghostlightning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 22:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=13492#comment-284858</guid>
		<description>Well, it&#039;s only a problem if we assing absolute values (1:1 correspondence) between signifier and signified. We&#039;ll have a problem if we claim, &#039;glasses&#039; &lt;i&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; signify &#039;cruel personality&#039; in Michiko to Hatchin. It only takes one kind meganekko character there, or an episode where Hana wears glasses to break the rule. 

However, it would be very interesting if they did an episode where Hana wears glasses and changes personality - becomes cruel, even if only for that episode. We would see a stronger signifying statement.

There will be a plurality of ideas signified by signs, but it is always interesting to me what these could be. So it is less about the &#039;play&#039; or dynamics of signification in your fluid pyramid model. Your perceived &#039;flaws&#039; in your original post and theory is easily freed by stating it this way:

visual appearance &#039;also&#039; signifies personality, and personality &#039;also&#039; signifies ideology - among possible signifieds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, it&#8217;s only a problem if we assing absolute values (1:1 correspondence) between signifier and signified. We&#8217;ll have a problem if we claim, &#8216;glasses&#8217; <i>only</i> signify &#8216;cruel personality&#8217; in Michiko to Hatchin. It only takes one kind meganekko character there, or an episode where Hana wears glasses to break the rule. </p>
<p>However, it would be very interesting if they did an episode where Hana wears glasses and changes personality &#8211; becomes cruel, even if only for that episode. We would see a stronger signifying statement.</p>
<p>There will be a plurality of ideas signified by signs, but it is always interesting to me what these could be. So it is less about the &#8216;play&#8217; or dynamics of signification in your fluid pyramid model. Your perceived &#8216;flaws&#8217; in your original post and theory is easily freed by stating it this way:</p>
<p>visual appearance &#8216;also&#8217; signifies personality, and personality &#8216;also&#8217; signifies ideology &#8211; among possible signifieds.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/11/08/on-character-iii-architecture-of-signification/comment-page-1/#comment-284729</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 03:53:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=13492#comment-284729</guid>
		<description>In literature it&#039;s common to see glasses representing a distorted view of reality, or somehow a physical or mental barrier between the person and the outside world, but people generally don&#039;t apply the same standards to anime. It&#039;s good to see that you&#039;re spending the time to analyze this anime (which I&#039;ve never seen nor heard of) with such depth.

Very well written and interesting post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In literature it&#8217;s common to see glasses representing a distorted view of reality, or somehow a physical or mental barrier between the person and the outside world, but people generally don&#8217;t apply the same standards to anime. It&#8217;s good to see that you&#8217;re spending the time to analyze this anime (which I&#8217;ve never seen nor heard of) with such depth.</p>
<p>Very well written and interesting post.</p>
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		<title>By: Yukan Blog! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weeaboo Ideology</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/11/08/on-character-iii-architecture-of-signification/comment-page-1/#comment-284709</link>
		<dc:creator>Yukan Blog! &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Weeaboo Ideology</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 01:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=13492#comment-284709</guid>
		<description>[...] ←[75] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ←[75] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: olivia</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/11/08/on-character-iii-architecture-of-signification/comment-page-1/#comment-284687</link>
		<dc:creator>olivia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 00:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=13492#comment-284687</guid>
		<description>Wow - you wrote a research paper here

the series almost seems to suggest that glasses hinder our true visions or something... or that the producer just hates glasses</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow &#8211; you wrote a research paper here</p>
<p>the series almost seems to suggest that glasses hinder our true visions or something&#8230; or that the producer just hates glasses</p>
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		<title>By: Pupnem</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/11/08/on-character-iii-architecture-of-signification/comment-page-1/#comment-284640</link>
		<dc:creator>Pupnem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 19:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Good Analysis, you gave a lot of thought and structure to the anime, but you dont think that the triangle logic is somewhat missing something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good Analysis, you gave a lot of thought and structure to the anime, but you dont think that the triangle logic is somewhat missing something.</p>
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		<title>By: Cherubium</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/11/08/on-character-iii-architecture-of-signification/comment-page-1/#comment-284599</link>
		<dc:creator>Cherubium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Nov 2008 12:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=13492#comment-284599</guid>
		<description>Wow this seems like a lot of food for thought. This seems to remind me about psychology and english put together to anaylse anime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow this seems like a lot of food for thought. This seems to remind me about psychology and english put together to anaylse anime.</p>
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