THAT Animeblog

198 Comments so far

1. Ominae September 28th, 2008 2:14 pm

   Seems like IMO this is the only redeeming way for the trainwreck that is CG…

   More of my rants later on.

   Of course, feel free to disagree with me otherwise.

2. Raindog September 28th, 2008 2:14 pm

   1st

   an epic ending with fights

   i practicly died laughing when orange did his kamakize thing, then theirs the orange farm

   my only quetions is lelouch dead, is C.C. a virgin and where is super maid

3. Raindog September 28th, 2008 2:15 pm

   @ calawain
   That’s it guys, there is officially nobody more badass than Orange-kun. The guy ejects a knightmare out of the Siegfried to go after her, blows it up on top of Mordred, and then he himself leaps out and lands on top of it. This guy is my fucking hero.

   dude im with you all hail Orange’s farm grown oranges and orange related products

   2n darn you ominae posting a second before me

4. XXX September 28th, 2008 2:19 pm

   I enjoyed it, even if I’m still a little sad.

   The ending was decent, but we really did miss out on several things most people were expecting to see, even if the overall ending had remained the same.

   Not much use in groaning though.

   I think Lelouch is dead, for the record.

5. Raindog September 28th, 2008 2:21 pm

   guys look at the wedding pick

   HOW THE HELL DID RIVALS OR WHATEVER HIS NAME IS HOOK UP WITH PURPLE HAIR FROM EPISODE 12

6. max September 28th, 2008 2:27 pm

   What the hell was the deal with the memory transfer to nunnally. Does lulu have a code or something and can transfer memories on accident like C.C. did when she died. This is way to open. Gay ending.

7. Heretic_G September 28th, 2008 2:29 pm

   Is it wrong that I started crying during the scene with Lelouch’s death and subsequent montage and song? Slowly at first, but I just started bursting tears by the time they were showing the wedding pic. I’ve never cried to a movie/anime before… well maybe a small sob at the end of Last of the Mohicans. Maybe it’s because I’m actually one of the guys that didn’t think Code Geass was a trainwreck, and enjoyed it truthfully?

8. Eldar September 28th, 2008 2:31 pm

   The latter half pretty of 25 sadly was pretty much the highpoint of a very lackluster 2nd season that and Nunnally’s little red slave outfit.

   As for Lelouche’s ultimate fate, the intention of the writers and creators probably was for him to die, but given how death has become a revolving door in Geass where we’ve people surviving a purple nuke or a machine gun, I think there is plenty of ways for him to have survived.

9. Nagato September 28th, 2008 2:31 pm

   And here I thought Crusader would be popping champagne when Lulu died

10. jeph September 28th, 2008 2:47 pm

    What’s the deal with Arthur the cat? I feel like they’re trying to push the fact that he plays some important role but I can’t see it. Is he supposed to be the reincarnation of someone? If he is my guess is Suzaku’s father.

11. CJ September 28th, 2008 2:50 pm

    FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF(i would go on but i think it would be considered spam…)

    Dam it Lelouch whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. you know sunrise you’re real assholes you knew that the series was way to rushed and that the only way to make the fans like the ending was to kill off the main character well F U (Crusader I’m gonna have to burrow your bomber jets)
    -Also Zero’s Requiem? or Celestial Being? LAZY ASS WRITERS
    -Okay I might be ranting alot it’s not that I hated the ending it’s just I really didn’t want lelouch to die even though I knew it would happen… Ignorant people of the world living happily due to the sacrifices of others… please don’t try to compare this to a real life situdation where the sacrifices of others make us happy cuz it’s an anime and I just wanted my happy unicorn ending well everything resolved itself on its own. T-T
    - It would’ve been a better ending if Ali Al-Sarshes showed up and started the death list starting with oughi I mean PRIME MINISTER japan is gonna rot in hell in a matter of weeks.
    -I’m so EMO right now I’ve lost all purpose in life. (only temporarily hopefully gundam 00 season 2 will get my hopes up.)
    -Also there are so many things unanswered what happened to gay ass Gino? Ninja maid? Cornelia? I’m to sad to remember the other things I thought while watching the episode.
    -Tamaki bar owner = lol (i think he has the second best ending, second only to orange-kun’s)
    -You know I find it hilarious how Guilford is blind but was running around with a machine gun????? Cornelia has much faith in the aim of a blind man
    -You know why I think I’m really pissed of at lelouch’s death is because unimportant characters like guilford survive while Lelouch vi Britannia dies…. BY A PINK SWORD SERIOUSLY……………………….Even Fleia would’ve been a more fitting death. (not really but still PINK SWORD)
    -Orange-kun is now my favorite character since my other favorite is now….can’t say it…
    -I can’t think straight I’m gonna post again later on… probably… i think so?
    -You know many people claim the second season was Bull but I liked it (calawain I will discuss more of it on that post you make so please do)

12. Omisyth September 28th, 2008 2:50 pm

    I think a smaller cast would’ve done wonders for this series. And more Cornelia fanservice.

13. biankita September 28th, 2008 2:51 pm

    i like the ending. ambigious as it is. only an OVA can tell if lelouch is alive.

    there are two things that pisses me off about the ending:

    1. nunally became the empress or whatever they’re called now??? i prefer cornelia. seriously, let’s let the crippled loli rule britannia alongside with ougi as PM – i smell the demise of the world cometh.

    2. suzaku is a sorry excuse to inherit zero’s identity. he’s a follower who thinks he can, not a leader. generally, he’s been everyone’s butt monkey who thinks he’s outsmarted every except that he gets pwned every single time. i’m not a suzaku hater. i just don’t think he possesses the skills zero had like a knack for real-time strategy and major plotting.

    *** yes, sayoko’s non-presence in the orange farm pisses me off the most.

14. Maipeisu September 28th, 2008 3:02 pm

    I’ll admit it, I cried like a big baby during the ending scenes. I wasn’t expecting it, but the struggles and zigzags of the series just sort of cascaded into a wrecking ball of emotion and I felt like I finally understood what the series was trying to convey in one fell swoop.

    The only thought going through my head most of the episode was, “will Lulu truly have the courage to sacrifice his life after soliciting the entire world’s curses?” He most certainly did, and redeemed himself as a character in my eyes by doing so. He bravely found a way to justify all of his past actions. I was surprised at how quickly it happened.

    Orange-kun is my HERO. I loved how they wrapped a GIANT chain around Schneizel.

15. Greyknight 66 September 28th, 2008 3:07 pm

    well, i hope lelouch survived, i actually liked him until the end…
    however, the series is called R2
    hmmm R.R. C.C. V.V. any coincidence.
    i think lelouch did inherit the code.
    anyways, a sad but decent ending

16. Halcyon September 28th, 2008 3:09 pm

    I think this is really the most appropriate way to end the series. I wasn’t satisfied with it either but it was obvious that Lelouch was going to become a martyr. Having said that, his death scene was very well done. He passes on the torch and the responsibility of watching over the world to Suzaku. Suzaku dons the mask of Zero and can never again have a normal life OR happiness which is his penance for killing his father and his best friend.

    Orange-kun is the official GAR poster boy for this series. Dude was unstoppable and loyal to the very end.

    None of the characters that should have died actually died (except for Diethard). Schneizel becomes a puppet for ZeroZaku.

    I raged when I first saw this episode because it met NONE of my expectations but then again, what episodes (that weren’t spoiled) did meet expectations this season?

    Essentially, everyone gets to have a nice happy life at the cost of the main character. Ogi, being the biggest fucking idiot in the entire series, manages to become Prime Minister.. Biggest trolling ever.

    A couple of questions were left unanswered by the finale, like C.C.’s real name, how Nunnally can uncover Lelouch’s entire plot just by touching his hand. whatever happened to Odysseus, Guinevuire and Carline, if Xing Ke finally dies (he was “short on time” for most of the 2nd half of the series) and finally, WHAT THE FUCK EVER HAPPENED TO THE KNIGHT OF 9? FUCKING WHERE. Hopefully they’ve resolve these questions with a DVD only sound episode or picture drama or something. The last few minutes leave a little ray of hope for C.C. as she commented on Geass making people lonely only to point out that it had the opposite effect in this case. Lelouch’s Geass eventually brought happiness to the world and even, possibly, true love to C.C. eventhough she (apparently) remains immortal.

    Between this and Macross Frontier, I’ve been thoroughly disappointed with the endings this season.

    FYI, If you’re looking for another action-oriented series to blog Kurogane no Linebacker is a good bet. The source material is pretty good so hopefully they won’t fuck up the adapation.

17. Übï September 28th, 2008 3:24 pm

    Prime Minister? Are you fucking kidding me? Prime Minister? The guy is a complete idiot how could he lead anything effectively?

    Probably better than Bush… and he was elected twice!

18. xrampage September 28th, 2008 3:26 pm

    Is it weird that I found Nunna-chan really hot on that red dress during the execution scene? Please tell me I’m not the only one >_>

19. Halcyon September 28th, 2008 3:32 pm

    @Calawain

    “Hey Taniguchi, I hate Anno, but I can say that you are no Anno. So fuck you Taniguchi, fuck you.”

    I fucking almost pissed myself laughing. It’s like we share the same mind!

20. tzhuge September 28th, 2008 3:39 pm

    I was really happy that Kallen kicked Suzaku’s ass… too bad the script did her such disservice through the entire season.

    I think it only really makes sense for Lelouch to be alive. Why wouldn’t they do the code transfer thing? Anyone else notice that the whole thing about C.C.’s immortality pretty much drop out of the plot, as if to set up for a more ambiguous ending? Then again, to be consistent with the rest of the cast, Lelouch is overdue for a monumentally stupid move. It’s really too bad they didn’t just explicitly show the ending as Lelouch pulling one last big deception.

21. Coco September 28th, 2008 3:40 pm

    that was…something. suza has the weight of the world on his shoulders now. i started to cry when lulu died and nunz was all sobbing. i luffed the epilouge ending. it reminded me of a well written anime movie. well played.

22. semtex September 28th, 2008 3:43 pm

    Oh dear, so this is their idea of selling more DVDs? more picture books episodes….. To Sunrise: Want to save money? Reduce the cast…EARLY next time

23. dra. September 28th, 2008 3:48 pm

    Lelouch is immortal, which makes CC happy.
    Nunally was able to see Lelouch’s thoughts because of his code.
    He was driving the cart, and later on him and CC are gonna roll around in the hay.

    OVA coming which focuses on fan service. All the girls are in for some hot spring hi-jinx. We also get shots of Ougi’s baby. Its name is Trig and it has downs.

24. Mytilene September 28th, 2008 3:48 pm

    “SuzakuxLulu ending confirmed…”

    YES!! My friend owes me money!

25. Dm September 28th, 2008 3:52 pm

    “Man, half of these people should be dead, including the bride and the groom”
    Yeah, I think you’re right

    “Why does everyone make fun of me?”
    Elfen Lied told us why….and it was fun for no one

26. 16Phoenix September 28th, 2008 3:55 pm

    I loved the last episode. I watched it three times. I was so surprised and upset that Lelouch died. I wanted him to live. There where a lot of other characters who should have kicked the bucket. Ogi Prime Minister!!??!!! You got to be kidding me! That is jacked up. I hope there is an OVA. Maybe they will bring back Lelouch. I hope. Orange-kun an orange farmer…LOL!!! What else can I say. Loved the series kind of sad it’s over. Holding out for OVA.

27. Mytilene September 28th, 2008 3:55 pm

    @ jeph

    Oh yeah, and, the whole deal with Arthur is that he was sort of Suzaku’s pet, the only thing that belonged to him, I guess; but really I think they just wanted to slip more King Arthur references in there (and if someone’s gone both seasons without figuring out “Lancelot, Pendragon, Arthur- oh, hey!”, I have lost all faith in humanity).

28. Calawain September 28th, 2008 4:00 pm

    @Raindog

    Not sure, doubtful, and unknown.

    Orange-kun is the best character in this show.

    Rivalz is a pimp.

    @XXX

    Side materials, we can only hope can fill in what was missing.

    @Heretic_G

    It’s not wrong to cry, it was actually pretty emotional. When you’ve followed a show for 50 episodes, even one like this, you get emotionally attached to the characters. Plus another wonderful Hitomi insert song set a great mood.

    @Jeph

    Like many other things in CG, he’s there for the lulz.

    @CJ

    The show borrowed heavily from both Gundam and Eva, as you seem to have notice.

    I didn’t want Lelouch to die either, but at least the way they did it was acceptable. It gave him peace and redemption, finally achieving his goals.

    @Biankita

    I think Cornelia is exhausted from it all, and Nunally has more recent stature. Plus she’s much more diplomatic, while Cornelia is more of a war-like leader, which doesn’t help in the current state of the world.

    And yeah, Suzaku is no Zero when it comes to charisma and strategic brainpower. But they really don’t need that for the show anymore, he just needs to act the symbol.

    @Maipeisu

    Lelouch has by far the best character development in the show, I had no doubt he was ready to sacrifice himself for everyone else. He’s someone who believes in justice and paying for one’s sins.

29. Calawain September 28th, 2008 4:04 pm

    @Halcyon

    Expect an Orange-kun post of awesomeness sometime this week, I’m collecting large amounts of art and screenshots.

    You have pretty much the same list of unanswered questions that I do. One can only hope OVAs or side materials can explain it. There’s certainly an appetite for more material.

    As for Kurogane, the material looks solid, but it’s Gonzo =/ I go into their shows with caution.

    @Xrampage

    No, you aren’t the only one, I was somehwat aroused.

    @Dra. added

    Say….what?

    @Semtex

    They need to borrow some Gundam writers, now those guys know how to kill off cast members early and often.

30. bearzerger September 28th, 2008 4:08 pm

    Seeing how everyone else came back to life I’m sure Lelouche did as well.
    I’ll continue to wait for a sunrise mecha series which doesn’t end with a war to end all wars.

31. lichen September 28th, 2008 4:14 pm

    Wow, while I read this post and looked at the pictures towards the end, the song ‘Dimension of Love,’ played at the finale of Tenchi Universe, came into my head. Lol… I bet Ryoko even said ‘right, tenchi’ as they walked past orange trees.

32. jeph September 28th, 2008 4:26 pm

    I can’t believe that we got through an entire series that was basically beating us over the head with Arthurian legend references and we didn’t get a single “Merlin” reference. I was expecting either Charles or Schneizel to bust out with some uber-knightmare called the Merlin.

33. ZeroR2 September 28th, 2008 4:27 pm

    I thought it was actually good, I hated that Lelouch died…
    I cryed when he died…
    Can’t wait for an OVA

34. lelangir September 28th, 2008 4:49 pm

    Orange-kun pulling a TTGL jump-out-of-screwed-mechas was epic.

    Orange-kun was epic. JEREMIAH GOTTWALD.

    The Suzaku-Zero thing was great, I thought. I like Suzaku a lot, I dunno why. On a superficial level, probably.

    2nd time, Orange-kun was so epic.

35. EvilDevil September 28th, 2008 4:49 pm

    “Hey, maybe Sayoko and Orange adopted Anya, that would be the best ending of all imo.”
    I believe this too, and the reason we dont see sayoko is that maybe she is prego and give birth to an orange soon… also we learn that Orange-kun runs a successful orange industry…

    “I just wanted to say that it’s alright and that I will always love you. I will never forget the time we had together, be safe beloved.”
    damn… now i really wish this was true…

    nunnally in chains… I want doujins of this…

    I, for one, welcome our Loli Empress Overlord. I pledge allegiance to our new empress… all hail Imperatrix Nunnally Vi Britannia !!!

36. Raindog September 28th, 2008 4:57 pm

    hey guys i was on a chat site bout this and thousands of conspiracy theories came up about his death

    this one is mine

    it wasnt the real lelouch it was super maido in a mask like in episodes 11-12
    if you notice shes not seen again after her little role

    also

    @ calawain
    Expect an Orange-kun post of awesomeness sometime this week, I’m collecting large amounts of art and screenshots

    hey if you want i have a loop video of him doin the morderd takedown
    like the one you set up of kallen abusing poor drugzaku

37. Ominae September 28th, 2008 4:59 pm

    I wonder if Orange will have an adventure that concerns bad guys attacking his farm. XP

38. Sleepy September 28th, 2008 5:19 pm

    Has anyone considered that the dead Lelouch is super maido? ;D
    I mean we haven’t seen her anywhere…

39. jayers September 28th, 2008 5:21 pm

    lol I can never get sick of that Prince Ali song XD

40. Calawain September 28th, 2008 5:38 pm

    @Jeph

    Now that you mention it, that fact is a bit surprising.

    @Lelangir

    Giga Orange Breaker!

    @EvilDevil

    We now have two loli empresses with Tianzi and Nunally. This show certainly knows how to pander.

    @Raindog

    Sure thing man, if you want to e-mail it to the blog e-mail with “To Calawain” in the subject line that would be great. E-mail is thatATanimebloggerDOTnet.

    @Ominae

    That would be so damn epic, Supameido Ninja + Orange against burglars and hobbits stealing their crops.

    @Sleepy

    She was in one of the prison shots briefly with Rakshata and them.

41. FireStarter September 28th, 2008 5:41 pm

    @ Raindog

    “it wasnt the real lelouch it was super maido in a mask like in episodes 11-12
    if you notice shes not seen again after her little role”

    No, it’s the real lelouch. Notice supameido is still in prison next to Cecile when lelouch is about to be killed. Although she didn’t say anything.

42. VentriX September 28th, 2008 5:43 pm

    OMG, Lelouch is dead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

43. 13 September 28th, 2008 5:54 pm

    super maid is NOT lelouch. . .how else would nunally be able to get his memories. . . . he obviously got the immortal code thing just didnt know it. . .only those people can transfer memories.

    i think that ninja maid is with cc and lelou, and had a hand in reviving him.

    I dont think lulu realized he had the code till he woke up in a carriage with c.c

    ALL HAIL R.R

    now he has a code and a geass

    Code Geass: Lelouch Lamperouge R2= R.R

44. FireStarter September 28th, 2008 5:55 pm

    did any one understand what the title meant? (Re;)

45. ANIMEKRAZY123 September 28th, 2008 5:56 pm

    since i’m not picky bout much in anime unless the story and/or art just sucks like hell i’m going to say this has made it into my top fav, animes ever! and i cried like hell through like what half the episode when lelouch was dying and was dead

    and yes i am hoping for an OVA or movie at the very least
    i can’t believe sunrise f***ing killed of lelouch!!
    i absolutely loved him TOT
    plz C.C please tell me he’s alive and you were talking to him alive not dead up in heaven, but i really don’t see that happening because Lelouch has gone through too many lies and pain to actually have the will to fool Suzaku and everyone else, besides that Nanully would’ve have known whether he was a fake when she touched Lelouch before he died, so he’s definately dead
    Well at the very LEAST i am hoping that later on in their world his name will be redeemed and his true history will be told though as these stories usually go, either a few people know it and they eventually die or in the end it is just kept as a secret NOOOOOOOOOOO LELOUCH!!!!!!!!!

46. Ominae September 28th, 2008 6:03 pm

    @Calawain

    - Don’t forget Anya and maybe Jeremiah has the Siegfried somewhere hidden in his farm ready for an attack.

    PS – Guess all of us had gotten the “Just as Planned” thing.

47. random_guy September 28th, 2008 6:17 pm

    REASONS WHY LELOUCH IS ALIVE-HE WAS THE CART DRIVER
    -Reasons:
    -when Nunally touched lelouch she was able to see all of his memories. this is only possible if you have a Code and are immortal like C.C.
    -you first need to die to activate the code
    -if you freeze the screen with the driver has black hair the length of lelouch’s
    -C.C. talks to lelouch at the end. if she were just talking to herself, she wouldn’t have gotten louder when saying “right lelouch?”

48. Raindog September 28th, 2008 6:50 pm

    thats no sayaco next to cecile thats one of the ikaruga operater chicks

49. Insider September 28th, 2008 6:55 pm

    Nice ending, but the final is ambiguous, the world is a better place now that lulu sacrificed himself for it. Here is my theory that lelouch is alive: when C.C. said “Right lelouch?” she is obviouly asking to the driver (lulu), whose face wasn’t shown, if he wasn’t, why no put a generic face to the diver? also is the fact that lelouch hasn’t complete his promise to C.C. that is to let her die with a smile in her face. The only way to accomplish this is to take her code and live with her ’til the final day of her life granting her a happy life with him, so if lulu is dead he cannont complete his promise. C.C. is no going to give her code to anyone easily so my, the only choice is lelouch. thats my theory about the fact that lulu is alive.

50. Insider September 28th, 2008 7:39 pm

    Ups sorry to post again, but I forgot one thing to mention. at the end of the episode when C.C. is talking. C.C. was actually talking moving her lips, if she was thinking or talking with a possible dead lulu, what was the reason of talking, sunrise could show just the voice of her saying those words, like with Karen in the epiloge. But the didn’t becuase she as talking with the driver that is Lelouch!!!!!!

    I must add……………… ALL HAIL LELOUCH!!!!!!

51. ???? September 28th, 2008 7:47 pm

    I hate stupid people who think that kallen won, accept it suzaku let her win, it was all part of the plan, you’ll see the true qhen all the information comes out!.

52. WHOOYEAH September 28th, 2008 8:07 pm

    YAY ORANGE-KUN. Fucking badass.
    And it’s okay; you weren’t the only one who cried when Nunally started bawling. ;D

    I really wouldn’t have minded to see a little *more* with Kallen, however…
    …Or Cornelia…

53. Cronus September 28th, 2008 8:12 pm

    It seems to me it only makes sense for lelouch to be alive. Why else would C.C. be talking out loud at the end? If the writers wanted to imply that he is dead, then they would have made that last sentence of hers a thought.

    Also, the way she says, “Right, Lelouch?” sort of sounds like shes talking over her shoulder to someone, the driver.

54. FireStarter September 28th, 2008 8:29 pm

    Why everyone wants Lelouch to live? His death is required for Zero Requiem. Plus C.C was crying while praying to God.
    Beside if you listen to the last line C.C said,
    “Geass, the power of Kings, isolates people. or…maybe it’s not quite like that.”
    Lelouch proved C.C’s “experience” to be incorrect, thus giving her more reasons to live.
    Isn’t that a better ending than C.C dying with a smile?

55. Calawain September 28th, 2008 8:39 pm

    @FireStarter

    Re: as in Re:quiem, Zero Requiem. At least that’s the explanation that I’ve heard. Bad Engrish I guess…

    @Ominae

    Mmm the Siegfried got pretty much blown up by Anya there, unless he gets another one built. He looks kind of retired from the military though~

    @Random_guy

    As believable as any of the other theories out there, I can’t really decide either way. I can certainly hope though =)

    @FireStarter

    People (including myself) get attached to the main character and want him to have a happy ending. It’s a natural urge, despite the necessity of his death for his great plan.

56. None September 28th, 2008 8:43 pm

    I think i get it, When Nunnaly touched Lelouch she saw all his memorys. Thats what C.C. Could do cuz she had the code thingy. Maybe he got the code and that memory…errr…attack. I think they purposly didnt clarify if he lived or not because they might not be sure if their ready to end it yet.

57. Zentari September 28th, 2008 8:50 pm

    I dunno, I REALLY liked the ending.Nunally’s rant kinda got to me in the end (yeah, she’s an idiot , but it was cruel ) and Orange….well, Oranke-kun was FUCK YEAH from start to end.

58. ph34r m3h September 28th, 2008 9:05 pm

    Anyone else realize that C.C spoke louder when she said ‘Right, Lelouch?’ as if talking to the driver? [Who has, coincidentally, Lelouch's hair... sorta...]
    Also, just thinking about this… Nunnally ‘read’ Lelouch’s… thoughts and memories when she touched his hand [making him the REAL Lelouch], but wouldn’t that mean the Lelouch now has a ‘Code’ and has now 1000000000000HP with Insta-Regen and Invincibility?
    Meh. Just my thoughts.

59. @puti September 28th, 2008 9:12 pm

    but basicly i likd the descreteness of the whole situation and i think R2 means lulu is now R R so thts y he wudnt come up wid sumthing desperate as tht. Moreover in the 2nd or 3rd last episode V V went like ” winin or losin not important” (or sum shit like tht) which mite also be an indiacation tht she already knew bout lulus plan which ultimately worked nicely…….so if i m rite i think it was a twisty but lets jus say “decent” ending

60. schmusedecke September 28th, 2008 10:08 pm

    I hate you, too, Lelouch. T_T But if it’s true that you’re now the wagon driver, I’m fine with it. (But I suggest you tell Nunally and Suzaku the truth instead. And that you four just go on wandering… maybe with Super Maid with you). It would sound like I’m suggesting a lame ending, but, meh, I want something like that that something as lonely as the one you came up with. Such a masochist.

    But I think it’s a good ending. My annoyance with Nunally vanished the instant she cried. Yeah, I’m that easily swayed.

61. FireStarter September 28th, 2008 10:09 pm

    I just realized something.
    everyone has been complaining how Karen’s character got ruined, but it’s actually Lelouch’s “keikaku doori”. I mean she could have joined Lelouch if he asked her, but he wanted Karen to be his enemy so that she can “finish off” Suzaku as one of the requirement for Zero Requiem. So her character was not ruined, she just got played into Lelouch’s plan, that’s all.

62. Livewire September 28th, 2008 10:18 pm

    Not to sound like a noob or anything but what is OVA?

    lol :]

    I’ve watched the whole series and i didn’t overly-like the ending yet it was i guess you could say the best way to end it, i don’t see any other way to end it because of the fact that Lelouch was hated so much, even if he did stay Emperor, everyone would hate him…

    So other than all the weird little bits here and there; GREAT ENDING!

63. schmusedecke September 28th, 2008 10:23 pm

    Regarding Lulu attaining Code:

    Maybe it was unexpected. Maybe neither C.C nor Lulu knew that he could actually attain it; after all, in the fight with Charles, Lulu accomplished the impossible.

64. Ominae September 28th, 2008 10:32 pm

    @ Calawain

    - If he can’t do it, then his hidden blade (Assuming he still has it) and his kickass martial arts can do the stuff with the ninja maid. Not sure how Anya can fight the orange thieves. Take pictures of them and annoy them? XP

65. Mikazuki Sakura September 28th, 2008 10:58 pm

    Movie?
    Just for C.C.’s name?

    Season 3?
    Just to close the mystery in R2?

    Assumed title- Code Geass: Aftermath of the Rebellion S2 (Suzaku will reconcile with Lelouch by killing C.C. and snatch her code and there, Happy Ending.

    OVA?
    For what?
    But I want to see a granny Kallen talking to her first love who never loose his charms after 50 years.

    And Lelouch planned to be “dead” so that he’ll confirmed if he got his daddy’s code, and I think he did so congratulations.

    C.C. won’t be talking to a dead. She’s immortal, enough for her to be mind about how she could die, but not a retard. (She talked to Marianne before, right, but it was revealed that she WAS NOT dead, but rather resided inside Anya until she can reconcile with her hubby for the Ragnarok Junction.)

66. Alen September 28th, 2008 11:11 pm

    In the end the 2 most powerful nation and 2 best friends had vanish and the world had been united under the name of Zero Requiem!! All Hail The Real Hero N Demon!! Lelouch vi Britania!! haha… I like the ending and hate the ending cos it too sad!! T.T

    PS : i do hope it will had an OVA which tell about how everyone doing after Lelouch die. A more detail not like a flash like in the end of episode 25….

67. Alen September 28th, 2008 11:28 pm

    sorry i forgot to added something… i think that lelouch really had dead cos no body could survive this deadly stab without the code and does anyone realise that lelouch palm doesn’t have the code? N i think that C.C. code will be transfer to Suzaku as in the last part lelouch got say that Suzaku will had to sacrifice all his own happiness for the world eternally…

68. saijin September 28th, 2008 11:59 pm

    I think Lelouch is immortal, he show the past viewing technique with his sister before he die is’nt it? Only immortal can do that is’nt it? So I don’t think this will be the last…

69. Onizuka September 29th, 2008 12:11 am

    well first of JEREMIAH “ORANGE” GOTTWALD = godlike awesomeness i repeated watching that scene like 5 times and i m still not satisfied

    LMAO stevie wonder is rushing in with guns blazing you don’t see that everyday luckly the scene was changed quickly before it showed he ran onto a lightpole

    Kallen suddenly realizing what Lulu had planed when she saw zero did not really surprise me much i was expecting her to learn of it one way or the other but from the scene other people who also might also have realized this are Cornelia and Kaguya there was an earlier scene in which Kaguya was rescuing C.C and C.C said that ” she(Kaguya) didn’t know of Lulu’s face until recently and yet she was able to understand one part of his true nature and C.c said she was such a gentle person” also they showed her reaction twice in the death scene first was before Lulu got stabed and second was the Lulu’s death just after Kallen’s

    overall Lulu’s death was handled well i felt a few tears trying to escape when Nunnally realized what he did and then he died(or did he really)

    my guess for possible matterial for an oav or movie for this series is that schwachamaculit breaks free of his geass hey Nunnally did all that was needed was time and will power

70. FireStarter September 29th, 2008 12:16 am

    Just because Xing-ke was not in the wedding picture doesn’t mean he’s dead.
    Did anyone notice that Xing-ke’s knightmare frame Shen-hu was there when empress Nunally shakes hands with Prime Minister Ohgi? I guess he’s not dead but too busy to attend Ohgi X Villeta Wedding, or perhaps he’s the Cameraman. hehe.

71. FireStarter September 29th, 2008 12:33 am

    @ Onizuka

    I don’t think Schneizel will break free of Lelouch’s Geass, but rather Lelouch’s Geass has a time limit. Remember the test he did to see the duration of his Geass in Season 1. He made a girl in school to carve a “+” symbol at the rooftop every day. But a year later, in episode 5 in R2 after he regained his memory, notice that the last symbol carved was a “-”. So the irl either died while she was carving the last symbol, or his Geass lost its effect, which suggests that Schneizel will once again become the enemy.
    There’s also a theory that Lelouch could’ve got Charles’s code, because he pretty much killed his father in the World of C. However he still has his Geass, for it was from C.C not V.V. So there is a chance that he will come back and save the world from Schneizel again. All Hail Lelouch the Ultimate.

72. abcd September 29th, 2008 12:43 am

    GOD when i saw the lancelot explode i was like yes suzuku died, but aigh in the end too bad ;(. Well anyway if u guys think about it, its VERY possible that lelouch did gain the immortality code, if u watch the scenes from where the 2 month time skip happens in the episode to his death u see no evidence that he has his geass anymore, which would support him gaining immortality, and that could be the reason that CC is crying at the time because now he has to suffer and eternity of life, leading to the possibility that lelouch took CC’s Code. well thts one theory anyways,but i actually think its better that lelouch in my mind died, it just put an end to this trainwreck that started after episode 13, though i really felt that no justice was brought to lelouch in the end he was sort of justified and though his character is stained forever to the world atleast some understood him in the end. The way i see it continuing the series would be meaningless since lelouch is now dead to everyone (except possibly cc) and bringing him back would just be a “WTF” moment, though i am still pretty mad that the story ended like tht for him with so many plot holes and such surrounding the series theres not much that can be done about it now, even though they left such a great debate left over to wheather lelouch is dead or not the writers probably wanted it that way since the series was so rushed anyways.

73. Derby3 September 29th, 2008 1:11 am

    A few people made mention of it, but nunally’s “mind reading” strongly suggests that lulu inherited the code, remember when C.C. made contact with someone they would see into her past. I don’t recall nunally picking up any mind reading techniques, so that’s about the only thing that explains it.

74. Sagittarius September 29th, 2008 1:31 am

    When Lulu does something, there is always a twist somewhere, so I suspect he survived. LOL

75. Shitsu (don't have my katakana working right now...) September 29th, 2008 1:33 am

    NO ONE NOTICED!!! (At least before CJ’s first post- I didn’t feel like reading more…) Does ANYONE remember how Lelouch started the battle? That sword was his symbol- he said it would bring about justice!

    As for Nunally, I believe that memories are transferred when the code is transferred, so she may have the code. Or, there might have been more to Lelouch’s order. AKA, “When I am dying and you touch me, you shall inherit all of my memories and thoughts*.”

    *By the magic of the geass or by telling her (but that would take a looong time).

    EDIT: Derby3 might also be correct.

76. Shitsu September 29th, 2008 2:17 am

    Forgot/read past CJ’s post. R1 = Rebellion 1. R2 = Rebellion 2. I’m sorry, but can you really be that stupid? And if anything, Lulu will become L.L. in honor of his first and (fake) last name, and the first four letters of his nickname.

    Also, THANK YOU Firestarter for this post:

    I just realized something.
    everyone has been complaining how Karen’s character got ruined, but it’s actually Lelouch’s “keikaku doori”. I mean she could have joined Lelouch if he asked her, but he wanted Karen to be his enemy so that she can “finish off” Suzaku as one of the requirement for Zero Requiem. So her character was not ruined, she just got played into Lelouch’s plan, that’s all.
    –
    My agreement with you is strong. Trainwreck my ass…

77. VentriX September 29th, 2008 2:38 am

    And so it is that Lelouch ascends the rank of immortals as the great R2!!!!!
    All Hail R2!!!

    XD

78. VentriX September 29th, 2008 2:48 am

    @Shitsu

    Gud point about RR, but that still leaves the unexplained “memory transfer” that Nunnally experienced upon touching C2…
    Either sunrise was just looking for a convenient way of redeeming Lelouch with Nunnally, or it’s actually part of a greater story….

    Eitherway, Lelouch might have accpeted his death, but fans like me DO NOT!!!

    The ending was great though, brings back nostalgic memories of the death of Saber during the end…. Hate the music though, “Colors” would have been a better choice, or one of the insert songs by Hitomi.

79. S September 29th, 2008 3:57 am

    Jesus Christ, people still overthinking what is essentially a pop mecha show? Isn’t that schtick years old by now?

    That said, I lol’d on “mano-a-womano”. Nicely done.

    At the very least, I think this show wrapped things up rather nicely without rushing too much like Macross Frontier at least. CG could have been better, but I think it’s still one of the most memorable mecha shows I can remember.

80. richard September 29th, 2008 4:27 am

    alright, there are so many clues that say that lelouch is still alive

    1) Lelouch was able to transport memories to Nunnaly (remember what happened when C.C.’s memories were transferred to Lelouch first season? This points to Lelouch having a code)

    2) Lelouch and C.C. vow to stand by each other as allies FOREVER

    3) For the critical thinkers and those who really pay attention… the Code was questionably passed to Lelouch ( ep21, When Charles chokes Lelouch with his hand, where his code appears, the final disintegration of charles is without his hand…. which implies it stayed with Lelouch. The code activates after you die, e.g. Charles shooting himself and the Nun killing C.C.)

    4) The wagon driver was not revealed, and C.C. talks directly to Lelouch saying that the power of kings makes you solitary, but not entirely true. Therefore, can Lelouch be not solitary if he’s dead, or not solitary with C.C…. Makes all the sense in the world you guys…

    Final Conclusion: Lelouch is Alive! All those who wanted a Lelouch C.C. ending like i did, i hope this confirmation gave you proper resolution to the series C.C. and Lelouch will forever live together as immortals…

81. TzLego September 29th, 2008 4:45 am

    Is it just me, or hell, Euphys on the wedding pic? wtf?!

82. dude cg is great September 29th, 2008 5:55 am

    Honestly I think that Lulu is alive, it would be logical for him to live because this peaceful future he has devised will not last long and he would need to be alive to maintain this peace. If he is immortal he would be able to manipulate the world into a peaceful state whenever its on a brink of destruction. If all that I have said is true then its C.C. x Lelouch all the way.

83. dude cg is great September 29th, 2008 6:26 am

    Oh yea Btw, what’s up with the Arthur allusions, they didn’t really go anywhere with it. I was a bit interested on how they would connect the two but they didn’t really do it. Hmm I’ll leave it at that but anyways as I was reminiscing about Code Geass in the shower, it struck me that the ending reminded me of The Dark Knight. How the real hero took all the faults of everyone upon himself.

    Don’t you guys think it would have been a more effective ending if Lulu answered C.C. back in the end. I don’t know about you guys but that’s exactly what I was expecting, then when the ending theme came I was heartbroken. That’s what I get for having high hopes.

    It was definitely a fun ride aboard S.S. Lamperouge, but I truly hope they would come out with OVAs.

84. akusatou September 29th, 2008 7:05 am

    Just a thought,

    Ever wondered about the naming of the action itself?

    Zero Requiem

    Could it mean the song of the dead for zero? or possibly zero as a numerical value for nothing which would imply the absence of requiem??

    Also, I think that Lelouch isn’t dead. I think it’s possible that he inherited the code from C.C. I doubt he’d get it from his father, the rationale is because when you gain the code, you lose your powers. He clearly had his powers at multiple times before finally gaining control of the Damocles. What you don’t see is his use of his powers in the final scenes of the episode. I would think that the transfer of the code occurred between the final battle and this final scene. Also it seems interesting that as Suzaku kills Lelouch, he gives him the task or “geass” to help the world.

    Also, since he contains the code, and has lost his original geass powers, it’s not like his coming back will really change things. He’s already said his farewell to all and everyone believes him to be dead. The world as it exists is based around the fact that he’s dead and they live on moving forward with the opportunity Lelouch has given to them. It reminds me heavily of the Bible and Jesus dying for everybody and then saying that he’ll come back someday as opposed to him coming back out in the open and saying “howdy guys, i’m not really dead or anything, but pretend like i am and live with hope?”

    There is one thing that I do have to wonder about is if Suzaku knows if the code brings immortality and if he knows if Lelouch has the code. If that were the case, then I doubt he’d cry when he kills Lelouch which argues the case that if Suzaku knows about the code and its immortality, then Lelouch really is dead. I’m just not aware of any circumstances in which Suzaku was revealed to have possessed this knowledge.

    But other than that, I did enjoy the series as a whole and how it ended. It is interesting to see how Suzaku killed his own father to peaceably stop the war which resulted in the turmoil that occurred throughout the series and how killing Lelouch created the peace that the series ends upon.

85. no namae September 29th, 2008 7:36 am

    regarding supa-maido, im pretty sure i saw her in the cell with Rakshata, ’round minute 14, since Loid and the others are jailed it makes sense.

    I liked the ending, count me in with those who believe Lelouch has the code (lots of church scenes with CC, and also Orange-kun wouldn’t be so happy; they had two monts to transfer it after all and it also explains why Nunnally reacted when she touched him)

86. Halcyon September 29th, 2008 8:06 am

    Lelouch is not alive. If he were alive, he would’ve been revived immediately after he died in front of a truckload of people.

    Reviving after death isn’t something that takes months in Geass. It’s something that happens within a few minutes (See: C.C., V.V., Charles for examples).

    Final Conclusion: He’s dead.

87. akusatou September 29th, 2008 8:37 am

    Unfortunately, that would only make sense if at his time of death and the immediate events thereafter were shown. What I recall seeing is his death and fall onto the platform below where Nunnally realized the truth of the matter. I also recall Jeremiah ordering a full retreat as the citizens and the rest of the world rushed to the scene to free the hostages and to take control of the situation. This leads me to believe that you really don’t get to see what happens to his body moments after his death. I don’t make the claim that it would have taken months for him to revive, what I do claim however is that there is a good probability and possibility that Lelouch’s body was taken away from the public where he could possibly recover and be the driver in the final scene.

88. 13 September 29th, 2008 9:17 am

    “when you gain the code, you lose your powers”

    thats when you gain the code from the same person who gave you the geass, if you got it form someone else, then you keep your geass.

    V.V obviously gave charles the geass thats why when charlie took his code, no more memory geass hax.

    Because of this, I dont think that anyone even lelouch realized that he had the code.

    its possible that orange took the body as he retreated or something. It took c.c a while to revive, charles not so much, its not set in stone that they have to revive right away, that was basically used for plot purposes. but since other evidence (like the memory exchange) points to the fact that hes alive I say that the nit picks of how long it took him to revive are meaningless.

    ALL HAIL LELOUCH!!

    (yes hes alive, sorry halcyon but you’re wrong;)

89. Raindog September 29th, 2008 10:19 am

    also consider that he may have revived there but just played possom

90. Halcyon September 29th, 2008 10:20 am

    If you really think that, after being presumed dead once already, Cornelia/Schneizel/the UFN and the BK wouldn’t have checked if Lelouch was actually dead you’re smoking crack.

    There’s also, no way in bloody hell, that Nunnally was letting go of her Oniisama’s dead body. Chances are, everyone confirmed Lelouch before moving on.

    Also, the speculation about Lelouch receiving Charles’ code is just fucking dumb. There’s no evidence to support that. That’s just a delusional fantasy. Charles did not GIVE his code to anyone. The Code has to either be forcibly given to a recipient (as was the case with C.C.) or taken by the recipient (as was the case with Charles). It’s pretty clear that Charles wanted to kill Lelouch or at the very least stop him from messing up his plans. He wasn’t going to give Lelouch his code. Lelouch also did not want to live forever so it’s HIGHLY unlikely that he took Charles’ code by force.

    Lelouch wanted to die to atone for all of his sins and all of the deaths he felt responsible for (Shirley, Rolo, Euphie, etc). He had already passed on responsibility of watching over the world to Suzaku, there was nothing left for him to live for.

91. skoll September 29th, 2008 12:15 pm

    He’s dead.

    It’s better that he’s dead, or else his sacrifice has no meaning.

    I actually was completely bereft of homolust vibes at the pink sword impalation. I thought it was done pretty well. Fitting last words.

92. Jay September 29th, 2008 12:17 pm

    Lelouch is still alive.

    1) When Charles and Marianne were killed in C’s world, Suzaku stated that he must kill Lelouch and take revenge for Euphemia. Then they cut straight to where Lelouch became emperor. If an OVA comes out I would expect to see a continuation of this scene that shows Suzaku Slaying Lelouch only to find out that Lelouch was then immortal. Then that’s when the final plan of Zero Requiem came to be.

    The Code was questionably passed to Lelouch When Charles chokes Lelouch with his hand, where his code appears, the final disintegration of charles is without his hand…. which implies it stayed with Lelouch. The code activates after you die.

    This is an interesting point and may be true or maybe just an over analysis. In that scenario, both Lelouch and C.C. are then immortal. Interesting….

    Another possible scenario is that Suzaku did kill Lelouch in C’s world and as Lelouch was drawing his last breaths, C.C. gave him her code to save him. Her one driving force in serving Lelouch was that she couldn’t let him die so he can complete his promise to her. This could also be an over analysis on my part, but it does make some sense. In that case, C.C. became mortal and could have died in her fight with Kallen. That would also explain her desire to win that fight.

    2) C.C’s original wish when she was given the power of Geass was to be loved. Even though her power gave her that wish, it wasn’t true love and she eventually locked it away. Her wish then became to die, becuase she had become disgusted with life, but was immortal. The entire reason she made the bargain with Lelouch in the first place.

    Then she fell in love with Lelouch and started to long for a life with him and started caring for happiness and victory which was sort of stated during her final battle with Kallen. Lelouch was the first true love that she had ever felt. For her to display a sort of happiness at the end talking to Lelouch out loud stating that Geass doesn’t bring solitude after all clearly is a sign that he is still alive.

    This point stands out even more so that C.C. herself is alive and happy since the only reason she could be both happy and alive is with Lelouch. Otherwise she would either be dead as originally promised by Lelouch, or be completely depressed and distraught that Lelouch did not keep his original promise to her before he died. When I saw her crying at the church, I thought that was the case, but then the very end kills that theory. So Lelouch is still alive.

    If it was C.C. who gave Lelouch immortality, that would mean that she is mortal. Then there is absolutely no reason she should be alive, she could have just simply committed suicide. Unless she intends to live the rest of her life with Lelouch and have that love that she always wanted but never thought would exist for her.

    3) The point when Lelouch is dying, Nunnaly receives the images of what Lelouch planned. The only time that has happened is by C.C. who is immortal. This also supports that Lelouch is immortal as C.C. is or once was.

    4) When Suzaku drove his sword through Lelouch, did Lelouch give Suzaku the power of Geass. This also would suggest that Lelouch is immortal. Suzaku stated that he accepts this Geass. It could have been the curse of being Zero for life and the will to live bestowed by Lelouch’s Geass. Perhaps Suzaku himself now posses his own unique power.

    - Either way the writers did their jobs well. By knowingly sparking this debate, they have successfully done their jobs and left plenty of room for expansion on the story line. However, if Code Geass is left as is with no more story to tell, then the ending has also served it’s purpose in closing out the main goal that Lelouch set To accomplish: “TO CREATE A WORLD WHERE HIS SISTER NUNNALY COULD LIVE IN HAPPINESS AND HAVE EVERY OPPORTUNITY AT HER DISPOSAL.”

    She is now her own person with her own goals, ideals and ambitions to follow. His new world is for her and by extension to the all those who were living in fear, persecution and were denied the chance live to their fullest potential.

    But I sure hope the story continues, there are a lot of unanswered questions.
    1- Is Lelouch really alive? Is he Immortal?
    2- Is C.C. still immortal? Did she pass it on to Lelouch?
    3- Did Lelouch give Suzaku a real Geass Power? What Geass power is it?
    4- The possibilities in exploring the origins of Geass. Where did it come from?

    There can even be a season 3 in store for us.

93. Zentari September 29th, 2008 12:37 pm

    @Halcyon:Nice thinking , but it kinda falls apart when you realise that months didn’t pass with us watching, since the timeskip started right after his death (thus no one knows what happened, not me and certainly not you).
    You seem to believe if Lelouch lived, it must have been planned,which is not necessarily the case.On top of that we know next to NOTHING about the code: for all Lelouch knew, offing daddy could give him the ticket.The only part we seem to agree on is that you need to die to activate it.
    Also if Lelouch is dead ,how do you explain all those things that happened (Nunally seeing his memories etc.) and besides all that, why did they go out of their way to conceal the driver ? Hell, it could have been a random old guy,but it wasn’t.

    You are free to believe whatever you want, but you are standing on the same ground as us.From a neutral position, it could be either way.

    @skoll: Not really.If he planned on surviving then yeah, but I don’t see why he should be discredited just because he got lucky for the FIRST time in his life.

94. Chaotic Reaper September 29th, 2008 1:35 pm

    A stunning episode, not very many big plot twists that we all know Sunrise loves to throw at us. I saw the his death at the end coming(sopposed death i should say, but ill get back to that in a sec) Now Sunrise loves to pull “magictricks” and when i say this i mean they give you big stunning events to avert your attetion away from small details. Lelouch death being the big eye averter. I may be gettin a little off topic here but there is a point i promise. Now sunrise has done this before in the series popped “illusions” to grab focus away from the real picture. but now on to the main point after watching the episode a few times over i grabbed these details that our old pal lelouch has the deed of fooling us once again.

    Facts to consider from the series on Geass and the Code
    1.When the person who weilds the geass reaches a certain level of power the code can be received
    2.The code only activates once that person dies once.
    3.the original code bearer will live after the exchange unless one of two things occur they are wounded fataly before giving the code(V.V.’s case) or they are killed by the new code bearer.
    4. The code once activated alows the bearer to show someone he/she touches disturbing images and memories.

    Things to consider about why lelouch would stay alive after his death
    1.We know lelouch well by this point and even if does go a little “crazy” at times he keeps promise to friends and hates seeing them hurt.(not really a good one but i just wanted to put that one out there)
    2.Now lelouch made promises to 2 people things he would do when this was all over
    a.Suzaku-to make the world forget about euphys crime through their joint hatred towards him
    b. C.C.-to give her happiness and allow her to die with a smile on her face
    3.Now he completed the promise made to suzaku quite well through zero requim
    4. C.C. on the other hand we didnt “see” her wish completed(to be loved)
    5. pertaining to #4 (if you havent figured this out by now then stop reading and go play with a paddle ball because this isnt gonna do anything for you) CC loves lelouch and wanted to live out her life with him he was indeed the first person she loved truly as “Jay” put it. And lelouch became quite aware of this so the only way he could fufill her wish was to be with her in the end( meaning him dieing would kinda be anti-climatic for her)
    6.Now we come back to his sister even though lelouch has absoult faith in Suzaku(god only knows why) knowing him im guessing hed want to keep an eye on her from a good distance.
    7. Now as for the last one for this part of my little section lelouch i master of strategy and it wouldnt be hard for him to figure the plan out for him to complete his wish to BOTH Suzaku and CC

    Now here is the final section a bet your tired of reading this, huh?(XP)

    Evidence of Lelouch gaining the code and his survival
    1.pay attetion in the seen when CC is crying do you think those are tears of joy or sadness. Aso look at her forhead keenly in this scene(i mean frame by frame it if you have to.) you see see no code,eh?
    2. the second nunaly touches lelouches hand he shows her his and suzaku’s entire plan through his memories, and what does that mean class? it means he received the code. catching on now?
    3.Now i know some of you think him and CC gained the same bond like the one she had when mariane died(good theory but easily disproven)you have to rember that when cc talked to mariane, her soul was still on this plane of exstince just in a different body( thanks to her geass) If lelouch really died he wouldnt be be able to talk to her subconsciously, see ing as the fact of the matter was that he would no longer be in this plane of exstence)
    4.referring to the one above CC looked way to cheerful for the one person she ever loved to have just died.(see what im gettin at here?)
    5.Now this one i thought was odd off the bat but didnt pick it up till my third time thorugh the episode. the cart driver now why in gods name would his face be covered if it was just some random person, eh? also you do slightly notice black hair. but like i said sunrise likes to keep ur attetion away from the bigger picture. and they like to play the game of just how well you have been paying attetion to their show. Now some you stubborn people and you know who you are, are gonna read this and say “pheesh he’s crazy,etc.” but the whole point of being in a discuss is to be open minded and see all side of an argument until you have enough evidence to base an answer. And on my final note till the series review i will say this i welcome you to disprove me and i hope this has helped some of you decide if he is alive or dead.

95. akusatou September 29th, 2008 1:51 pm

    To Halycon’s comment, it’s funny to presume that real world logic would exist in a fictional world. We don’t question things like the float system or things like knightmares, yet we seem to question things that are more relative to our current realities.

    As for who gave him the code, I wouldn’t be sure as to the origins of the transfer, but as for Lelouch not wanting to live forever, given his circumstances, he changes his mind on many issues relative to the situation around him. I’m sure that he did want to die in order to pay for all of his sins that he had committed in destroying the world. However, I also think that since he has the opportunity to survive death, the symbolism of his murder by Zero would accomplish his end goal. Personally I see Lelouch as someone who is kind and his wish is to fulfill the wishes of those around him. The only wish that I don’t see him fulfilling is Nunnally’s wish that he should live, even though he really does ^_~

    What I offer is simply speculation and shouldn’t be taken as factual and what I truly believe. I just like to think that with all of the curveballs this series has thrown, why would this last one be a straight shot?

96. Rosstafarian September 29th, 2008 1:53 pm

    I loved CG even if LeLouch died, because it was a good plan and i was so happy that suzaku didn’t die, and i kid of knew that this would be one of those things where the main character would die like DeathNote because they keep making the main character the evil person that kills everyone and manipulates them to his will,still i was was happy when it was revealed that it was to end the hatred, and that Nunally was shown his true intentions but sad when she did her cry and i was on the verge of tears throught the whole montage with the plan and everyone looking,
    I also hope that they make an OVA or maybe a story about some one in other than Japan that gets geass like the Europe union or china, a whole new story that has like interlocking parts from the original. well that actually sound like a ban fan fic but yeah i just don’t want the story to end sort of like the Twilight series. or maybe a prequel of how the Emperor got his Geass and mat VV and ends when Marianne dies and LeLouch leaves.
    Also there are a lot of lose ends to tie up like what actually happens to the characters in the end or maybe LeLouch took CC code and it actually still alive that would be cool. Like how do we know? CC did say right LeLouch but she always talks about random things like when she used to talk to Marianne before she was killed.

97. Chaotic Reaper September 29th, 2008 2:18 pm

    One more note to my long list above(sorry i left this out i was kinda typing through it fast.

    6.Pay attetion to 2 other things in the end
    a. one being where see is talking to lelouch at the end look where her head and eyes tilt when she say “right lelouch?” Now some people will say that she is looking at the sky, which is a obviously normal place for a person to look to talk to someone who is dead
    b. notice the origami bird at the end there? Now 2 questions arise from this.
    1. what is its significance.(as in why would they show that at the end)
    2.why is gods name would cc keep that with her wouldnt that be more of a keep sake for lelouch(rember his sister made those birds, and you see lelouch carrying it around alot in the series. Ah you see the picture has now been painted.

98. kyokii September 29th, 2008 2:49 pm

    Well, well… I saw the episode the first time and I was like “OH SHI-, Lelouch is dead!” and I started trolling people who were in denial for my lulz. After all, denial is the first stage out of the five stages in the process of grieving… right? But then I got to thinking about it and I feel it’s fairly reasonable Lelouch is alive in spite of my original claim.

    I have to agree with Chaotic Reaper’s theory, which is more or less how I rationalized Lelouch’s survival; I agreed with all of his said points… especially about Nunnally’s visions upon touching Lelouch, which means Lelouch has the Code and therefore, he has immortality. To make my point here more clear, remember the same thing happened to Suzaku in season 1 when he made contact with CC? Suzaku saw flashbacks of CC’s past similar to what happened to Nunnally when she touched Lelouch.

    And Yes… I did notice the wagon drivers black hair after going through it the second time. Lelouch is one of the few characters who has black hair in Code Geass. While this is relatively weak evidence, it does support the theory that the wagon driver is Lelouch… CC angles her head back and asks “Right, Lelouch?” SO… either CC was talking to Lelouch, the wagon driver, or she has become demented and delusional. Which I would find to be rather amusing… lol.

    You also mentioned the origami crane, Chaotic Reaper… your idea about it makes sense.

99. j September 29th, 2008 3:33 pm

    in response to Chaotic Reapers ideas –

    i think it’s Charles who gave Lelouch the Code .

100. Insider September 29th, 2008 3:45 pm

     Kyokii just look a the thin black hair of the driver, it is in the middle of the cheek…… got it!!!! Now just put any image of Lelouch an look at this face, the thinnest hair of Lelouch in in the middle of his cheek, between the mouth and the eyes. There is another profe that Lelouch is alive

101. Chaotic Reaper September 29th, 2008 3:46 pm

     the charles giving lelouch code theory is good and possible. But you have to remember something lelouch had to take or be given it and i highly doubt charles would pass his imortality to the son that just ruined his plans. And lelouch at the time cared little about his own life to steal the code. But none the less a good theory.
     And with that theory its possible for both lulu and cc to live together forever

102. i hope theres more September 29th, 2008 4:05 pm

     Once again, alluding back to the dark knight thing, if you think about it you could correlate many ideas that are similar with Code Geass.

     Suzaku-Two Face(Zero(Hero)/Suzaku(Villain)
     Lelouch-Batman

     Just a thought

     But yea I agree with Chaotic Reaper, Lelouch is alive. I would love to see an OVA that maybe sees into the future. If they could just make that CC x Lelouch official, I’d be glad. Before they come out with those OVAs if they make them, what to do?

103. CJ September 29th, 2008 4:09 pm

     Man I can’t believe I’m saying this considering I’m extremely against character resucitation, I mean if you’re going to go through the effort of killing a character then just do it geez, but I actually want lelouch to be alive I mean he’s just so cool and his death is to sad for a series that gave me such lulz =/
     Please Sunrise since you’ve liked to mess with us mess with us and make a movie witha fantasy pony ending just for the fans. Lelouch’s death scene was the first time I’ve cried viewing anime (almost cried at euphy’s death because it was sad but I wasn’t really atached to that character). Lelouch’s death was the first time I’ve cried while viewing anime, I almost cried at euphy’s death because of the sadness of it but I wasn’t that emotionally atached to that character. Lelouch I will forever miss your extreme hand gestures while you talked and the dramatic flare you placed into everything you did you my friend should be the best drama writer in the world but alas now you’re in heaven watching your father burn in the depths of hell. T-T T-T T-T T-T T-T T-T T-T

104. Halcyon September 29th, 2008 4:25 pm

     @Zentari

     Nice thinking , but it kinda falls apart when you realise that months didn’t pass with us watching, since the timeskip started right after his death (thus no one knows what happened, not me and certainly not you).

     The point is, when someone who has received a Code dies they are immediately revived as was the case with C.C., V.V. and Charles. If Lelouch had received a Code from Charles he would’ve revived immediately after he ‘died’ during the Black Knights and Cornelia’s storming the parade.

     You seem to believe if Lelouch lived, it must have been planned,which is not necessarily the case.On top of that we know next to NOTHING about the code: for all Lelouch knew, offing daddy could give him the ticket.The only part we seem to agree on is that you need to die to activate it.

     What we do know about the code is that:

     A. It must be either forcibly taken by someone or forced ONTO someone.
     B. The only ‘candidate’ that people are positing that happening to was Charles.

     I’ve already debunked the theory of Charles’ code passing onto Lelouch. No one can refute this. Charles certainly didn’t force it onto his greatest enemy and Lelouch had no reason or desire to take it. Immortality was not a part of Lelouch’s end-game strategy.

     Also if Lelouch is dead ,how do you explain all those things that happened (Nunally seeing his memories etc.) and besides all that, why did they go out of their way to conceal the driver ?

     Firstly, I don’t have to explain it. I’m not the writer of the show. It’s Geass, half of the show never made sense in the first place. Not all of the pieces are going to fit neatly into place as I’ve already noted the various open plot threads in my FIRST reply to this blog entry.

     Secondly, Nunnally’s “ability” to see memories wasn’t limited to Lelouch. Nunnally has been able to tell whether or not people have lied to her by touching their hands for quite a few episodes now. The writers never explain how or why she can do that. AGAIN as I’ve already noted in my first post.

     Her “seeing” Lelouch’s memories is not related to the code. At all. That’s just people grasping at straws. Most of the time when someone came into contact with a code (Anya, Suzaku, etc) they were momentarily stunned and had no memory or recollection of the moments immediately following the contact. This was not the case with Nunnally as she continued to bawl her eyes out and press herself into her dead Onii-sama’s chest.

     Hell, it could have been a random old guy,but it wasn’t.
     There’s no evidence to support that the cart driver is Lelouch.
     It’s simply a delusional fantasy from fanboys who do not want to let go.
     The cart driver does not have Lelouch’s Geass eyes or any other distinct features attributable to Lelouch. He also does not possess a Code and that’s the only way Lelouch would’ve been able to survive being impaled by a sword and bleeding to death in front of a crowd of people, including his own sister.

     You are free to believe whatever you want, but you are standing on the same ground as us.From a neutral position, it could be either way.

     I’m pretty sure they showed him on the floor bleeding to death. No one who has gone through that experience (Shirley, Diethard, etc) has survived this. Furthermore, they haven’t conclusively showed Lelouch reviving. This is speculation on the fans’ part due to the last 10 seconds of the show.

     The entire basis for people even speculating Lelouch surviving is because C.C. tilts her head towards the sky a few degrees and utters a two-word Sentence.

105. Lute September 29th, 2008 6:52 pm

     Lelouch is alive.

     Blog (Pics) :

     http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/...

     Blog (Explanation) :

     http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/…

106. Lute September 29th, 2008 6:55 pm

     There’s other websites with good arguments about the Charles code thing.

107. Lute September 29th, 2008 6:56 pm

     Alive.

     Blog (Pics) :

     http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/...

     Blog (Explanation) :

     http://animeotaku.animeblogger.net/2008/…

108. Zwander September 29th, 2008 7:06 pm

     Why, why did it end. Well was ok ending I guess but fuck you Sunrise now we have to buy that stupid DvD and soon code geass doujins will stop noooo!!!!!!!! Well w.e. Can’t wait till series post.

109. ixbite September 29th, 2008 8:45 pm

     The ending for this series was pretty damn obvious once Rolo died. I completely foresaw Lelouch’s death…and I still cried my eyes out. I kept rewatching this over…and over…and everytime, I would cry. I would not stop. Though I have to say, the whole Suzaku being Zero thing was something I didn’t expect. Pretty damn sad and completely amazing. I love Lelouch’s smile when he’s about to die. He was all like “haha, my plan worked.” I kinda have to admit, it brought a little, tiny giggle out while I was crying. I really loved the way it ended though I hate ambigious endings. I like endings to be straight and clean where they fill in all the missing gaps. It’s pretty obvious there is no 3rd season (if they make one, I will go crazy) but I do hope there’s a OVA or something too. That’d be amazing!

110. The Merry Gambit September 29th, 2008 9:00 pm

     I have to admit this was one of my favorite anime endings. This story was such an emotional roller coaster. At times I absolutely hated Lelouche and other times I was saying to myself “what a crafty bastard this guy is!”

     The one thing that I did find completely unforgivable was bringing back Guilford…. I mean c’mon!!! The guy was disintegrated! I can kinda see Schneizel not killing his own sister and just aiming to disable her but Guilford?! WTF?!

     *sigh* now that I have that out of my system lets get on to this Lelouch Alive or dead business.

     I’ve probably watched the ending about 5 times now and analyzed it several times and between the telepathic memory transfer to nunnaly, Orange-Kun’s grinning reactions and C.C.’s final words I think it’s pretty obvious that Lelouch is alive.

     I also think it’s pretty obvious that C.C. gave lelouch her code so that he could pull it off. Because if you go back to the previous episode she told him to make sure he upholds his promise to have her “die with a smile”.

     I think that right before the parade, after all the plans for his assasination were made, he had C.C. transfer her code to him. Then afterwards he notified Jeramiah of his immortal condition and plans to be with C.C. This is why I think Jeremiah was always smiling when Suzaku assasinated Lelouch as Zero…. he knew that Lelouch wasn’t going to die at that point.

     From a logistical standpoint it makes sense as well because Jeremiah would be the only one that would easily be able to wisk Lelouch’s body away after the assasination so that he could reunite with C.C.

     Based upon Suzaku’s teary eyed reactions and Nunnally bawling her eyes out I don’t think either of them knew of his immortality. And he pretty much just had to play dead long enough to get out of site with the help of Jeremiah

     I do think that they hinted at lelouch’s fate a little vuagely because if you didn’t put the pieces together you wouldn’t have gotten it.

     What I think would have been the best and most dramatic way they could have done it would be to have C.C.’s hair blow away from her forehead to reveal that her code is gone right after she says “Eh Lelouch?”

     That would have been fairly amazing… but sadly they didn’t… oh well.

111. ahem « an hero to us all September 29th, 2008 9:35 pm

     [...] am partial to the writing of the aforementioned jp, kabitzin, the harem of that, omni’s hd screencaps especially when he spoiled me on shirley pulling an aeris, and the [...]

112. skoll September 29th, 2008 10:09 pm

     Like CJ, I am against character resuscitation. My contention with the ‘Lelouch is alive’ theory is not rooted in fact but in preference. I’ve always thought that life only has meaning if you die, and eternal life is always a cheapening of this. That, and it makes the final scene just that much worse.

113. fun September 29th, 2008 10:51 pm

     I think Lelouch is alive because in the end of Code Geass R2 episode 25 you see a pink origami bird in the end of the story. if you see again Code Geass R2 episode 6 you will see Lelouch with that pink origami bird while talking to cc. Cc don’t have that origami bird and the only person that will take a origami bird as memento, is Lelouch.

114. Epi September 29th, 2008 11:49 pm

     The REAL question is, what did Gendo say to Ritsuko before he killed her?

     P.S. Halycon is absolutely correct about Nunally not getting stunned, and about her longstanding hand holding abilities.

115. Grimmjow September 30th, 2008 2:03 am

     Guys, it’s pretty obvious that Lelouch had to die in the end no matter how much us fans wanted him to live on.

     But I support the theory that CC actually gave him the Code of Immortality and that the scene of CC kneeling the Chapel crying were tears of joy because Lelouch wanted to spend his remaining years with CC. Lelouch x CC!

     Also with Xing, I believe his dead. He wasn’t shown as one of those ‘traitors’ to be executed – I checked numerous times for his appearance after he charged with his damaged Mecha. There were photos on Kallen’s wall, many of which I thought were the Easter Eggs if you paused and looked closely. There is a photo that appears to be in the Chinese Federation back drop with Ougi on the left, Viletta on the right and Tristian and the little Princess in the middle. Under closer inspections I gasped seeing a person with long black hair in a white trench-coat style wear gazing out the window in the background of the photo. Sadly I concluded that it was Guildford, because why would Xing be standing at the back and not in the center with the Princess instead of Tristian. I’m pretty sure it’s implied that Tristian goes on to looking after her. People keep saying Xing is doing duties..? What duties? The fact his Mecha appeared in the scene with Nunnanly shaking hands with Ougi obviously means he died and his Mecha remains as a memory. Sadly I didn’t want him to die either, but Sunrise seriously left too many hints for his demise and not enough for his survival.

     In the big wedding photo, it’s implied;
     Kallen x Tristian
     Guildford x Cornelia (Obviously)
     Lloyd x Purple-Haird girl (Sorry – forgot her name)
     Toudou x Obviously the girl that asked him to marry her
     And I thought it was funny seeing a ‘Eupihe’ looka-like at the bottom near Nina implying obviously she is a lesbian, haha.

     In the end this anime was great. But did you guys realise that Jeremiah purposely (make it look like) he tried to stop Suzaku (in Zero form) and failed with a smile while falling. In my opinion I think he knew all along – he would never betray Lelouch. Also the Orange-kun x Anya obviously went for the ‘Marianne’ irony that she was once in her.

     All in all to conclude, Ougi was a fuckwit that deserved to die – excuse my French.

116. Grimmjow September 30th, 2008 2:06 am

     ROFL MY BAD!
     Xing is shown with the Princess at the end with the executions but never again.

117. FireStarter September 30th, 2008 3:05 am

     Funny how I didn’t shed one drop of tear when Euphy died but cried a river when Lelouch died.

118. FireStarter September 30th, 2008 3:10 am

     @ Grimmjow

     “Also with Xing, I believe his dead. ”

     Sorry to say this but Xing-ke is alive. He was with Tianzi at the execution ground. And in the end, his knightmare frame Shen-hu was there when Nunally and Ohgi shakes hands, and he is the only one who can pilot Shen-hu. So he is alive.

119. Myu September 30th, 2008 4:35 am

     I’m torn between wanting Lulu to just stay dead and wanting to hear Fukuyama’s mad cackle again.

     Hm.

120. FireStarter September 30th, 2008 8:29 am

     Does the fact that we are all discussing Lelouch’s death as if it really matters make us look like Otaku?

121. Maipeisu September 30th, 2008 11:04 am

     Not to beat a dead horse, but to the people who think that Jeremiah smiled in the end because he knew that Lulu was immortal (assuming that he wouldn’t smile at the prospect of Lulu dying), what do you think was/would be his reaction to knowing that Marianne was killed a second time? If he has any clue that Lulu might be immortal, I can’t see how he wouldn’t have learned of the events that took place between Lulu and his parents in the World of C. In fact, if Anya was capable of and decided to divulge her memories to him (he ungeassed her, right??), then he may know about Marianne and Charles’ little scheme anyway. I’m gonna venture out onto a precarious limb of analysis and suggest that his smile was not due to the fact that Lulu was alive, but the fact that his plans were finally coming to fruition. He must have at some point realized that his goal was not to protect Lulu’s death, but his *honor*. I’m not so sure that I readily buy the whole story that he is immortal and still alive. I mean, how could we respect him as a character if he didn’t die? He may be alive and floating somewhere in the ethers, but my bet is that Taniguchi, Sunrise, CLAMP and whoever else may have been involved laid out just enough evidence to satisfy both camps (i.e. “dead” versus “alive”) without leaning too far in either direction. They shall have their cake and eat it too!

     As for the rest of the characters, I don’t give a damn, so long as Diethard is six feet under. I’ll even forgive Ougi T_T

122. Zentari September 30th, 2008 11:54 am

     @Halcyon
     ‘The point is, when someone who has received a Code dies they are immediately revived as was the case with C.C., V.V. and Charles. If Lelouch had received a Code from Charles he would’ve revived immediately after he ‘died’ during the Black Knights and Cornelia’s storming the parade.’

     Really ? Because I could swear that time did pass after they were dead and even then we can still only make a hypothesis.Silly me.

     ‘I’ve already debunked the theory of Charles’ code passing onto Lelouch. No one can refute this. Charles certainly didn’t force it onto his greatest enemy and Lelouch had no reason or desire to take it. Immortality was not a part of Lelouch’s end-game strategy.’

     Since we don’t know HOW the code is passed exactly , your theory is NOT irrefutable.

     ‘Firstly, I don’t have to explain it. I’m not the writer of the show. It’s Geass, half of the show never made sense in the first place. Not all of the pieces are going to fit neatly into place as I’ve already noted the various open plot threads in my FIRST reply to this blog entry.’

     Yet you seem hellbend on having developed an “irrefutable” theory, kinda contradicting,no? On top of that, you ARE making an arguement here , so you DO have to explain it.

     ‘Secondly, Nunnally’s “ability” to see memories wasn’t limited to Lelouch. Nunnally has been able to tell whether or not people have lied to her by touching their hands for quite a few episodes now. The writers never explain how or why she can do that. AGAIN as I’ve already noted in my first post. ‘

     So her abilities as a living lie detector evolved into mind reading ? This theory sure has a lot of holes…

     ‘Her “seeing” Lelouch’s memories is not related to the code. At all. That’s just people grasping at straws. Most of the time when someone came into contact with a code (Anya, Suzaku, etc) they were momentarily stunned and had no memory or recollection of the moments immediately following the contact. This was not the case with Nunnally as she continued to bawl her eyes out and press herself into her dead Onii-sama’s chest.’

     All of those people had fully evolved the code,Lelouch’s hadn’t activated yet.Even IF (big if here ) Nunally reading Lelouch’s mind is unrelated , how do you explain it ?

     ‘There’s no evidence to support that the cart driver is Lelouch.
     It’s simply a delusional fantasy from fanboys who do not want to let go.
     The cart driver does not have Lelouch’s Geass eyes or any other distinct features attributable to Lelouch. He also does not possess a Code and that’s the only way Lelouch would’ve been able to survive being impaled by a sword and bleeding to death in front of a crowd of people, including his own sister.’

     You don’t see me calling you names so please refrain from doing so.Keeping it civil is the way to go.
     That aside, how do you know that the driver ISN’T Lelouch ? We never saw him, they made sure of that.For that matter, nearly no part of his body is visible so you can’t rule out him having the code (and vice-versa, confirm he has it).

     ‘I’m pretty sure they showed him on the floor bleeding to death. No one who has gone through that experience (Shirley, Diethard, etc) has survived this. Furthermore, they haven’t conclusively showed Lelouch reviving. This is speculation on the fans’ part due to the last 10 seconds of the show.’

     Marianne. Yeah, I know there were big differences etc. but I just wanted to point out that you shouldn’t take everything at face value.
     The golden word in there is conclusively: you can neither prove he lives nor that he died.

     ‘The entire basis for people even speculating Lelouch surviving is because C.C. tilts her head towards the sky a few degrees and utters a two-word Sentence.’

     Read the arguements that have been said so far once more then.Can you refute EACH and every one of them with a satisfying answer? So far, you haven’t.

123. Chaotic Reaper September 30th, 2008 1:01 pm

     @Zentari

     True none of us know wether he is alive nor dead. But consider these cross examinations of the points you brought up.
     Now your reply to Halcyon i agree with since sunrise didnt give us all the details on the code all we know is it has to be taken or received and lelouch at the time did not want it because his plans for cc and zero requim had not been made so there was no need. Now what stumps me about the code is that it seems that the user can choose how fast they heal and revive just from what ive seen in the show but this simply a speculation and does not have enough hard evidence to back up.

     Now on to the nunnally part and seeing the memories. Now remember coming in contact with code weilder can lead to disturbing images beeing shown, but that is not the only thing it does they can also show people their memories, CC pulled this one twice on lelouch the first being accidental and not being very well played seeing as cc did not allow him to see them of her own will the 2nd time however she did. Now on to the point about nunnally’s lie detecting i doubt thats anything supernatural at all. just think about what she is. she is blind. most people look for a “poker face” when someone is lying but if you couldnt see, holding someone hand and feeling the pulse would work to(think now when someone lies the hearts beat elevates which is what a polygraph test shows but you can still feel the increase in pulse through just a hand/wrist)

     Now on to your final statement about the cart driver this is one of my weakest evidence that i presented yesterday but none the less there are some things to consider. Now you mention there was no presence of face marks or geass but remember 2 things what makes the cart driver out of place is the fact that they DIDNT show his face thats what makes it entirely odd for them to not just throw a random face on someone unless they didnt want you to know who it is. And also remember if he did receive the code wether it be from CC or charles(unlikely). once it activates it takes the place of the geass. so geass wouldnt be present anyway. What you have to look at is the bigger picture to this point this series has been a bunch of twist and turns some that could of been predicted if you pay attetion to the littler details and remember the info from earlier on in the series. Just think of it this way sunrise has pulled a fast one on us every episode up till the last one which was straight forward pretty much. What makes you think that they wouldnt do the same thing with the last episode? And go back up a few post find my 2 original ones and READ them analyze the info. But thinking he is not alive and having evidence to support he may be alive are 2 totally diferent things. Evidence always beats feelings in a discussion.

124. Farbs September 30th, 2008 1:30 pm

     The most obvious truth is that Lelouch is dead. In a normal circumstance, having a sword thrust through your chest and bleeding uncontrollably will cause one to die. You’ll have to be really good to refute that. Now, you’re all probably thinking “well, this isn’t a normal circumstance,” what with the matter of codes and whatnot. But the problem is there is no hard evidence that Lelouch got a code. All these theories stem from the fact that immortality is possible within the story. That said, with no provable guarantee that Lelouch received a code or that he is the driver at the end of the episode, there’s really no other true outcome we can come to besides Lelouch having really died.

     I don’t want him to have died, I really liked his character a lot. But it’s the only fact-based provable ending. To go off on a tangent though, wasn’t anyone else surprised he didn’t snap his neck the way he tumbled down the ramp to Nunally?

125. akusatou September 30th, 2008 1:55 pm

     I’d like to add one statement in regards to death as portrayed by Lelouch in the final scene.

     Although you see Lelouch being stabbed by the sword and his fall towards Nunnally and the heavy bleeding followed thereafter, the act itself of closing your eyes does not definitively prove death happened at that moment. With the heavy blood loss and the pale eyes, one can assume that his time of death was at that very instant, however it can also be assumed that Lelouch merely fell unconscious and could have died at a later point.

     If the logic that revival is instantaneous at the time of death, then it’s entirely possible that if his death occurred later on, he could have been revived in a scene that was not shown in that episode.

     Like i had mentioned earlier in one of my responses… It is funny to note that we question trivial things like this, yet don’t question things like geass or sakuradite.

     Personally, I would like to believe Lelouch is alive, however if canon were to prove that he is dead, I am perfectly willing to accept that course of action. I just feel that with the way this story has played out, it seems to make more sense for his survival.

     It does make sense for Lelouch to die however, which is something I won’t refute. The series is based around lies, deception and plot twists, it makes sense that at the end of it all, he finally defeats the cycle of these untruths and finally gives the world a sparkle of truth, that his death will destroy the current world and set people free.

     But his death also leads me to question one thing, how valuable is death in this series? Does his survival have that much of an impact to the world even though the symbolism of his assassination in front of the world was accomplished to set off this new beginning? He accomplished his goal of destroying the world and recreating it, why can’t he live peacefully with C.C. in the outskirts of the world? Is the finality of his death absolutely necessary to finish the series off with?

     These are questions I’m sure will have multiple answers which will all have a legitimate rationale, I just like to think about these things when it comes to our perspective on these issues.

     Also to everyone commenting to this topic, lighten up a little, we’re arguing logic over a fictional series. I’m not sure anybody has told you but umm…. Lelouch isn’t real x=

126. AVI ace September 30th, 2008 2:37 pm

     how is it that the people on this website say mad shit about code geass but say shity anime like natsume-yuujin-chou are good. what the fuck is wrong with you guys. see this is the reason i stop coming to this website

127. Halcyon September 30th, 2008 3:19 pm

     @Zentari

     Really ? Because I could swear that time did pass after they were dead and even then we can still only make a hypothesis.Silly me.

     Again. You’re missing the point. Even if time had passed after his death scene, that does NOT negate the fact that he would’ve revived immediately after death had he obtained a code, in front of a crowd of people.

     What do YOU think would’ve happened afterwards? Do you think people would’ve gone about their normal lives after seeing an UNDEAD IMMORTAL Emperor rise from the grave?

     Clearly, they were able to move on because they believed that the worst was behind them now that the faux-dictator, Lelouch, was dead.

     Kallen as much stated that all the worlds hatred died with Lelouch. How anyone could’ve missed this clue is beyond me.

     Since we don’t know HOW the code is passed exactly , your theory is NOT irrefutable.

     We do know how the code is passed. They showed it to us at least twice in the series. When C.C. received her code it was forced on her. When Charles received his code, he took it from V.V.

     Clearly, based on this information the passing of the code involves two things:

     1. A double Geass signifying achieving a sufficient level of power or ability to obtain a code.

     2. A desire of the recipient or giver to pass or take the code.

     The first condition was satisfied. The second was not. So there goes your theory.

     Yet you seem hellbend on having developed an “irrefutable” theory, kinda contradicting,no? On top of that, you ARE making an arguement here , so you DO have to explain it.

     My position is very simple. Lelouch is dead, because, they showed him dying.

     Everyone else’s argument is “Lelouch is alive because C.C. tilted her head and said ‘Ne, Lelouch?”. Which doesn’t really prove anything. She could’ve been talking to herself for all we know. But people took that as a “sign” that he could be the cart driver eventhough there is ZERO evidence to prove that.

     So her abilities as a living lie detector evolved into mind reading ? This theory sure has a lot of holes…

     Or lie detector ‘ability’ could’ve always been “mind-reading” from the beginning. Hence how she was able to tell how people were lying to her from touching their hands. For all we know, the reason ‘images’ weren’t shown when she was ‘reading minds’ was because she was ‘blind’ at the time. And the reason ‘images’ showed when she ‘read Lelouch’s mind’ was because she could now see. Imagine that.

     Like I’ve already stated, twice, Sunrise/Taniguchi has not explained how Nunnally gained this ability or why she has it. Just that she does.

     All of those people had fully evolved the code,Lelouch’s hadn’t activated yet.Even IF (big if here ) Nunally reading Lelouch’s mind is unrelated , how do you explain it ?

     If you paid attention, like I did, Nunnally touches Lelouch’s hand at 19:02 and sees through Lelouch’s memories/plan. Lelouch then responds to Nunnally telling him that she loves him at 19:17. Lelouch doesn’t die until 19:35 through the episode.

     So how do YOU explain Nunnally seeing Lelouch’s memories if his “code” hadn’t activated yet because he was still alive? Answer: Because her seeing his memories had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH A “CODE”. Lelouch had no Code.

     Boom. Another theory shotdown.
     You don’t see me calling you names so please refrain from doing so.Keeping it civil is the way to go.

     #1. I didn’t call ‘anyone’ a name or an insult.

     What I said was, the vain hope in defiance of obvious evidence is simply delusion on the part of fans. What else would you call it?

     It’s like George W Bush still insisting Weapons of Mass Destruction exist in Iraq, eventhough no evidence to support that conclusion has been found.

     Here is the definition which supports my designation:

     de·lu·sion (dĭ-lōō’zhən) Pronunciation Key
     n.
     Psychiatry A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness:

     That aside, how do you know that the driver ISN’T Lelouch ? We never saw him, they made sure of that.For that matter, nearly no part of his body is visible so you can’t rule out him having the code (and vice-versa, confirm he has it).

     That’s a logical fallacy of negative proof. The onus of proof isn’t on me to provide evidence that the driver isn’t Lelouch. It’s on you to provide evidence that the driver IS Lelouch, especially when we already have prior evidence which establishes Lelouch dying in front of a crowd of people pretty conclusively.

     In case you aren’t familiar with the fallacy of Negative Proof I’ve provided a definition below:

     Negative proof, the fallacy of appealing to lack of proof of the negative, is a logical fallacy of the following form:

     “X is true because there is no proof that X is false.”

     It is asserted that a proposition is true, only because it has not been proven false. The negative proof fallacy often occurs in the debate of the existence of supernatural phenomena, in the following form:

     “A supernatural force must exist, because there is no proof that it does not exist”.

     Marianne. Yeah, I know there were big differences etc. but I just wanted to point out that you shouldn’t take everything at face value.
     The golden word in there is conclusively: you can neither prove he lives nor that he died.

     I can prove that he died, because the pretty clearly show him getting impaled with a sword and bleeding to death.

     What you’re arguing is not that he lives but whether or not he resurrected from dying. There is no evidence to show that he came back from the dead or that he possessed a code.

     Thus, since there is no evidence to support that hypothesis the only alternative that remains is the Lelouch died and stayed dead.

     Read the arguements that have been said so far once more then.Can you refute EACH and every one of them with a satisfying answer? So far, you haven’t.

     All of the arguments stem from C.C.’s statement at the end. If C.C. hadn’t clearly said “Ne, Lelouch?” at the end everyone would’ve pretty clearly guessed that he had stayed dead. A head-tilt is not proof of resurrection. At all.

     Every OTHER theory about Lelouch having a code or any other bullshit that’s been posted is purely speculation without proof or evidence. Since I’ve already negated the foundation of the argument for Lelouch surviving (hurr hurr He had a code, he didn’t know about) there’s no reason for me to refute each and every unsubstantiated statement as to how Lelouch survived. Simply put, to think that Lelouch is alive is desperately grasping at straws.

128. Maipeisu September 30th, 2008 3:19 pm

     @AVI ace: We don’t blog anime we don’t like at THAT. If it’s being blogged, rest assured that someone here thinks it’s good. Look at it this way, if Geass wasn’t a masterpiece, it wouldn’t receive half the attention that it does, both good and bad. An anime like Natsume Yuujin-chou, entertaining as it may be at times, wouldn’t hold up under half the scrutiny that has been thrust upon Geass.

     More importantly, why seek out a website where everyone’s opinions are the same as your own? The whole reason we encourage comments is to share ideas and opinions, so long as they are somewhat thoughtful.

129. akusatou September 30th, 2008 3:49 pm

     One thing is for certain in my book, Lelouch’s death is debatable. There is strong evidence that will demonstrate that he is dead and that he isn’t coming back from it. However, if you consider the mythos that reside within the geass world, it can be considered highly plausible that Lelouch is indeed alive.

     Using real world logic and rationale, we can assume that the nations of the world will indeed verify the facts and ensure that Lelouch’s death is legitimate and that he truly died. We can also assume that given the circumstances, a sword through the heart and lungs would indeed provide a lethal blow which would inevitably lead to his instant death. Using common sense, I would assume that Lelouch truly died and that the series will end on that note.

     However, if you consider the various supernatural occurrences throughout the series, such as presenting the logic behind transmittal of the code and of the geass powers, as well as the transferral of souls and characters escaping certain death. All of these situations would not conform with rationale thought processes. With all of these unexplained events, this leads us to believe that there is potential and possibility of Lelouch’s survival during this event.

     Both arguments have strong logic and rationale built into the explanations, however we cannot be certain of the fate of Lelouch because both arguments will inevitable prove to be correct if your rationale follows a certain flow. The only way this question can be answered is if the producers of this show decide to give us an ova or third series to solve these questions.

     And to end my comment, like Halycon had put it, “to think that Lelouch is alive is desperately grasping at straws”. Sometimes you end up getting the straw, and that’s when someone comes out of the blue and says “I told you so”.

     Personally I’d rather take the neutral approach and accept the possibility of both endings.

130. Halcyon September 30th, 2008 4:16 pm

     @akusatou

     The whole argument behind Lelouch still being alive is based upon Lelouch receiving the Code from Charles.

     The whole premise behind Lelouch receiving the Code from Charles is based upon Nunnally seeing into Lelouch’s memories.

     The logic follows: “People usually wind up seeing into memories when they come into contact with someone that has a Code. Nunnally saw Lelouch’s memories. Thus, Lelouch has a code”.

     When you actually watch the episode, Nunnally sees Lelouch’s memories while he’s still alive. Since people need to ‘die’ before a code activates, it follows that Nunnally seeing into his memories had nothing to do with Lelouch having a ‘code’.

     When the foundation for the argument is flawed, the entire argument is flawed.

     The argument for Lelouch being dead is more conclusive and has more evidence (actual evidence not speculation) than the argument for Lelouch being alive.

131. akusatou September 30th, 2008 5:15 pm

     Well as for Charles giving him the code, I didn’t really believe that was the case. I was under the impression that C.C. could have given him the code. To transfer the code, I don’t recall there being any conditions in regards to having to die to activate the code nor the giver of the code having to die to make the transfer.

     When V.V. transferred the code to Charles, it was done well before the battle that occurred in episode 13 and 14. I don’t see any instance where when the code was transferred, Charles or V.V. was required to die.

     When C.C. originally received the code from the nun in episode 14, it shows the nun having passed away after giving C.C. the code. This was because it was her earnest wish to finally be able to die. C.C.’s wish is to be loved and she found this with Lelouch, that way if she were to transfer the code to Lelouch, it would be out of love and that he could reciprocate that love with her. The reason why you see C.C. in the chapel in that episode is because that was the very chapel she received the code from the nun. She went there to cry for the nun because she made a realization that the transfer of the code was not to simply die like the nun had insisted. Lelouch managed to give her a reason to transfer the code in terms of love and not out of death.

     I guess if you only watch the last episode, you could draw these conclusions, however if you look at all of the events leading up the finale, I suppose you could draw out better conclusions ^_~

     These are all my opinions by the way, so feel free to critique them all you like

132. Halcyon September 30th, 2008 6:23 pm

     Well as for Charles giving him the code, I didn’t really believe that was the case. I was under the impression that C.C. could have given him the code. To transfer the code, I don’t recall there being any conditions in regards to having to die to activate the code nor the giver of the code having to die to make the transfer.

     Every time someone has received a Code, the previous Code Holder had to die in order to transfer the Code. If you look back at the series, C.C. received her code from her “master” the same way. Charles actually took V.V.’s code as V.V. was on the verge of death.

     A code receiver has to die in order to activate the code because you can’t have both a Code and a Geass at the same time.

     When V.V. transferred the code to Charles, it was done well before the battle that occurred in episode 13 and 14. I don’t see any instance where when the code was transferred, Charles or V.V. was required to die.

     V.V. was already bleeding to death when his code got snatched by Charles. The code didn’t actually appear on Charles’ hand until after Lelouch shot him.

     Thusly we can conclude that the previous Code holder has to die to transfer the code to a contracted Geass User that has Double Geass and that the person receiving the Code has to die in order to activate it (i.e. die so you can lose your 2x Geass and awaken your code).

     When C.C. originally received the code from the nun in episode 14, it shows the nun having passed away after giving C.C. the code. This was because it was her earnest wish to finally be able to die. C.C.’s wish is to be loved and she found this with Lelouch, that way if she were to transfer the code to Lelouch, it would be out of love and that he could reciprocate that love with her. The reason why you see C.C. in the chapel in that episode is because that was the very chapel she received the code from the nun. She went there to cry for the nun because she made a realization that the transfer of the code was not to simply die like the nun had insisted. Lelouch managed to give her a reason to transfer the code in terms of love and not out of death.

     The Code grants you immortality. You can’t pass it on UNLESS you die and the only person capable of receiving the Code is a contracted Geass user. In effect, when you lose your code, you lose your immortality and your life.

     When C.C. received her Code for the first time, you see a large scar on her chest/stomach indicating that the Nun who gave her the Code probably tried to kill her so that C.C. would react, in self-defense, and kill the Nun/take her code.

     I guess if you only watch the last episode, you could draw these conclusions, however if you look at all of the events leading up the finale, I suppose you could draw out better conclusions ^_~

     Nah. Your conclusions are a bit flawed because they’re based on assumptions.

     If you looked at the overall series, you would see that every Code holder has died before their code became active, that applies to C.C. and Charles (since we never saw when V.V. got his code). If you look at the overall series, you’d also see that the previous Code Holders die when they pass on their Codes (V.V., The Nun who gave C.C. her Code).

     Based on this specific evidence, you can conclude that both the Code Holder and Contracted Geass User need to die, at least once, to pass on and activate the code.

     This series has never shown anyone passing on their code and still being alive afterwards. You lose your code, you lose your immortality. Lose your immortality and it’s game over.

133. akusatou September 30th, 2008 7:01 pm

     Where did they say that death was a requirement of the transfer? Charles didn’t receive Geass the moment V.V. died, as you had seen in that episode, he was already immortal well before the code appeared on his hand. Evidence of his obtaining the code before V.V.’s death is seen when Lelouch attempts to use Geass on his father. It cuts to a scene where normally you see the patterns realign within each victim, however it is halted which points to the ineffectiveness of geass. More proof of this is with the lack of the red circle around Charles’ eyes. This proves that he was immune to the effects of geass at that moment which is a trait shared by all code carriers. I’m not a genius in logic, however that does prove to be a bit of a flaw in the logic that the previous code carrier has to be dead for the code to have been transferred. You can make the claim that he shot himself to seal the deal, however if that were the case, he can’t have blocked the geass before receiving the immortality. He purposely shot himself to prove the point that he’s become immortal and that Lelouch’s attempts have become fruitless.

     Secondly, the scene with C.C. and the nun does not show that C.C. had been killed in order to complete the transfer. It merely shows blood on her neck and body which could have been the nun’s blood as the nun had killed herself after the transfer had been made. C.C. could have held onto the body of the nun weeping at this realization of what has just occurred.

     I am making a lot of assumptions to back these claims, however a lot of your conclusions and so called “hard evidence” that you make are based on assumptions and interpretations of scenes that are ultimately created by you. Just because your perception of the scene lead to the creation of a certain rationale does not mean that your interpretation is infallible. I am not saying that my rationale is absolutely correct, however it sounds like you are saying that yours is. Circumstantial evidence does not prove truth, it merely provides coincidences between two events.

     And like you had mentioned earlier, the negative proof of “X is true because there is no proof that X is false.” You haven’t seen a transfer of the code that did not result in the death of the carrier, therefore a transfer of that nature cannot occur?

     This series is about hypocrisy, deception and lies, what makes you think that everything you see will be as clear as the way you interpret it to be?

134. Raindog September 30th, 2008 8:17 pm

     @ Calwain

     sorry boss but couldnt find the loop video of orange again and my friend said the guy who put it up deleted it

     sorry

135. Chaotic Reaper September 30th, 2008 9:18 pm

     @Halcyon
     Your theories are good but you misrepresented several things in your statements.
     Listen the user that had the code does not die imediatley after transfer its only if te new user decides to kill them now with their striped immortality that they die or that had a mortal wound when they gave up the code (VV’s case). And from what ive seen from the show it definatly doesnt look like they revive immediatly it looks like they can either choose when to heal or it takes more time with severity of the injury.(remember cc received fatal wounds from shrapnel and was out for several hours before reviving)
     And with your other statements you are just making assumptions like the rest of us you can assume they are right you can only look and hope but your basing yours off the fact that you think someone with the code revives immediatly which hasnt happened every time as i said. there is more then just the images nunally visions that give the impression that lelouch may have received the code. The is the the scene with CC when she is crying for lulu(happiness or sadness) look at her forhead no presence of the code is seen. And towards the fact that he survived how hard would it to have been in a 2 month time period for him to figure out how to live after his death scene.(remember now he still held the promise to CC about making her happy and letting her die with a smile on her face) Notice to peoples facial expresions at the end of the show.
     1. being lulus death scene in which he was smiling as he died but it wasnt a happy smile it was one that said hah i win the world gets peace and i will survie after this but this just presumption on my part
     2. CC in the cart at the am i the only to notice that she is beyond happy seeing as the person she loved is dead

     But the fact of the matter is sunrise likes to play the mind games to get discusion like this started as they sit back and luagh at a job well done. The truth is youdont know if lulu received the code from either possible person wether it be charles(unlikely) or CC(most likely) and neither can I we are basing our hypothesis out of assumption seeing as we dont have every detail needed to close the case. but as my final mark you are correct sunrise loves to deceive but the thing they did with the last episode was to straightforward for them till this point. Just consider this go back through some key episodes pay attetion to detail because sunrise loves to hide the good little easter eggs in out of place scenes.

136. Chaotic Reaper September 30th, 2008 9:28 pm

     wow off topic here but i appologize for the misspellings and words left out i usually edit after i post but it wouldnt allow me

137. No.1 CG Fan September 30th, 2008 10:32 pm

     It’s been interesting to read the many theories of the ending. Many people have come up with different possibilities as to whether Lulu was alive or not. I do lean on towards Lulu being alive though. However I also think that Sunrise made the ending so, to let the viewers interpret it in their own way.

     There are two main possibilities you could derive from watching the last scenes.
     Simple enough its, whether Lelouch was alive or not. The way I see it, there are fans who wanted Lelouch dead and fans who wanted him alive. To satisfy both of the fans, Sunrise created an open end.

     Evidences that you could use to support that Lelouch is alive are can be seen throughout the whole series and especially the last scene. If Sunrise meant to really end the series with Lulu dead, then they would not have added those minor details which you could use to conclude that Lelouch is alive. It was their intention to add these tiny details. One of the biggest clue in the last episode was the scene where C.C. was on the horse-drawn cart, which was driven by a masked man. You practically infer many things from this, people even said that the driver had many similar features with Lelouch. Then there was C.C.’s last line, “Right, Lelouch?” with her head falling back, to either tilt her head towards the driver or to the sky. These details Sunrise added would be rendered unnecessary if they wanted to indicate that Lelouch is dead. I would elaborate more on this, however I see that this page has enough of those. It really was amusing to see　how much facts fans picked up from previous episodes and how they all connected it. Just comes to show how many little hints Sunrise placed along the show.

     Truth be told, I can’t find as many solid facts that would prove that Lelouch is dead. The only way that many people have used to shoot down theories that Lelouch is alive, was to disprove those facts. However as I rewind through the earlier episodes I picked up some things that could prove that Lulu is nothing but cold corpse within the earth. Much like how there are many indications in the series that prove that Lelouch is alive there are also tiny details that would steer many viewers into thinking that Lelouch is dead. One would be that many of his lines have a strong implication of his acceptance of death. One such line he said recently, although I can’t seem to recall when he said it, was “only those willing to be shot can themselves shoot others.” Recognize it? Well I want to point out that he has mentioned this before. He said this right after he acquired his Geass, and back in my first run of the episode I didn’t see that line with much context. Now it seems that it has some significance. When Lulu was said this, he knew the true meaning of the words and at the tone when he said it, it seemed like he knew that there will be repercussions, and that one day he himself will pay a price, for being a “shooter” himself. With this, one can even go as far, to say that Lulu already thought of his death, or that he devised his clever plan Zero Requiem at the time, he acquired his Geass. With his intellect, I wouldn’t be surprised if he did conceive that plan early on. Another thing would be his raison d’etre, or his reason to live, what was it? In the beginning it was to create a world without chaos for Nunnaly, to find out who was responsible for his mother’s death, to crush Britannia, and more importantly to make C.C. smile/happy. I believe that he did achieve all those, the last one is debatable but I strongly agree that he did by the end accomplish that. His raison d’etre is what kept him alive and what kept him going. It was the soul of his determination, and when it was accomplished it is imminent that he would no longer have his reason for living. He then created a plan which accomplished those goals, but also integrated within the plan is the withdrawal of his existence. I’m not saying that alone is the reason for his desire of death, there are numerous other reasons why he would want to be dead, one of those I will explain later. Man I hope that at least 25% of you who read from the start is still reading this. Anyway, all I’m trying to get to is that he not only may have foreseen his death in the beginning and accepting it but as the story progressed he may have thought that death was his only option and that it is was the cornerstone of his plan. One other thing I would like to talk about is when he said farewell to Kallen, it was a sullen goodbye. It sounded like a farewell coming from someone who knows his death is coming. Remember how Charles was able to talk to Clovis? Remember how he said that Clovis is on the beach? It made me think that what if C.C. was talking to Lelouch, but she was speaking upwards, towards the heavens. It’s just speculation but it explains why many of the images seen during the scene where Lelouch delivers his last words. Though he said “I’m going to… destroy the world and recr-”, I couldn’t help but think that what if Lelouch was also trying to say I’m going to where everyone is. C.C. mentioned that Geass does not cause loneliness. Many approached it this way: C.C. said this because she is with Lelouch, but what if its percieved this way: Lelouch is not lonely because he is among his family members up there. What if he wanted to die because he would be among those who have died for his cause? Currently I do not have any more solid evidence to prove that he did want to die, or is dead, but maybe after my second through the show I could present some more.

     Though indicators of Lelouch being alive over weighed the indicators that Lelouch is dead, I still think that Sunrise tried to make it so that it leaves us different possibilities and also to satisfy both factions. It wasn’t really successful because many wanted a solid ending but that just leaves us with OVAs, which I hope that they do make or else I will not be satisfied. Hopefully, if its made, that it would be a peek into the future. Its been a fun ride on board the Geass train but I think its time to step back into reality, but maybe take the G00 line.

     P.S. How about this? Instead of telling everyone your thoughts about Lelouch’s state of being, I want to hear theories about the future in the Code Geass World. Particularly pairings. I’m interested to see what kind of pairings we get based on the last few scenes of the episode. Also do you think this peace will last? Although Kallen has mentioned that war is abolished, and that the energy fueling war is instead going towards world hunger and poverty, I think that the united world will not last. 10-15 yrs into the future, what do you think Kallen’s sizes will be? Lol, just kidding, but seriously 10-15 yrs into the future what will the status of the world be and where are the main characters and what do you think they are doing? I’m interested to know what your thoughts are so I hope you guys reply back.

138. Zentari October 1st, 2008 12:30 am

     @Halcyon :
     ‘What do YOU think would’ve happened afterwards? Do you think people would’ve gone about their normal lives after seeing an UNDEAD IMMORTAL Emperor rise from the grave?’

     Are you implying that Lelouch wouldn’t be smart enough to stay down ? Hell , if Charles didn’t get up, Lelouch would have ignored him altogether.
     ‘2. A desire of the recipient or giver to pass or take the code.’

     It does ? Once more, we do not know the rules.For all you know, all it would need is the desire of one of the two to KILL the other one (BOTH valid substitudes to yours) and hell even if that is correct you do not know what Charles did, because afterall by that time, he had lost.

     ‘My position is very simple. Lelouch is dead, because, they showed him dying.’

     More like you WANT him to be dead and they have showed characters dying only to have them brought back at latter episodes with little to no explaination so that’s not really an arguement there.

     ‘But people took that as a “sign” that he could be the cart driver eventhough there is ZERO evidence to prove that.’

     There is zero evidence to disprove it too.

     ‘Or lie detector ‘ability’ could’ve always been “mind-reading” from the beginning. Hence how she was able to tell how people were lying to her from touching their hands. For all we know, the reason ‘images’ weren’t shown when she was ‘reading minds’ was because she was ‘blind’ at the time. And the reason ‘images’ showed when she ‘read Lelouch’s mind’ was because she could now see. Imagine that.’
     So you don’t want to believe that lelouch is alive because it seems over the top and yet you truly believe that ?

     ‘Like I’ve already stated, twice, Sunrise/Taniguchi has not explained how Nunnally gained this ability or why she has it. Just that she does.’
     Nunally was blind , her touch was sensitive.Way more likely than this mind reading “theory ” ‘.

     ‘What I said was, the vain hope in defiance of obvious evidence is simply delusion on the part of fans. What else would you call it?’

     Arrogance , to name one thing.You don’t know if you are right , you just ASSUME you are which puts you at least in the same position as them.

     ‘It’s like George W Bush still insisting Weapons of Mass Destruction exist in Iraq, eventhough no evidence to support that conclusion has been found.’

     And yet THOSE people were grasping at straws with Nunally.On topic.

     ‘So how do YOU explain Nunnally seeing Lelouch’s memories if his “code” hadn’t activated yet because he was still alive? Answer: Because her seeing his memories had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH A “CODE”. Lelouch had no Code.’

     Because we know the code is one shot,right ? We saw C.C bleeding to death,no one was touching her at that point, same with Charles.

     ‘Boom. Another theory shotdown.’

     Yeap, yours.Even if that wasn’t the case you STILL have to explain it which you haven’t done so far.

     ‘That’s a logical fallacy of negative proof. The onus of proof isn’t on me to provide evidence that the driver isn’t Lelouch. It’s on you to provide evidence that the driver IS Lelouch, especially when we already have prior evidence which establishes Lelouch dying in front of a crowd of people pretty conclusively.’

     The last part is all based on opinion and even then , Sunrise has pulled it off again.As for you pointing out that he isn’t Lelouch , that was not my point.My point was that we never SAW him while you claimed that he didn’t have the code ,something you aren’t able to know (henche you lied).

     ‘I can prove that he died, because the pretty clearly show him getting impaled with a sword and bleeding to death.’

     Knightmare exploding , bullet rain etc.

     ‘What you’re arguing is not that he lives but whether or not he resurrected from dying. There is no evidence to show that he came back from the dead or that he possessed a code.’

     If he is resurrected then he lives.As for the evidence , there is , you just conveniently disregard it.

     ‘All of the arguments stem from C.C.’s statement at the end. If C.C. hadn’t clearly said “Ne, Lelouch?” at the end everyone would’ve pretty clearly guessed that he had stayed dead. A head-tilt is not proof of resurrection. At all.’

     How about the rest of them ?

     ‘Every OTHER theory about Lelouch having a code or any other bullshit that’s been posted is purely speculation without proof or evidence. Since I’ve already negated the foundation of the argument for Lelouch surviving (hurr hurr He had a code, he didn’t know about) there’s no reason for me to refute each and every unsubstantiated statement as to how Lelouch survived. Simply put, to think that Lelouch is alive is desperately grasping at straws.’

     1.You didn’t.
     2.You still have to explain ALL of them.
     3.You should try to see the arguement itself instead of playing psychiatrist.
     4.You don’t seem any less biased.

     ‘de·lu·sion (dĭ-lōō’zhən) Pronunciation Key
     n.
     Psychiatry A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness:’

     Then ,from my perspective , you are the most delusional of them all.Again, I like civil discussions so please don’t drop stuff like that.

139. Zentari October 1st, 2008 12:36 am

     I really hate this editing system you have here. That wall of text is full of mistakes ,in case anyone reads it.

140. Knight of Infinity October 1st, 2008 3:04 am

     I do hope they make either a set of OVA’s or a third season… my biggest hopes though if for a Movie. All in all I loved this ending, it had everything I love in anime endings, action, suspense, drama, and of course death… the only thing I hate is they never clarified weather of not Lelouch was actually “Dead” Or not… though knowing him he took CC’s Code so he could live a peaceful life with her.

141. Halcyon October 1st, 2008 3:49 am

     @akusatou

     Where did they say that death was a requirement of the transfer?

     As I’ve said, the code hasn’t activated on any holder until after they died. This was specifically shown when Lelouch shot Charles in the World of C. Charles’ code didn’t appear on his hand until after Lelouch shot him in the chest.

     Charles didn’t receive Geass the moment V.V. died, as you had seen in that episode, he was already immortal well before the code appeared on his hand.

     The Code is the only thing that grants you immortality. Charles’ was not immortal prior to receiving the Code.

     Charles never “blocked” Lelouch’s Geass. Lelouch was afraid to use his Geass directly on Charles because making eye contact with Charles would also give Charles the opportunity to use his Geass on Charles.

     Secondly, the scene with C.C. and the nun does not show that C.C. had been killed in order to complete the transfer. It merely shows blood on her neck and body which could have been the nun’s blood as the nun had killed herself after the transfer had been made. C.C. could have held onto the body of the nun weeping at this realization of what has just occurred.

     The scene showed a large wound on her chest extending down to her abdomen indicating she had been attacked.

     Any wound/attack made on someone who has a code is immediately healed, therefore, she had to have acquired that scar before she acquired the code.

     I am making a lot of assumptions to back these claims, however a lot of your conclusions and so called “hard evidence” that you make are based on assumptions and interpretations of scenes that are ultimately created by you. Just because your perception of the scene lead to the creation of a certain rationale does not mean that your interpretation is infallible. I am not saying that my rationale is absolutely correct, however it sounds like you are saying that yours is. Circumstantial evidence does not prove truth, it merely provides coincidences between two events.

     You don’t have any evidence, just speculation and drawing conclusions based on assumptions. In any debate, having some evidence is better than having no evidence.

     What we know is Lelouch died. They showed him getting impaled and bleeding to death. They did not show Lelouch again after that. Hence, he’s dead. Anything else is just guessing on your part based on assumptions.

142. Halcyon October 1st, 2008 3:51 am

     @Chaotic Reaper

     The method of Code Transfer is irrelevant. The point is Lelouch did not receive a Code. If he did receive a Code, he would have revived after being killed.

     What was shown was, he was killed. What wasn’t shown was him reviving.

     The point is, guessing that Lelouch survived based on a head-nod by C.C. is insufficient.

143. Halcyon October 1st, 2008 4:05 am

     @Zentari

     Are you implying that Lelouch wouldn’t be smart enough to stay down ? Hell , if Charles didn’t get up, Lelouch would have <ignored him altogether.

     Are you implying that Lelouch had control over reviving? That’s like trying to hold your breath. You can do it for a few minutes, but not indefinitely. Reviving after death, once you possess a Code, is not controllable. It’s an automatic, reflexive response by the body (see: C.C., V.V., for examples).

     More like you WANT him to be dead and they have showed characters dying only to have them brought back at latter episodes with little to no explaination so that’s not really an arguement there.

     They haven’t really shown any characters to “die”, i.e. actual death scenes, with the exception of Clovis, Diethard, Rolo, and Shirley. In the cases of characters bleeding to death (Diethard, Shirley) they were not revived. It’s one thing to have an ambiguous death scene, it’s quite another when they show the character being impaled to the hild with a sword and then bleeding to death in front of a crowd of people.

     Additionally, there are no ‘later episodes’ to bring Lelouch back to. Taniguchi said that it was the END of Geass which only further supports Lelouch being dead as a way to bring the series to a conclusive end.

     There is zero evidence to disprove it too.

     Sure there is, did you miss the death scene a few minutes earlier?

     So you don’t want to believe that lelouch is alive because it seems over the top and yet you truly believe that ?

     I don’t believe he’s alive because there’s no evidence to support that. They showed him dying, they did not show him coming back.

     It really is just that simple.

     Nunally was blind , her touch was sensitive.Way more likely than this mind reading “theory ” ‘.

     So a sensitive touch gives you the ability to detect lies now? LOL Can all blind people detect lies by touching?

     Arrogance , to name one thing.You don’t know if you are right , you just ASSUME you are which puts you at least in the same position as them.

     I am right because they SHOWED HIM DYING. LOL. Anything else is just pure fantasy.

     Because we know the code is one shot,right ? We saw C.C bleeding to death,no one was touching her at that point, same with Charles.

     Again, people only “see” memories when they come into contact with a code holder. Nunnally touched Lelouch and saw his memories WHILE HIS GEASS WAS STILL ACTIVE. You can’t have a Geass AND a Code at the same time. Therefore, when Nunnally touched Lelouch HE DID NOT HAVE A CODE. It’s really, really, simple.

     Therefore, you cant use Nunnally “seeing” Lelouch’s memories as proof of Lelouch having a code.

     You have no proof he had a code. Just a bunch of baseless assumptions with ZERO substance.

     The last part is all based on opinion and even then , Sunrise has pulled it off again.As for you pointing out that he isn’t Lelouch , that was not my point.My point was that we never SAW him while you claimed that he didn’t have the code ,something you aren’t able to know (henche you lied).

     It’s opinion that Lelouch was impaled during the show? LOL
     Again, you’re guilty of the fallacy of negative proof.

     Because X hasn’t been proven false, therefore X is true.

     Knightmare exploding , bullet rain etc.

     and? What does that have to do with getting impaled in the chest? Was there blood in any of those scenes? No? Then it’s irrelevant.

     If he is resurrected then he lives.As for the evidence , there is , you just conveniently disregard it.

     There’s evidence of Lelouch being alive? Point out what scene shows Lelouch alive and having a code.

     How about the rest of them ?

     You mean those straws people are grasping at that don’t really show anything?

     1.You didn’t.
     2.You still have to explain ALL of them.
     3.You should try to see the arguement itself instead of playing psychiatrist.
     4.You don’t seem any less biased.

     Again, they showed Lelouch dying. They didn’t show him coming back to life. Therefore, he is dead. I don’t know why this is so difficult for you people.

     Even the people who were ‘presumed’ dead at one point or another they showed coming back to life. Did they do the same for Lelouch? No. That means he’s dead.

     Then ,from my perspective , you are the most delusional of them all.Again, I like civil discussions so please don’t drop stuff like that.

     My belief is based on clear evidence presented on the show (i.e. showing Lelouch dying).
     Your belief is based on spurious assumptions which have no conclusive evidence (i.e. Never seeing Lelouch again after he died).

     Clear difference there

     Again, I’ll post the definition since you seem to have missed it the first time.

     A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness:

     I highlighted the important parts for you.
     You’re welcome. ^_^

144. Chaotic Reaper October 1st, 2008 4:14 am

     @Halcyon
     You arent listening you are basing that you are right in discusion where we dont have all the details not only is this ignorant but its arogant as well. As i said above there has been several points in the series where the resurection varied in time, one point cc took several hours now whether this is on choice of the host or severity of the wound i do not know but you cant presume that he didnt get the code just because you think he didnt your basing it off a few of the resurection and not all. Look at all the facts before you come and place your theory and like i said this is a discusion were we do not have all the details and none of us can say we are right, we can only hope we are. And you contiune to say we only base it on a head not but several over points of evidence lead you to believe he was alive after that seen, but of course if you read my original post you would know that.

145. akusatou October 1st, 2008 5:02 am

     Well it’s like you had stated earlier,
     “As I’ve said, the code hasn’t activated on any holder until after they died. This was specifically shown when Lelouch shot Charles in the World of C. Charles’ code didn’t appear on his hand until after Lelouch shot him in the chest.”

     This implies that it was you that makes these claims, not the series itself.

     “The Code is the only thing that grants you immortality. Charles’ was not immortal prior to receiving the Code.
     Charles never “blocked” Lelouch’s Geass. Lelouch was afraid to use his Geass directly on Charles because making eye contact with Charles would also give Charles the opportunity to use his Geass on Charles.”
     You claim that Charles did not “block” the geass, and that Lelouch was afraid to come out because Charles can use his geass on him. Well, contrary to your belief, I would assume Charles knew this as well, it’s not like he is a total moron when it comes to strategy. In fact pretending that he was under the effects of geass allowed Lelouch to have a false sense of security to come out and investigate the body. This leads to the eventual realization that Charles was indeed immortal. How else can you prove immortality? Take his word on it?

     “The scene showed a large wound on her chest extending down to her abdomen indicating she had been attacked.
     Any wound/attack made on someone who has a code is immediately healed, therefore, she had to have acquired that scar before she acquired the code.”
     More assumptions on your part as well, the image shows C.C. with blood on her neck and body but as for any wounds, you can’t tell because she has her hands covering her body which would hide any theoretical wounds she might have.

     “You don’t have any evidence, just speculation and drawing conclusions based on assumptions. In any debate, having some evidence is better than having no evidence.
     What we know is Lelouch died. They showed him getting impaled and bleeding to death. They did not show Lelouch again after that. Hence, he’s dead. Anything else is just guessing on your part based on assumptions.” Well given some of the evidence that I’ve pointed out in episode 14 and 15 where a bulk of the transfer occurred, I would say that I did provide some evidence, just because you refuse to accept it as evidence does not necessarily make it an assumption on my half. It just makes it an assumption in your eyes.

     Also it’s nice to note that if you rewatch episode 14, C.C. explains that “At the end of Geass, the user takes over the position of the person who granted them their Geass, In other words, they gain the power to kill the giver.”
     I don’t claim to be an english scholar, but for the most part, I would think that it means that the giver of the code would have to be C.C. and secondly, they gain the “power”, being as the potential and not the requirement. You could call those assumptions if you will, but that’s your job to critique and of course ignore them as purely speculation. Well it’s true that it is speculation, but you do have to recall that sometimes, speculation can be spot on. The only thing I aim for is that you acknowledge the legitimate possibility and probability of Lelouch’s survival. I don’t necessarily believe that he is alive or dead, I just acknowledge the fact that I don’t know.

146. Cybergig1 October 1st, 2008 6:35 am

     Just had to say I dont care if he’s dead/alive but due to the argument above about it not showing him coming back to life.
     I mean c’mon how many series have we seen someone die that they didn’t specifically show them alive again but had 15 hints to the contrary. cause you know anime series NEVER do that ^_- c’mon people they left it that way on purpose to get people talking which is obviously working like a charm

147. Zentari October 1st, 2008 6:59 am

     @Halcyon :

     ‘Are you implying that Lelouch had control over reviving? That’s like trying to hold your breath. You can do it for a few minutes, but not indefinitely. Reviving after death, once you possess a Code, is not controllable. It’s an automatic, reflexive response by the body (see: C.C., V.V., for examples).’

     Staying down and playing dead is like trying to hold your breath ? Fascinating…

     ‘They haven’t really shown any characters to “die”, i.e. actual death scenes, with the exception of Clovis, Diethard, Rolo, and Shirley. In the cases of characters bleeding to death (Diethard, Shirley) they were not revived. It’s one thing to have an ambiguous death scene, it’s quite another when they show the character being impaled to the hild with a sword and then bleeding to death in front of a crowd of people.’

     None of these people had any special power which is something that you once again conveniently ignore.

     ‘Additionally, there are no ‘later episodes’ to bring Lelouch back to. Taniguchi said that it was the END of Geass which only further supports Lelouch being dead as a way to bring the series to a conclusive end.’

     Your opinion does not equal a fact plus there are god knows how many series that haven’t ended conclusively.Add to this that even if Lelouch lives the storyline is over and your whole point is moot.

     ‘Sure there is, did you miss the death scene a few minutes earlier? ‘

     Sure there isn’t , did you miss the final scene ? I like how you claim that the fans are wishing for it based on one final scene and yet you yourself are convinced by one scene too.

     ‘I don’t believe he’s alive because there’s no evidence to support that. ‘

     That you take into account , you just conveniently ignore it…

     ‘It really is just that simple.’

     No.

     ‘So a sensitive touch gives you the ability to detect lies now? LOL Can all blind people detect lies by touching?’

     So her being a natural mind reader is anything LESS than imposible to you ?

     ‘I am right because they SHOWED HIM DYING. LOL.’

     No comment on this , I love being proved right.

     ‘Again, people only “see” memories when they come into contact with a code holder. Nunnally touched Lelouch and saw his memories WHILE HIS GEASS WAS STILL ACTIVE. You can’t have a Geass AND a Code at the same time. Therefore, when Nunnally touched Lelouch HE DID NOT HAVE A CODE. It’s really, really, simple.’

     C.C STILL had her code.Charle’s stole the code from V.V .Given that we don’t know the ground rules , you can’t disprove it.It’s really, really, simple.

     ‘Therefore, you cant use Nunnally “seeing” Lelouch’s memories as proof of Lelouch having a code.’

     If that is not the case then you are free to explain how it happened other than “it just did ” . Until then I CAN use it.

     ‘Again, you’re guilty of the fallacy of negative proof.’

     I am ? From what I understand that works both ways and even if we disregard that there’s a LONG way from negative proof to outright ignoring FACTS merely because you can’t explain them.

     ‘and? What does that have to do with getting impaled in the chest? Was there blood in any of those scenes? No? Then it’s irrelevant.’

     Let’s see , Guillford got BLOWN to pieces and survived.Cornelia was made like swiss cheese.I don’t know about blood but I certainly proved my point.Plus you seem to be mistaken.This arguement is about Lelouch living in the END it is NOT about him surviving being impaled by a sword (which is what you yourself have already said).

     ‘Again, they showed Lelouch dying. They didn’t show him coming back to life. Therefore, he is dead. I don’t know why this is so difficult for you people.’

     Because you still have to explain a few things.Call it a logical fallacy all you want but the burden of proof still applies to you.If Lelouch living IS false ,you must still explain the last scene ,as well as the Nunally incident (let’s say that they had another reason for keeping the driver hidden).So far you’ve either a) avoided the issue or b) when directly asked about it your answer is “IT JUST IS “.

     ‘My belief is based on clear evidence presented on the show (i.e. showing Lelouch dying).
     Your belief is based on spurious assumptions which have no conclusive evidence (i.e. Never seeing Lelouch again after he died).’

     Yet your belied is blown up by at least two scenes while mine is only by one ,which is not final.If you want to get hardcore ,we never saw Lelouch’s body get buried or his grave for that matter.

     ‘A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, especially as a symptom of mental illness ‘

     There is however evidence that support otherwise which is where you are wrong.

     Because X hasn’t been proven false, therefore X is true.

148. Code Geass R2 - Finally Over « Ina’s Anime Blog October 1st, 2008 2:48 pm

     [...] not going to go over every single detail since everyone else already has. In fact, I didn’t even understand half the details, there was just so much [...]

149. Zero>KIRA October 1st, 2008 3:33 pm

     ill take what kurogane said. ( ﾟдﾟ)

150. evaric October 1st, 2008 4:02 pm

     Hypothesis: Lelouch is alive at the end of the series because he was the owner of an activated Code before his death scene.

     Evidence 1: Nunnally is able to see Lelouch’s memories by touching his hand when he tumbles down to her. The most substantial piece of evidence.
     For: Having one’s memories projected into another person’s mind is an ability unique to Code wielders.
     Against: By holding someone’s hand while they’re talking, Nunnally can tell when people are lying. Her seeing of Lelouch’s memories was either an extension or that, or she did not actually see his memories but just realized he had been lying the entire time.

     My analysis: Lelouch wasn’t talking to her at the time, so apart from assuming that she has developed psychic powers this seems to be a pretty clear indication of Lelouch having the Code. Note that we haven’t seen the geass in his eyes since he used it on Nunnally in the beginning of episode 25.

     Evidence 2: The sequel has R2 tacked onto the end of its name for inexplicable reasons.
     For: The title of the second season can be considered a play on the names, and Lelouch is now R.R. Though it would make more sense for his name to be L.L., in Japanese ‘R’ and ‘L’ are the same sound.
     Against: R2 stands for Round 2 or something along those lines.

     My analysis: Everyone has wondered why C.C.’s and V.V.’s names are pronounced C2 and V2 instead of the obvious pronunciation of both letters, C-C and V-V. If Lelouch is now R.R., then his name is pronounced R2 and title has a deeper meaning and makes sense.

     Evidence 3: The scene with C.C. on the wagon. Her words are somewhat vague… she says “Geass to iu na no ou no chikara… hito kodoku ni suru,” which could translate to “The power of kings known as Geass… isolates the person.” or “The power of kings known as Geass… isolates people.” But since one of the themes of the series has been how alone Lelouch was because of his power, and also the glimpse into C.C.’s past past when she had geass showed her loneliness, it is very likely the singular form. But then she says “Sukoshi dake chigatteita ka,” which translates to “But it wasn’t quite like that?” The verb conjugation refers to a period of time in the past where it wasn’t the same. This is past tense, so if she was talking about herself and Lelouch then he’s dead and she’s reminiscing. If she’s talking about his ability to connect with everyone, then she’s just remarking on his surprising achievement. At the end she looks up slightly and addresses Lelouch, though it is not clear if she is talking to his spirit or the wagon driver. The wagon driver’s hair is never shown, just a shadow from his face or hat to purposely obscure his features. The “hair in the middle of his cheek” is the line of his chin… the color above it is skin-colored, the color below it is white.
     For: The wagon driver is almost completely covered and could be Lelouch, and C.C. is saying that his geass didn’t isolate him as it usually does to people, but allowed him to connect to everyone under the geass of “the wishes of everyone.”
     Against: The wagon driver could be anyone, and C.C. was talking about how for a time, she wasn’t isolated and was happy that geass doesn’t have to isolate you.

     My analyis: What this scene means for you is just whatever your gut instinct tells you. For me, C.C. is talking about Lelouch’s achievement and not about her brief period of happiness. And there’s not enough information from the head-inclining part, even though the reason she inclines her head slightly is indeed to address Lelouch. It’s just like when you’re sitting next to someone and talking half to them but also half to yourself, then you glance over at them for an answer with a “Don’t you think?” or “Right?” However, that works for both the spirit and the driver possibilities.

     Evidence 4: Orange knew of Lelouche’s and Suzaku’s plan and helped them out by ordering his men not to fire on Zero, he even smiled when Zerozaku jumped on his shoulder.
     For: (Courtesy of the entry from anime|otaku)”Now would Orange, a man who devoted himself entirely to Lelouche and threw away everything without a second thought, be OK with a plan where the sole person he wants to protect in life is actually killed? The answer to that is NO, not even if Lelouche ordered him to accept the plan: he would not go along with it and would protect him with his life. There is only one way that Orange would be OK with a plan like that and thats if he knew about Lelouche’s immortality, which I assume he did as he worked with V.V. in the Geass research base. Orange was OK with this plan as he knew Lelouche would come to no harm and would be able to start a new peaceful life with the woman he loves in a world which he himself had made peaceful. Even at the end, we see Orange on his orange plantation, completely content with the way things have panned out, he definitely could not be that happy had Lelouche actually died.”
     Against: Jeremiah was loyal to Lelouch and was just satisfied that he was able to help his lord fulfill his greatest wish.

     My analysis: While I find the anime|otaku entry to border on fanatical, it mostly goes with how I feel. Being happy about helping out in a plan where his lord will not only die but also die known as a monster doesn’t fit into the character he’s shown since he switched sides. While it’s no solid proof, it’s one of those things that would be hard to explain another way to satisfaction.

     Now since the whole hypothesis hinges on Lelouch not only having a Code but also having it activated at the time of his death, I’ll go into those.

     There are 2 possible sources of Lelouch’s Code, Charles and C.C. While it was obvious that C.C. was not dead, Charles was also a previous owner of the Code who was killed. The 2 possible scenarios are these:

     1.> The Code can be transferred and activated before death and does not require the death of the previous owner. When Lelouch confronted Charles and used his geass on him and ordered him to kill himself, Charles already had activated the Code. The glove on his right hand covered up his mark until he removed it. He wasn’t geass’d, he just shot himself to make Lelouch realize how useless his efforts were. And as such, C.C. transferred her Code to Lelouch prior to his death. His Code was active at this point. Since his hair covers his forehand during the entire death scene and we don’t actually get to see if C.C. still has her mark, this is a possibility.

     2.> The Code is activated upon the death of both the person with the power of geass and the Code owner. When Lelouch confronted Charles and used his geass on him and ordered him to kill himself, Charles did not already have the Code but instead still retained his geass power. He fell under the effects of Lelouch’s geass and killed himself. Along with V.V.’s death, that activated the Code and he revived, losing his geass but gaining the Code. As such, Lelouch learned through C.C. that he has received Charles’ Code through his father’s death but that it was not yet activated. Prior to his public death, he killed himself to activate his Code.

     Now going over the arguments against it being true:

     #1 Argument against: To transfer memories you need to the code activated on your person. To do that, you and the previous owner need to die first (as evidenced in episode 15 a total of 3 times). The methods seem to be: 1) Code owner kills the geass user and herself at the same time, forcing the Code on the geass user, and 2) geass user forcefully takes it from the Code owner.

     If the same method was shown in all 3 samples, that would be enough to rule out other ways of transferring the Code. But since 2 different methods were shown in 3 samples, that is not enough to rule out a third possibility, a transfer that neither intended. For further hints of that, re-watch the scene in R2ep15, where C.C. is talking to Lelouch with the gears in the background. She tells him that if he kills her, he will receive the Code. And just before Charles died Lelouch’s geass reached its final stage, which seems to be required to receive the Code.

     And it is unknown whether the death of the previous owner is necessary for activation. Correlation does not necessitate causation, after all. We know that V.V. was fatally injured at the time Charles took his Code. Since Charles had his Code already, was it really necessary for V.V. to die? If he had recovered and lived, when Charles shot himself in the heart would he just lie there on the floor until V.V. finally dies of old age? Or would the Code transfer be cancelled, so Charles just got lucky that V.V. died seconds before he did? Neither of those seem like they’d be right. As for the nun, we know that she couldn’t wait to die. The way she died, lying neatly on the floor with her hands clasped in front of her and a peaceful expression on her face, looks a little too serene to be anything but a suicide. Though how she managed to die so that there’s a big puddle of blood behind her head but no blood anywhere on her clothes will have to remain a mystery forever…

     #2 Argument against: Lelouch couldn’t have been playing dead all that time and gotten away with it.
     When C.C. was killed in the first episode, she didn’t revive at all while Lelouch was there. He actually left her for dead. When Charles shot himself, to Lelouch he seemed obviously dead until he started talking. He had revived without any outward sign of reviving. Whether he revived and was playing possum or if he kept himself dead… somehow… until he was tossed into a landfill or the ocean, who knows. But this is the guy who masterminded 2 rebellions, took over the Britannia Empire, and successfully made people believe he hadn’t regained his memories. I’m sure making arrangements for spiriting his corpse away wouldn’t be beyond him, especially with geass.

     Little tidbits:
     - The pink crane at the end seems to be the one that C.C. started on at the beginning of episode 5, first season. I suppose it could represent closure, or it could actually be a keepsake of Nunnally’s. In Japan, the paper crane represents longevity/healing, happiness, or a wish for peace. As to its significance at the end though, your guess is as good as mine.
     - What the hell does the episode name “Re;” mean? I’m not satisfied by the Re;quiem theory.

151. Vin-nii October 1st, 2008 5:15 pm

     Here’s a few thought…

     1. when Zero appeared and did all that dodging bullet stuff, I thought it was Sayako

     2. Suzaku can dodge bullets becuase of his so-called “Geass Curse” forcing him to live

     3. Got a feeling Lelouch survived by taking C.C.s code

     4. LONG LIVE ORANGE-KUN

152. Halcyon October 1st, 2008 5:36 pm

     @Chaotic Reaper

     You arent listening you are basing that you are right in discusion where we dont have all the details not only is this ignorant but its arogant as well. As i said above there has been several points in the series where the resurection varied in time, one point cc took several hours now whether this is on choice of the host or severity of the wound i do not know but you cant presume that he didnt get the code just because you think he didnt your basing it off a few of the resurection and not all. Look at all the facts before you come and place your theory and like i said this is a discusion were we do not have all the details and none of us can say we are right, we can only hope we are. And you contiune to say we only base it on a head not but several over points of evidence lead you to believe he was alive after that seen, but of course if you read my original post you would know that.

     Here’s my point (as I keep saying). They showed Lelouch dying. They never, EVER showed him coming back to life. If you can point out the scene where they show Lelouch WITH A CODE please do so.

     Otherwise, he’s dead until there’s undeniable proof that he’s alive.

     Evidence > Assumptive Speculation.

     @akusatou

     You claim that Charles did not “block” the geass, and that Lelouch was afraid to come out because Charles can use his geass on him. Well, contrary to your belief, I would assume Charles knew this as well, it’s not like he is a total moron when it comes to strategy. In fact pretending that he was under the effects of geass allowed Lelouch to have a false sense of security to come out and investigate the body. This leads to the eventual realization that Charles was indeed immortal. How else can you prove immortality? Take his word on it?

     Are you even reading? Seriously, the only thing that grants immortality is a Code. Before Lelouch shot Charles, Charles was not shown having a code. Therefore, Charles only became immortal AFTER he took the code from V.V.

     There has been ZERO EVIDENCE to support that immortality exists outside of having a code. And since there was no Code on Charles, until Lelouch shot him, he therefore was not immortal.

     Well given some of the evidence that I’ve pointed out in episode 14 and 15 where a bulk of the transfer occurred, I would say that I did provide some evidence, just because you refuse to accept it as evidence does not necessarily make it an assumption on my half. It just makes it an assumption in your eyes.

     There’s no ‘evidence’ supporting that a Code was transferred from Charles to Lelouch. That is a GUESS. An ASSUMPTION. They never showed Lelouch with a Code sigil on his body, anywhere. When you can prove that the code was transferred, it’s another story. But right now, that’s just you drawing conclusions without any proof.

     I don’t claim to be an english scholar, but for the most part, I would think that it means that the giver of the code would have to be C.C. and secondly, they gain the “power”, being as the potential and not the requirement. You could call those assumptions if you will, but that’s your job to critique and of course ignore them as purely speculation. Well it’s true that it is speculation, but you do have to recall that sometimes, speculation can be spot on. The only thing I aim for is that you acknowledge the legitimate possibility and probability of Lelouch’s survival. I don’t necessarily believe that he is alive or dead, I just acknowledge the fact that I don’t know.

     False. If there were 100% true then Charles wouldn’t have been able to take C.C.’s code. Marianne specifically said that Charles could’ve granted C.C’s wish if she had given Charles her code. The code can be transferred to any double-geass user.

     Like I said, when any of you can point out any time in the episode that they SHOW Lelouch alive, then I’ll recant my position.

     Otherwise, dead until proven alive.

153. Halcyon October 1st, 2008 5:56 pm

     @Zentari

     Staying down and playing dead is like trying to hold your breath ? Fascinating…

     Uhhh. Given the circumstances, both are similar in that they are involuntary acts which are beyond the control of an individual, sure.

     None of these people had any special power which is something that you once again conveniently ignore.

     Uh…Pretty sure Rolo had a Geass…
     Also pretty sure Lelouch’s “special power” was Mind Control. Not Rising from the dead.

     Your opinion does not equal a fact plus there are god knows how many series that haven’t ended conclusively.Add to this that even if Lelouch lives the storyline is over and your whole point is moot.

     IF Lelouch lives it leaves an open-ending which allows Sunrise the opportunity to produce more Code Geass material. The reason why Lelouch’s death is conclusive is specifically because it allows the writer to bring the series to a definitive conclusion without room for additional series.

     Which is directly against WHAT THE DIRECTOR/WRITER said himself. I’ve highlighted the important parts for you.

     See here:

     “I’ve finished the script for Code Geass! Finished!
     It’s not “to be continued”, nor “end of this season”. It’s over, finished, the end. Starting from the planning of this anime, it’s been 5 full years. Although I’ve been having planty of jobs, this has been the longest one for me.
     My computer fell silent when I was writing the last episode. I had to try to recover it while making the final check on the last episode. It’s quite a handfull. But the work in studio isn’t done yet. And my job isn’t completely finished either. Laughter or tears, the ending is only 4 months away. As for the production staff, who will see the ending in a few weeks, I wish for them to join me in the joy of seeing the end of Code Geass soon.”

     You can read it yourself in the original japanese Here:
     http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=up282579ot8.jpg if you don’t believe me =P

     Sure there isn’t , did you miss the final scene ? I like how you claim that the fans are wishing for it based on one final scene and yet you yourself are convinced by one scene too.

     You mean, the final scene that didn’t show Lelouch at all? That one? Because he’s dead. Is that why they didn’t show Lelouch alive and well?

     So her being a natural mind reader is anything LESS than imposible to you ?

     They very clearly showed Nunnally seeing into Lelouch’s memories so….yes.
     They never showed Lelouch again after he died so…. I would think it’s pretty obvious which one is more plausible.

     If that is not the case then you are free to explain how it happened other than “it just did ” . Until then I CAN use it.

     Already explained it. That’s part of Nunnally’s power. Re-read a few replies above.

     I am ? From what I understand that works both ways and even if we disregard that there’s a LONG way from negative proof to outright ignoring FACTS merely because you can’t explain them.

     Yup. It’s negative proof. They’ve already showed Lelouch dying. I’ve even pointed out the exact time in the episode where he died 19 minutes and 35 seconds. Therefore, I can clearly say he died.

     They never showed Lelouch reviving, coming back to life or even a shot of his face after that. If you can prove me wrong, go ahead and try.

     Let’s see , Guillford got BLOWN to pieces and survived.

     LOL what? They never showed Guilford’s body at any time. What they showed was his Knightmare Frame being swallowed by a ball of light. His body was never shown at any point during the episode. His Knightmare Frame was never “blown to pieces” as you allege as the bomb wasn’t an explosive bomb. It was an implosive bomb.

     Cornelia was made like swiss cheese.I don’t know about blood but I certainly proved my point.

     Swiss Cheese? They showed her getting hit by 2 bullets. They didn’t show her closing her eyes or clutching her chest in a pool of her own blood. None of the wounds Cornelia suffered were shown to be fatal, unlike Lelouch who took a sword THROUGH his body to the hilt, fell over and had a trail of blood following his body as he slide down his parade float.

     Plus you seem to be mistaken.This arguement is about Lelouch living in the END it is NOT about him surviving being impaled by a sword (which is what you yourself have already said).

     Uhh… the only way he could live in the END, is if he survived being impaled by the sword. The two are synonymous. HE can’t live at the end if he didn’t survive getting impaled by Suzaku’s sword.

     Then again, they never showed him alive so….it’s probably because he died.

     Prove he’s alive. Show me the scene in the last episode that shows Lelouch’s face alive and smiling.

154. evaric October 1st, 2008 10:50 pm

     @Halcyon: Prove he’s alive. Show me the scene in the last episode that shows Lelouch’s face alive and smiling.

     That’s an irresponsible demand to make, since everyone knows that producing that proof is impossible. He will never be seen alive again, so people must form their own opinions of his fate after his death from what they consider evidence. If you don’t believe the ‘evidence’ has meaning, that’s fine, you’re free to have your own opinion. If you choose to enforce that opinion on others though, while the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, the responsibility of showing the ‘evidence’ has no validity falls to you.

     How you answered the initial counterpoints were fine, but the latest ones have been pretty rude and irritated-sounding. Though honestly it’s somewhat understandable considering the only quality responses you had were from akusatou, the rest didn’t frame their responses in a very effective manner at all due to writing their posts in anger, poor grammar, overemphasizing minor points, or just writing a huge continuous block of text. Still though, impolite is impolite whether it has some justification or not.

     The key point, and probably the only important clue that Lelouch is alive, is a question you were pondering in your first post: “how Nunnally can uncover Lelouch’s entire plot just by touching his hand?” Your answer for that was that “Nunnally has been able to tell whether or not people have lied to her by touching their hands for quite a few episodes now.” As noted in my previous post, she has only been shown to use her lie-detection ability when the person tells her something.

     The other answer you gave was “Or lie detector ‘ability’ could’ve always been “mind-reading” from the beginning. Hence how she was able to tell how people were lying to her from touching their hands. For all we know, the reason ‘images’ weren’t shown when she was ‘reading minds’ was because she was ‘blind’ at the time. And the reason ‘images’ showed when she ‘read Lelouch’s mind’ was because she could now see.” While this isn’t impossible, it is highly improbable since there have been no examples of supernatural powers outside of geass.

     There does not have to be anything supernatural about lie-detection, it’s likely been around since the beginning of communication. Police have trained in methods to detect lies by observing tone of voice, body language, facial cues, and choice of words. I’m sure you’ve been able to tell when someone is lying to you on more than a few occasions too, right? When people tell a lie, their sympathetic nervous system reacts automatically and involuntarily… blood pressure, pulse, and respiration fluctuate, the body can stiffen, and muscles can twitch. The first 3 are measurable by a polygraph (lie-detector). With Nunnally’s heightened sense of touch due to her lack of sight, the best conclusion is that the writers wanted her lie-detection ability to be similar to a polygraph. This is reasonable, no?

     So barring the off-chance of psychic abilities, the conclusion one must draw from her being able to see Lelouch’s memories is that he must not only have a Code, but it must be active. This is because memory transfer seems to be unique to those possessing the Code. This is the key point, since everything beyond this point are just theories on how he could be in possession of a Code (covered in my previous post) which do not need to be debunked if one can debunk this conclusion. You were right when you said it yourself, “When the foundation for the argument is flawed, the entire argument is flawed.”

     Personally, I wanted Lelouch to die. I would have rated the series higher if he had since it made a fitting ending and I’m not a fan of “everybody’s happy in the end” endings. But I can’t deny that the fact that Nunnally saw images when she made contact with him indicated that he had an active Code at the time of his death and managed to survive.

155. Halcyon October 2nd, 2008 5:10 am

     @Evaric

     The flaw in your reasoning lies thusly,

     In order for a Code to be activated the recipient of the Code must first die (we saw this with Charles in a prior episode).

     As I’ve already pointed out several replies ago, Lelouch was still alive and actively conversing with Nunnally when Nunnally peered into his memories.

     Considering that Lelouch also, did not have a Code sigil marked anywhere on his body at the time of Nunnally peered into his memories, we can conclude that Nunnally seeing into his memories is unrelated to the Code.

     Additionally, with Nunnally being as close to Lelouch as she was, don’t you think she would’ve noticed a Code on his body?, having already seen Suzaku and Lelouch in the World of C through his memories and being debriefed by Schneizel previously on the nature and extent of Lelouch’s Geass, Nunnally (remember, she can tell lies from the truth) would’ve been able to tell if Lelouch was truly dead or simply ‘faking’.

     Additionally (remember, Nunnally saw into his memories), Nunnally was able to see Suzaku and Lelouch’s plan vis a vis that exchange. It doesn’t seem to indicate that Lelouch planned on surviving the Zero Requiem. If he did, at the time that he discussed the plan with Suzaku, Nunnally would’ve seen that in his memories.

     She also (through the use of memory reading) would’ve been able to tell if Lelouch had received a code.

     Since Nunnally is still grieving over the fact that Lelouch died in her arms, we can safely conclude that Lelouch is actually dead.

     In summation, there is proof of Lelouch being conclusively dead. There isn’t any proof of him reviving. Therein lies the crux of the argument.

     What most people are doing, is assuming he’s alive based on 2 words of text that aren’t directed at any character on-screen.

     That’s speculation. While speculation is fine, to confuse speculation with “facts” is simply wrong, inaccurate and grossly ignorant.

     My position and replies, have served to separate “facts” from assumptions. Which is why I keep driving home the point that, they very clearly showed Lelouch dying in Nunnally’s arms. That is indisputable.

     They did not show Lelouch on-screen again after that. Nor was there any indication of Lelouch surviving. That, is also indisputable.

     What IS disputable is the meaning behind C.C.’s last line which is open to interpretation. But if you look at it in the context of the episode (hell, if you look at it in the context of the entire series), it seems more likely that she was talking to a friend who has passed on by reflecting on past events overall, rather than talking to someone beside her.

156. akusatou October 2nd, 2008 7:06 am

     “Are you even reading? Seriously, the only thing that grants immortality is a Code. Before Lelouch shot Charles, Charles was not shown having a code. Therefore, Charles only became immortal AFTER he took the code from V.V.
     There has been ZERO EVIDENCE to support that immortality exists outside of having a code. And since there was no Code on Charles, until Lelouch shot him, he therefore was not immortal.”
     Well that is another assumption on your part, the code does not have to be visible to be present. If that were the case you would always see the code on C.C. whenever she is present. It only highlights in situations that are of dramatic importance. Zero Evidence does not prove the impossibility of such a probability. You have only witnessed two exchanges of the code which have lead you to believe that all instances of the transfers must follow the strict rules that both the giver and recipient of the code must die to make this transfer. Have you ever thought that perhaps, these were shown specifically to you to give you that impression so that later on, when your paradigm has been broken, you refuse to accept that the rules you set into place were in fact just circumstantial to the events you had seen.

     If we erase all the rules you have placed upon the transfer of the code and assume that the code can be transferred without the necessity of death that you hold so dear. It is entirely possible that V.V. could have transferred the code to Charles. Have you ever seen a magician perform an act before? Shifting your attention is an effective way to deceive you into believing certain truths before revealing the true nature of the trick. The same can be said for the ending of the series, we see the death of Lelouch in plain sight with the world agreeing that he is truly dead, and the next thing you know, you see a very ambiguous scene where an unidentified person is steering the cart that C.C. is riding on.

     If you would like to understand more of this concept called “shifting the paradigm” look up some information on what is called the black swan. Essentially the point being is originally in Europe, swans were colored white and that was all that was known about the swan and everyone was taught that swans could only exist as white. Then when they were exploring Australia, they had seen something that no other person in this world could believe. There was a black swan. This shook the very foundation that their belief of what a swan should be. I believe that you are looking at the transfer as a white swan and that it cannot exist in any other manner.

     “If there were 100% true then Charles wouldn’t have been able to take C.C.’s code. Marianne specifically said that Charles could’ve granted C.C’s wish if she had given Charles her code. The code can be transferred to any double-geass user.
     Like I said, when any of you can point out any time in the episode that they SHOW Lelouch alive, then I’ll recant my position.
     Otherwise, dead until proven alive.”

     The only transfer we have seen have existed between the matured Geass User and the Code Carrier. We have no knowledge of the transfer or unification of code carriers. Since you have no evidence to support the transfer of the code between carriers, you can’t assume it cannot be done. It is also entirely possible that C.C. simply told a lie regarding the full requirements of the transfer in order to give Lelouch a basic understanding of the transfer. It is not like the situation at hand was the perfect place to give Lelouch the full details of the transfer. She even told Lelouch that her only wish was to die when that was clearly not the case. Sometimes Occam’s razor makes sense and that the simplest explanation is often the case, however when dealing with entertainment, many times, the simplest explanation is not the case, only because it promotes excitement and the exhilaration of being exposed to something unthinkable.

     I know that a lot of these are more assumptions on my part, but you have to also recognize that this is anime. There are no rules or restrictions that are bound by common sense and the logic and rationale that exists in the real world. These are all created by the author of the series to entertain us with thought provoking scenarios with unrealistic expectations. Every person will interpret what they see to be different in regards to the circumstantial events that surround the entire series.

     I completely understand that if taken at face value, all of the events surrounding the finale of the series points out that Lelouch is in fact dead and is not the driver of the cart. It is when our imaginations and hopeful expectations examine the little tidbits of information that is hidden throughout the series, be it purposefully placed or accidental, we still have a basis from which we derive these alternative conclusions.

157. akusatou October 2nd, 2008 7:09 am

     In response to your first and second comment:
     Well that is another assumption on your part, the code does not have to be visible to be present. If that were the case you would always see the code on C.C. whenever she is present. It only highlights in situations that are of dramatic importance. Zero Evidence does not prove the impossibility of such a probability. You have only witnessed two exchanges of the code which have lead you to believe that all instances of the transfers must follow the strict rules that both the giver and recipient of the code must die to make this transfer. Have you ever thought that perhaps, these were shown specifically to you to give you that impression so that later on, when your paradigm has been broken, you refuse to accept that the rules you set into place were in fact just circumstantial to the events you had seen.

     If we erase all the rules you have placed upon the transfer of the code and assume that the code can be transferred without the necessity of death that you hold so dear. It is entirely possible that V.V. could have transferred the code to Charles. Have you ever seen a magician perform an act before? Shifting your attention is an effective way to deceive you into believing certain truths before revealing the true nature of the trick. The same can be said for the ending of the series, we see the death of Lelouch in plain sight with the world agreeing that he is truly dead, and the next thing you know, you see a very ambiguous scene where an unidentified person is steering the cart that C.C. is riding on.

     If you would like to understand more of this concept called “shifting the paradigm” look up some information on what is called the black swan. Essentially the point being is originally in Europe, swans were colored white and that was all that was known about the swan and everyone was taught that swans could only exist as white. Then when they were exploring Australia, they had seen something that no other person in this world could believe. There was a black swan. This shook the very foundation that their belief of what a swan should be. I believe that you are looking at the transfer as a white swan and that it cannot exist in any other manner.

     In response to your third comment:
     The only transfer we have seen have existed between the matured Geass User and the Code Carrier. We have no knowledge of the transfer or unification of code carriers. Since you have no evidence to support the transfer of the code between carriers, you can’t assume it cannot be done. It is also entirely possible that C.C. simply told a lie regarding the full requirements of the transfer in order to give Lelouch a basic understanding of the transfer. It is not like the situation at hand was the perfect place to give Lelouch the full details of the transfer. She even told Lelouch that her only wish was to die when that was clearly not the case. Sometimes Occam’s razor makes sense and that the simplest explanation is often the case, however when dealing with entertainment, many times, the simplest explanation is not the case, only because it promotes excitement and the exhilaration of being exposed to something unthinkable.

     I know that a lot of these are more assumptions on my part, but you have to also recognize that this is anime. There are no rules or restrictions that are bound by common sense and the logic and rationale that exists in the real world. These are all created by the author of the series to entertain us with thought provoking scenarios with unrealistic expectations. Every person will interpret what they see to be different in regards to the circumstantial events that surround the entire series.

     I completely understand that if taken at face value, all of the events surrounding the finale of the series points out that Lelouch is in fact dead and is not the driver of the cart. It is when our imaginations and hopeful expectations examine the little tidbits of information that is hidden throughout the series, be it purposefully placed or accidental, we still have a basis from which we derive these alternative conclusions.

158. akusatou October 2nd, 2008 7:10 am

     In response to your first and second comment:
     Well that is another assumption on your part, the code does not have to be visible to be present. If that were the case you would always see the code on C.C. whenever she is present. It only highlights in situations that are of dramatic importance. Zero Evidence does not prove the impossibility of such a probability. You have only witnessed two exchanges of the code which have lead you to believe that all instances of the transfers must follow the strict rules that both the giver and recipient of the code must die to make this transfer. Have you ever thought that perhaps, these were shown specifically to you to give you that impression so that later on, when your paradigm has been broken, you refuse to accept that the rules you set into place were in fact just circumstantial to the events you had seen.

     If we erase all the rules you have placed upon the transfer of the code and assume that the code can be transferred without the necessity of death that you hold so dear. It is entirely possible that V.V. could have transferred the code to Charles. Have you ever seen a magician perform an act before? Shifting your attention is an effective way to deceive you into believing certain truths before revealing the true nature of the trick. The same can be said for the ending of the series, we see the death of Lelouch in plain sight with the world agreeing that he is truly dead, and the next thing you know, you see a very ambiguous scene where an unidentified person is steering the cart that C.C. is riding on.

     If you would like to understand more of this concept called “shifting the paradigm” look up some information on what is called the black swan. Essentially the point being is originally in Europe, swans were colored white and that was all that was known about the swan and everyone was taught that swans could only exist as white. Then when they were exploring Australia, they had seen something that no other person in this world could believe. There was a black swan. This shook the very foundation that their belief of what a swan should be. I believe that you are looking at the transfer as a white swan and that it cannot exist in any other manner.

159. Jay October 2nd, 2008 9:58 am

     @Halcyon:
     Your arguments are flawed in one crucial area:

     Sunrise wants to make money. If Lelouch is alive, then they can make a season 3, an OVA, or products to sell.

     Sunrise made the ending ambiguous. You can’t argue that the ending is not remotely ambiguous. That said, why would Sunrise try to make the audience question the “obvious” (Lelouch stabbed = Lelouch dead) if they later state “Yeah. He’s dead.” Given the history of the show (I hope to God you’ve watched this show) Sunrise seems to like to mindf*** its viewers again and again and again.

     Also, dismissing arguments because it’s based on “fanboy logic” is foolish. Sunrise can make up any BS they want. That said, the more “fanboys” cry out for Lelouch to be alive, the more Sunrise knows it can sell more Geass products.

160. Zentari October 2nd, 2008 11:37 am

     ‘Uhhh. Given the circumstances, both are similar in that they are involuntary acts which are beyond the control of an individual, sure.’

     So playing dead is effectively imposible *snicker*?

     ‘Uh…Pretty sure Rolo had a Geass…’

     Which is what caused his death.

     ‘Also pretty sure Lelouch’s “special power” was Mind Control. Not Rising from the dead. ‘

     If you are refering to his geass then we are in complete agreement.We do not attribute his ressurection to it though , just in case you are getting confused.

     ‘ .’

     I do not doubt him saying that. I’m gonna skip writing paragraphs and just tl;dr : Lelouch living or not does not affect in any way the definite end of geass.

     ‘You mean, the final scene that didn’t show Lelouch at all? That one? Because he’s dead. Is that why they didn’t show Lelouch alive and well?’

     Given how many times a dead character in this show has come alive from the dead AND the circumstances surrounding Lelouch your definite proff isn’t so definite to say the least .

     ‘Already explained it. That’s part of Nunnally’s power. Re-read a few replies above.’

     You just said IT JUST IS, you did NOT explain it in ANY way what-so-ever , which can be said about the grounds of your entire arguement too: ‘I am right because they SHOWED HIM DYING. LOL.’ ,nevermind the fact of him dying being IRRELAVANT to him living in the end (IRL, ,you WOULD be right since however this is an anime with IMMORTALS in it ,you are not ).

     ‘LOL what? They never showed Guilford’s body at any time. What they showed was his Knightmare Frame being swallowed by a ball of light. His body was never shown at any point during the episode. His Knightmare Frame was never “blown to pieces” as you allege as the bomb wasn’t an explosive bomb. It was an implosive bomb.’

     So he survived a mini black hole with no explaination at all. Thank you for clearing it up.

     ‘Swiss Cheese? They showed her getting hit by 2 bullets. They didn’t show her closing her eyes or clutching her chest in a pool of her own blood. None of the wounds Cornelia suffered were shown to be fatal, unlike Lelouch who took a sword THROUGH his body to the hilt, fell over and had a trail of blood following his body as he slide down his parade float.’

     1: Count again
     2: Being served a bullet breakfast and left to die guarantee’s a slow death.Except if you believe that people CAN’T play dead but can instead stop their blood flow [/sarcasm] .

     ‘ The two are synonymous. ‘

     This is the biggest flaw of your arguement.I have time and time again pointed it out.

     This is the last post in this arguement for me , feel free to say etc do whatever you want with what I wrote.Perceive it as a personal attack if you like but I really ,REALLY can’t understand you.

161. Ryvius October 2nd, 2008 11:40 am

     I thought it was awesome! Especially the song Hitomi sang at the end. It was a nice closing for the series. I’ll miss the music…

     Check my new Anime Music blog:

162. Halcyon October 2nd, 2008 4:30 pm

     @Jay

     Your arguments are flawed in one crucial area:

     Sunrise wants to make money. If Lelouch is alive, then they can make a season 3, an OVA, or products to sell.

     I’ve already posted that Taniguchi (the writer/director) of Geass has already admitted in an interview that he wrote the finale in order to avoid making another Season of Code Geass.

     Sunrise has no control over the writing/scripts. They are the production company. They only animate the scripts based on CLAMP’s character designs.

     Sunrise made the ending ambiguous. You can’t argue that the ending is not remotely ambiguous.

     Again, “Sunrise” doesn’t write the scripts. Please, please, PLEASE stop using that as an excuse to cling to poor logic. I’ve already posted the interview with the director of Geass both translated into English and in it’s original Japanese.

     Also, dismissing arguments because it’s based on “fanboy logic” is foolish. Sunrise can make up any BS they want. That said, the more “fanboys” cry out for Lelouch to be alive, the more Sunrise knows it can sell more Geass products.

     Evidence > Speculation. Dismissing arguments that have no basis in fact is pretty much what any rational person does.

     So playing dead is effectively imposible *snicker*?

     I’ve already posted that Nunnally would’ve been able to detect if Lelouch was ‘faking’ death through the use of her Memory Seeing and/or Lie Detector abilities.

     Thus, faking death from Nunnally would’ve been impossible. Your Theory has been Negated.

     Which is what caused his death.

     Wow. A geass user not coming back from the dead. Imagine that!

     If you are refering to his geass then we are in complete agreement.We do not attribute his ressurection to it though , just in case you are getting confused.

     No, you just attribute a “code” to his ressurection when there is no evidence of Lelouch possessing a Code and no evidence of a code being transferred at any point in time.

     I do not doubt him saying that. I’m gonna skip writing paragraphs and just tl;dr : Lelouch living or not does not affect in any way the definite end of geass.

     What it affects is the ability of the production company to continue the series, which is exactly what the director didn’t want to happen as I’ve already posted.

     Given how many times a dead character in this show has come alive from the dead AND the circumstances surrounding Lelouch your definite proff isn’t so definite to say the least .

     Again, negative proof fallacy. You can’t use other dead characters as an example of Lelouch being brought back. These dead characters were brought back for plot purposes in later episodes. There aren’t going to be any additional episodes of Geass for Lelouch to be brought back to and furthermore, the story is already finished with his death. There’s no reason to bring him back, unlike the other characters (Cornelia, Nunnally, Sayoko).

     I can prove he’s dead because there is a death scene. Where’s your proof that he’s alive? Where’s the scene in the episode that show Lelouch alive?

     You just said IT JUST IS, you did NOT explain it in ANY way what-so-ever , which can be said about the grounds of your entire arguement too: ‘I am right because they SHOWED HIM DYING. LOL.’ ,nevermind the fact of him dying being IRRELAVANT to him living in the end (IRL, ,you WOULD be right since however this is an anime with IMMORTALS in it ,you are not ).

     Considering, the only “immortals” are ones possessing a distinct signifying mark on their bodies and the character in question did not have that mark, my logic would be superior to yours. At least, my position contains evidence you can point to. Yours only contains a string of assumptions and guesswork.

     So he survived a mini black hole with no explaination at all. Thank you for clearing it up.

     Why would you need an exposition for a minor character who only had 2 additional scenes? For what purpose would that serve the plot development? It’s not like he was the main character or anything.

     1: Count again
     2: Being served a bullet breakfast and left to die guarantee’s a slow death.Except if you believe that people CAN’T play dead but can instead stop their blood flow [/sarcasm] .

     Again, they never showed that any of those bullet wounds she suffered were fatal. At any point in time. Hell, they didn’t even show WHERE the bullet wounds were. There was a few bursts of blood, followed by her falling down with her back towards the camera. They never showed her face or any of the wounds. Therefore, the bullet wounds could’ve been anywhere on her body that were non-lethal.

     This is not the same as getting run through your chest with a sword and leaving a large trail of blood before dying in front of thousands of witnesses (including those who were aware of the existence of the Code, like Kallen for one).

     This is the biggest flaw of your arguement.I have time and time again pointed it out.

     My argument has no flaws. I say he’s dead because he very clearly died. Again, there is no scene showing Lelouch afterwards. Claiming that he’s alive because of a bunch of theories is speculation without evidence, not fact. Stating that he died, is very clearly a fact.

     Fact > Speculation.

     I can support my position with proof and evidence, why can’t you do the same?

163. Chaotic Reaper October 2nd, 2008 6:12 pm

     @halcyon
     you are indeed a fool and ignorant not only have you been proved wrong but your response to most of them has no explanation you just say it just is or does. I left any hope of argueing with a fool and apparently zentari has to. We’ve pointed everypeice of evidence towards you that proves you wrong and you’ve ignoredit rather than try to listen to reason. Ive lost interest in argueing along time ago so read this as you will and ignore it just like we know you will.

164. Jay October 2nd, 2008 6:23 pm

     Oh, sry, ttldr.
     Because you’re all arguing your asses off about a TV show. It blows my mind. Go argue about the existence of God or the economy or something.

165. akusatou October 2nd, 2008 6:28 pm

     I don’t like the spam filter…. I wrote a response and they won’t let me post it. :’(

166. Calawain October 2nd, 2008 6:44 pm

     Hey ladies and gents lets keep it civil and back off the personal attacks.

167. evaric October 2nd, 2008 7:12 pm

     @Halcyon
     The flaw in your reasoning lies thusly, In order for a Code to be activated the recipient of the Code must first die (we saw this with Charles in a prior episode). As I’ve already pointed out several replies ago, Lelouch was still alive and actively conversing with Nunnally when Nunnally peered into his memories.

     While I agree with you that the death of the Code recipient seems to be required to activate the Code, the Charles example is not a good one to back that up with. Two of the bits of information we’ve been given about the characteristics of Code owners is that they are immune to geass and they have the Code mark on their body somewhere. But when Lelouch attempted to use his geass on Charles, we did not see either of the telltale sign of a successful geassing, the restructuring of neurons (or something) or the red border around his irises. And since he is wearing a glove over his right hand and does not take it off until after he revives, it cannot be determined if it appeared after his death or before.

     As for Lelouch’s death scene, it was not necessary for that to be his first death. Although the activation of the Code results in the disappearance of the geass power, we had not seen the geass power in his eyes since he used it on Nunnally 2 months prior. So Lelouch having an active Code when talking to Nunnally while dying is well within the realm of possibility.

     Another admittedly low-probability scenario is this: Lelouch died sometime during his tumble down the ramp, and revived immediately (as you’ve asserted is the case for Code owners) before Nunnally touched his hand. He then proceeded to put on a dying act for Nunnally who was too distraught by the severity of his wound and assumption of his death to notice that he was still actually alive and kicking. The jubilant crowd (too frenzied to notice he’s not dead either) then strings up the monster’s “dead” body and parades it down the street, finishing by leaving it run up a flagpole in front of the Britannian palace in Japan. Someone decides a couple of hours later that it’s in bad enough taste to take it down and toss it in a landfill, off a cliff, into the ocean, or maybe even bury it.

     Considering that Lelouch also, did not have a Code sigil marked anywhere on his body at the time of Nunnally peered into his memories, we can conclude that Nunnally seeing into his memories is unrelated to the Code. Additionally, with Nunnally being as close to Lelouch as she was, don’t you think she would’ve noticed a Code on his body?

     That’s a negative proof fallacy and you know it. Most of his body is covered by clothes, his hair, and his silly-looking hat. On top of that, apparently some form of material exists in the Code Geass world that is so skin-like that Sayoko could wear an entire mask of the stuff, even getting kissed, and not have anyone notice it wasn’t her real skin. With that in mind, he could even have his Code mark tattooed right across his face and he could still get away with it. A question for you though… when do we see where the Code mark is on V.V.? I couldn’t find it online and I don’t have the entire series anymore, just a handful from R2.

     having already seen Suzaku and Lelouch in the World of C through his memories and being debriefed by Schneizel previously on the nature and extent of Lelouch’s Geass, Nunnally (remember, she can tell lies from the truth) would’ve been able to tell if Lelouch was truly dead or simply ‘faking’.

     Since I do believe he was dead at that point, there’s nothing to fake. I don’t subscribe to the idea that Code owners immediately revive or heal. I bring up the examples of C.C. not reviving immediately after being killed in the first episode of the first season and V.V. not having his injuries healed in the time before Charles took his Code.

     Additionally (remember, Nunnally saw into his memories), Nunnally was able to see Suzaku and Lelouch’s plan vis a vis that exchange. It doesn’t seem to indicate that Lelouch planned on surviving the Zero Requiem. If he did, at the time that he discussed the plan with Suzaku, Nunnally would’ve seen that in his memories. She also (through the use of memory reading) would’ve been able to tell if Lelouch had received a code.

     During the past memory transfers, the recipient has only seen nothing more than portions and glimpses of the Code owner’s memories. Judging from the memories shown, she saw Suzaku and Lelouch’s discussion of the Zero Requiem in the World of C and again when Lelouch was handing off the Zero outfit to Suzaku. If Lelouch had the Code Suzaku likely didn’t know about it, and it would have been bad if he did since Suzaku’s reason for going along with the plan was getting to kill Lelouch in the end.

     What most people are doing, is assuming he’s alive based on 2 words of text that aren’t directed at any character on-screen. That’s speculation. While speculation is fine, to confuse speculation with “facts” is simply wrong, inaccurate and grossly ignorant. My position and replies, have served to separate “facts” from assumptions. Which is why I keep driving home the point that, they very clearly showed Lelouch dying in Nunnally’s arms. That is indisputable.

     My argument though is based off the solid evidence of the memory transfer. Since there have been no examples of it taking place without a Code, the conclusion must be either that the writers invented some new way to transfer memories in the last couple of minutes of the series or that Lelouch has a Code. Everything else is just speculation on how this might have happened or how certain events fit into this conclusion. The fixation on the wagon scene is where most people screw up the argument, since, as you said, that doesn’t prove anything. But the memory transfer is the key point. With it, one must conclude that Lelouch has a Code. Without it, all other arguments are pointless since the guy got a sword plunged into his chest and most obviously died from it.

     What IS disputable is the meaning behind C.C.’s last line which is open to interpretation. But if you look at it in the context of the episode (hell, if you look at it in the context of the entire series), it seems more likely that she was talking to a friend who has passed on by reflecting on past events overall, rather than talking to someone beside her.

     We have different interpretations of it, but as both of us noted it is an ambiguous line.

168. Halcyon October 3rd, 2008 3:10 pm

     @Chaos Reaper

     you are indeed a fool and ignorant not only have you been proved wrong but your response to most of them has no explanation you just say it just is or does. I left any hope of argueing with a fool and apparently zentari has to. We’ve pointed everypeice of evidence towards you that proves you wrong and you’ve ignoredit rather than try to listen to reason. Ive lost interest in argueing along time ago so read this as you will and ignore it just like we know you will.
     

     So basically, you lose? Okay, gotcha.

     @Jay
     Because you’re all arguing your asses off about a TV show. It blows my mind. Go argue about the existence of God or the economy or something.

     I already do that daily at work, bro.

     @Evaric

     While I agree with you that the death of the Code recipient seems to be required to activate the Code, the Charles example is not a good one to back that up with. Two of the bits of information we’ve been given about the characteristics of Code owners is that they are immune to geass and they have the Code mark on their body somewhere. But when Lelouch attempted to use his geass on Charles, we did not see either of the telltale sign of a successful geassing, the restructuring of neurons (or something) or the red border around his irises. And since he is wearing a glove over his right hand and does not take it off until after he revives, it cannot be determined if it appeared after his death or before.

     Irregardless of that, there is no evidence that proves Lelouch receives a Code from either Charles or C.C. That is speculation and wishful thinking.

     As for Lelouch’s death scene, it was not necessary for that to be his first death. Although the activation of the Code results in the disappearance of the geass power, we had not seen the geass power in his eyes since he used it on Nunnally 2 months prior. So Lelouch having an active Code when talking to Nunnally while dying is well within the realm of possibility.

     Except, you would’ve seen a Code Sigil on his body had he already received and activated a Code prior to his death scene. There was no such Code showed on his personage at the time Nunnally touched him.

     Another admittedly low-probability scenario is this: Lelouch died sometime during his tumble down the ramp, and revived immediately (as you’ve asserted is the case for Code owners) before Nunnally touched his hand. He then proceeded to put on a dying act for Nunnally who was too distraught by the severity of his wound and assumption of his death to notice that he was still actually alive and kicking. The jubilant crowd (too frenzied to notice he’s not dead either) then strings up the monster’s “dead” body and parades it down the street, finishing by leaving it run up a flagpole in front of the Britannian palace in Japan. Someone decides a couple of hours later that it’s in bad enough taste to take it down and toss it in a landfill, off a cliff, into the ocean, or maybe even bury it.

     That’s really really grasping at straws. So he died on the way down due to his fall, then died again from his wounds? You can see how implausible that seems.
     Again, as for ‘faking’ his death, Nunnally would’ve been able to tell when she touched him so that rules that out.

     That’s a negative proof fallacy and you know it. Most of his body is covered by clothes, his hair, and his silly-looking hat.

     False. His hat was not on his head when he got stabbed by Suzaku.

     With that in mind, he could even have his Code mark tattooed right across his face and he could still get away with it.

     Again, Nunnally would’ve been able to tell when she looked into his memories and/or touched him.

     A question for you though… when do we see where the Code mark is on V.V.? I couldn’t find it online and I don’t have the entire series anymore, just a handful from R2.

     They never showed his code sigil on his body. Then again, he was the size of a child. It could’ve been too small for Sunrise to bother animating.

     Since I do believe he was dead at that point, there’s nothing to fake. I don’t subscribe to the idea that Code owners immediately revive or heal. I bring up the examples of C.C. not reviving immediately after being killed in the first episode of the first season and V.V. not having his injuries healed in the time before Charles took his Code.

     Well, we’ve seen C.C. immediately revive after being stabbed/shot in the first episode of R2. And we’ve also seen V.V. revive after getting a knife through the forehead in episode 13 or 14. So if there is a timelag with revival it can’t be more than a few minutes, at most. It most certainly does not take hours, days or months for a Code holder to revive from the dead.

     During the past memory transfers, the recipient has only seen nothing more than portions and glimpses of the Code owner’s memories. Judging from the memories shown, she saw Suzaku and Lelouch’s discussion of the Zero Requiem in the World of C and again when Lelouch was handing off the Zero outfit to Suzaku. If Lelouch had the Code Suzaku likely didn’t know about it, and it would have been bad if he did since Suzaku’s reason for going along with the plan was getting to kill Lelouch in the end.

     It’s irrelevant if Suzaku knows whether or not Lelouch had the code. The memories Nunnally was looking into were Lelouch’s, not Suzaku. By seeing Lelouch’s memories she would’ve been able to tell if he received a Code in the World of C or from C.C.

     My argument though is based off the solid evidence of the memory transfer. Since there have been no examples of it taking place without a Code, the conclusion must be either that the writers invented some new way to transfer memories in the last couple of minutes of the series or that Lelouch has a Code. Everything else is just speculation on how this might have happened or how certain events fit into this conclusion. The fixation on the wagon scene is where most people screw up the argument, since, as you said, that doesn’t prove anything. But the memory transfer is the key point. With it, one must conclude that Lelouch has a Code. Without it, all other arguments are pointless since the guy got a sword plunged into his chest and most obviously died from it.

     Haha. Therein lies the rub. The ‘memory transfer’ you speak of occurred while Lelouch was still alive and had no visible Code on his form.

     Additionally, “WHEN NUNNALLY TOUCHED HIM, IT DID NOT TRIGGER THE TYPICAL ANIMATION SEQUENCE FROM WHENEVER C.C INVADED SOMEONE’S MEMORIES OR SOMEONE INVADED HERS”

     I lovelingly borrowed the above from a kind /a/non on 4chan.
     Credit due: 10/03/08(Fri)17:17 No.15233428

     Additionally, whenever someone touched C.C. the only memories that were shown were from the person who was touching C.C., not C.C. herself. The only notable exception was Lelouch and that could be because he had a Geass Contract with C.C. Thus, follows, if Lelouch had a code, touching Lelouch would’ve only shown Nunnally’s memories not Lelouch’s memories, unless Nunnally had a Geass Contract Lelouch.

     We have different interpretations of it, but as both of us noted it is an ambiguous line.

     I can dig it.

169. akusatou October 3rd, 2008 6:20 pm

     In response to your third comment:
     The only transfer we have seen have existed between the matured Geass User and the Code Carrier. We have no knowledge of the transfer or unification of code carriers. Since you have no evidence to support the transfer of the code between carriers, you can’t assume it cannot be done. It is also entirely possible that C.C. simply told a lie regarding the full requirements of the transfer in order to give Lelouch a basic understanding of the transfer. It is not like the situation at hand was the perfect place to give Lelouch the full details of the transfer. She even told Lelouch that her only wish was to die when that was clearly not the case. Sometimes Occam’s razor makes sense and that the simplest explanation is often the case, however when dealing with entertainment, many times, the simplest explanation is not the case, only because it promotes excitement and the exhilaration of being exposed to something unthinkable.

     I know that a lot of these are more assumptions on my part, but you have to also recognize that this is anime. There are no rules or restrictions that are bound by common sense and the logic and rationale that exists in the real world. These are all created by the author of the series to entertain us with thought provoking scenarios with unrealistic expectations. Every person will interpret what they see to be different in regards to the circumstantial events that surround the entire series.

     I completely understand that if taken at face value, all of the events surrounding the finale of the series points out that Lelouch is in fact dead and is not the driver of the cart. It is when our imaginations and hopeful expectations examine the little tidbits of information that is hidden throughout the series, be it purposefully placed or accidental, we still have a basis from which we derive these alternative conclusions.

170. evaric October 5th, 2008 12:00 am

     @Halcyon:

     Irregardless of that, there is no evidence that proves Lelouch receives a Code from either Charles or C.C. That is speculation and wishful thinking.

     I wouldn’t call it wishful thinking on my part, I want him to be dead. It’s just the building of plausible scenarios.

     Except, you would’ve seen a Code Sigil on his body had he already received and activated a Code prior to his death scene. There was no such Code showed on his personage at the time Nunnally touched him.

     True… had Lelouch been completely naked and bald at the time. He can’t have a Code Sigil because it wasn’t shown on the 10% of his skin that was visible? Come on man, you’ve called people on negative proof fallacies yourself.

     They never showed his code sigil on his body. Then again, he was the size of a child. It could’ve been too small for Sunrise to bother animating.

     Thanks for the info.

     It’s irrelevant if Suzaku knows whether or not Lelouch had the code. The memories Nunnally was looking into were Lelouch’s, not Suzaku. By seeing Lelouch’s memories she would’ve been able to tell if he received a Code in the World of C or from C.C.

     You misunderstand the point I was making. I just added that last sentence about Suzaku likely not knowing about the Code because his reason for going along with the plan was getting to kill Lelouch in the end. If he had known death was not a permanent condition for Lelouch, he might not have been so keen on helping.

     Haha. Therein lies the rub. The ‘memory transfer’ you speak of occurred while Lelouch was still alive and had no visible Code on his form.
     Additionally, “WHEN NUNNALLY TOUCHED HIM, IT DID NOT TRIGGER THE TYPICAL ANIMATION SEQUENCE FROM WHENEVER C.C INVADED SOMEONE’S MEMORIES OR SOMEONE INVADED HERS”
     I lovelingly borrowed the above from a kind /a/non on 4chan.
     Credit due: 10/03/08(Fri)17:17 No.15233428

     As mentioned, he could have died once beforehand for the purpose of activating the Code. The part about no visible Code Sigil was covered earlier. And the absence of the “TYPICAL ANIMATION SEQUENCE” (gotta love people who write in all caps) is pretty weak evidence. We’ve seen Lelouch use his geass on lots of people (mostly peons) throughout the series without going through his geass animation sequence.

     Additionally, whenever someone touched C.C. the only memories that were shown were from the person who was touching C.C., not C.C. herself. The only notable exception was Lelouch and that could be because he had a Geass Contract with C.C. Thus, follows, if Lelouch had a code, touching Lelouch would’ve only shown Nunnally’s memories not Lelouch’s memories, unless Nunnally had a Geass Contract Lelouch.

     This, on the other hand, would be strong evidence. It appears I didn’t remember those sequences as well as I thought I did. I’ll have to recheck to confirm (do you happen to know offhand the specific episodes?), but if it’s true you’ve just made my Code Geass day. Though note that that does not completely prove he didn’t have a Code, because with how little we know about how the Code works there could be some form memory transfer that doesn’t follow the examples of the ones seen so far. But that’s more in the realm of implausible-but-not-impossible speculation, and you seem to have provided enough evidence for me to declare the guy dead and buried. Thanks, and I enjoyed debating this with you. =)

171. Halcyon October 5th, 2008 2:55 pm

     @evaric

     This, on the other hand, would be strong evidence. It appears I didn’t remember those sequences as well as I thought I did. I’ll have to recheck to confirm (do you happen to know offhand the specific episodes?), but if it’s true you’ve just made my Code Geass day. Though note that that does not completely prove he didn’t have a Code, because with how little we know about how the Code works there could be some form memory transfer that doesn’t follow the examples of the ones seen so far. But that’s more in the realm of implausible-but-not-impossible speculation, and you seem to have provided enough evidence for me to declare the guy dead and buried. Thanks, and I enjoyed debating this with you. =)

     In episode 11 of R2, C.C. makes contact with Anya. This causes Anya to have a memory spasm and C.C. has flashbacks (of her own memories) from making contact with Anya.

     In this scene, you very clearly see the Code Sigil on C.C.’s forehead react and Anya has a flood of memories (her own and/or Marianne’s).

     With Suzaku, it happened way back in R1, Episode 11. At that time you clearly see C.C.’s Code Sigil glowing when she makes contact with Suzaku and Suzaku has flashbacks of his memories of killing his father.

     In both cases, the people touching the code holders didn’t get access to the code holder’s memories, just their own.

     And the pleasure has been all mine, Evaric. It’s been a real treat debating with someone who can match his text with solid, logical, rational thinking.

     P.S. It’s very common for Lelouch to geass people. It’s not as common for a code holder to come in contact with a normal person via touch.

172. Grimey October 5th, 2008 8:54 pm

     Despite the numerous arguments, I’ve seen no sure proof that Lelouch cannot be alive. Indeed, I think it is very probable that Lelouch is alive and well.

     It appears that CC views Lelouch as different from her earlier clients, and seems to accept a relationship. This indicates that she has an interest in preserving his life for a purpose besides the creation of a peaceful world.

     I suspect that Lelouch is the cart driver. Though we cannot know this directly, it is possible. More evidence could be gleaned if we knew whether the Geass sigil is still on CC’s forehead. If my theory that the cart driver is Lelouch can be valid, she must not have the sigil.

     In the final scene, the parts in her hair would reveal some portion of the sigil if it was there. I am incorrect in this assumption?

     I am not trying to discredit any others’ theories, but am trying to provide my own.

173. Iris October 13th, 2008 1:41 am

     I hated SUNRISE SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!
     …until after I analysed their clues etc eg Orange-kun’s non-distressed attitude when “Zero” stepped over him? He is, afterall, a protector of the royal family ie Lelouch, Nunnally and Marianne BUT when he failed to stop “Zero” Orangekun even smiled a tad :S
     strange huh?

     Well Sunrise better be making a R3 since the release of R2’s ending [which made ppl h8 them grr]

     Also, I dont dismiss the idea of Lulu passing on his Geass to Suzaku coz afterall he’s in the position to look after Nunnally BUT when CC tilts her head to say “ne Lelouch” the theory becomes less plausible

     And it seems to be a trend in R2 that ppl who SHOULD and supposedly “died” revives so if they can do that to all the other characters Lelouch CANNOT be killed off by a single stab in the heart/diaphragm

     they better make a movie too!! but these typpa movies are usually gay ><

174. Bankai October 15th, 2008 8:28 pm

     So are they gonna make a season 3 or no ?
     if they dont, F U Sunrise, i was almost about to cry at the ending
     this was the only anime that i really liked, and had some brain to it – except for some of the idiots take for example Ougi
     btw when the hell did the writer say that that was the ending of Code Geass ?

175. dymitr October 17th, 2008 4:51 pm

     The writer of this blog is not objective, he’s obviously Gundam-crazy.
     Therefore I would like you to refrain from badmouthing code geass with gundam-related arguments. I agree with you that Gundam-00 is awesome, but code geass R2 takes the cake( Knighmares before Gundams) .

176. Sidereal October 25th, 2008 8:51 am

     On the part about people being shown bleeding to death.

     Mao was shot by a whole police squadron and shown bleeding to death, and well…
     we all know what happens the very next episode.

177. ur gonna hate me gal November 15th, 2008 2:08 am

     Didn’t bother reading the comments- they got to long…

     Anyway, I’m about to cause the biggest wank ever.

     Ready? Okay. Lelouch is dead. By absolute rule of canon. Here’s why:
     1. Shitsu is the only one with a code (left).
     2. If you take someone’s code, they die(reference in episodes 21 and 22 [I think. Too lazy to check]).
     3. Shitsu isn’t dead.
     4. Your geass powers go away when you receive the code- hence why no one is falling in love with Shitsu.
     5. That sword…um…well, it caused a big enough wound that NO ONE would have survived it.
     6. Black hair is very common.
     7. No, really. It is. The animators just like messing with your head.

178. ur gonna hate me gal November 16th, 2008 3:33 am

     One thing to add, I’ve been reading some of the comments, and Chaotic Reaper, Marianne was dead. Her spirit existed, but her body did not. For all we know, Lelouch’s spirit still exists. Geass or not. The world of C could have even been Code Geass’ world of the dead.

     Also, Shitsu understood his reasons, that’s the look you’re confusing for happiness.

     As for Nunally, ‘Shitsu’ made some good points.

179. Pouting November 16th, 2008 3:57 am

     No one asked what CC’s name was… and we never found out… Have you no thought for anything but, “Lulu is ALIVE! No, he’s NOT! Is too! Is not!”

     AND Jeremiah Gottwald. He becomes the awesomest ever, lives up to Lulu’s ‘passing remark that will be overanalyzed’, and even earns brownie points for releasing Charles’ geass.

     Typical Lulu fans, never see past the main’s awesomeness…

     Don’t think it’s a flame,
     Pouting

180. stranger November 26th, 2008 5:42 am

     okay can anyone tell me what was so good about lelouchs plan?

     they want to tell us, that if the alliances wouldve succeeded over the britanians, the britatians wouldve continued war and so on, but if lelouch makes himself the enemy to the world and gets killed, all people would be satified and concentrate on peace.
     seriously, i dont like sick philosphy. i also got kinda brain washed from it.

     how about just trying to gain peace in a reasonable way. i dont understand why the makers had to spoil this anime in every way they could. well surely it isnt suprising since its a drama.

181. JadeMatrix November 26th, 2008 12:53 pm

     Jeez, I thought this argument had died in the minds of most sane people. Here’s an update that will probably not settle it once and for all:

     It appears the director/creator has come out with a Word of God statement saying that Lelouche really died. Which sucks, because it goes to show you how much he really cares about the fanbase. If you read the TVTropes article, we do have the option of ignoring him.

     Or we could interpret that as saying Lelouche did die, but came back with the Code, as has already been hypothesized. But that’d be stretching it, and it would make the director seem like less of a dick than he is.

     Positive evidence says Lelouche is still alive. The director says he died. And thus Code Geass’ legacy is effing screwed.

182. stranger November 26th, 2008 1:51 pm

     did he say that lelouch died as answer to the differences of opionion or did he just summarise the ending?

     i at least have no problem if he died. i just dont like the way he did. btw he deserved to die anyway, because he had killed toudos people. i dont mean those who took hostages, because he had to do it, but the ones after them with a bomb blast.

     BIG THANKS to the blogger, you really have explained much which was unclear to me. for example why lelouch was lying to suzaku in the meeting and why he told kallen, that he just used her when the black knights were going to kill him.
     and you pointed really good stuff out, like things about illogical things and about ougi, i just couldnt stop laughing

183. BRANDON December 21st, 2008 12:26 am

     well overall a good series but eventualy it spun out of control and became harder to keep up with than soultaker, im glad its over but it was good while it lasted but i definitly would not have wanted the series to be as long as naruto or bleach it would have been way to insain! ps. ironic end of episod elike 21 were pink hair euphy dies lulu says for creation there must be destruction no matter the cost.

184. neveronlyalways January 11th, 2009 1:40 pm

     We’ll I’m most likely point out that Lelouch must be alive.
     They saw that you can pass Codes when you beat and or kill an immortal. Technically, Lelouch killed his father in the episode where Marianne, (Please forgive me if I spell these names wrong) came back. His geass came in his other eye as well, and he was still sane…(mostly >.>). The code is most likely on his neck where his father gripped him as he faded away.
     As seen in other episodes, it was known that Lelouch, Suzaku, and random people could see her memories when they touched her, same goes for when Nunally grabbed his hand. Some people say that Nunally can, “see into people’s hearts by holding their hands.” If that were true, then she would’ve known that Lelouch was Zero a long time ago.
     As for the scene where C.C. was crying, people claim that he MUST be dead for that. But from C.C.’s point of view, immortality is a bad thing.
     And for the scene where Lelouch shoot’s his father nand see’s him dead, the immortality does not start unless you are killed. Therefore, once Lelouch shot him, he became an immortal.
     Lelouch became an immortal when Suzaku …stabbed?(right word?) him.
     As for the ending theme where C.C. is in the cart, she’s speaking to Lelouch. If you look closely at the cart driver, you can see that he has black hair, and who honestly covers up THAT MUCH?
     So, from my POV, Lelouch must be alive.
     Tell me if I missed anything?

185. Kris February 22nd, 2009 11:05 am

     Ambiguity is fine. Myself really like it. There are a lot of people yelling whether or not Lelouch is dead – we will probably never know. I would think he is. He got stabbed in the heart. It is possible that he was immortal (like CC or C2) at the time but they never discuss that. I like to tell myself that he is dead because I feel that’s a fitting way for him to die. He destroyed that world and it is now being rebuilt. It is now a kind world were Nunnally can live happily. She said all she wanted was to be with Lelouch but from the scenes that follow I think she has moved on. We will never know and it is probably meant to be that way. Ambiguous. Personally I like it this way. And like most anime, I like it for that reason.

     Loved the show.

186. SDS March 6th, 2009 1:11 am

     Although A LOT of people accuse R2 of not doing the 1st season justice in terms of story, characterization and/or mecha battles, I don’t believe that’s an accurate statement. Whilst the 1st season can be reviewed on its own, R2 cannot. However I admit, on first viewing R2 was definitely incoherent and lost its 1st season charms. Yet R2 offers, I would argue, fittingly extends season 1 to a somewhat fulfilling end.

     Many aspects of R2 depended on audience appreciation of season 1. R2 was a more radical development of season 1 groundwork thus it was impossible for it to remain Japan-centric given the events already occurred, meaning many of its plot holes were borne from the 1st season. To criticize R2 alone is probably an inaccurate attempt to compare a new series (season 1) with one that has been firmly introduced with many plots unsolved (R2). Viewers shouldn’t view R2 separately but a continuation. If you didn’t like R2, its because season 1 initiated plot-points that ultimately founded the ambiguities in R2.

     Story: I agree that it’s a bit convoluted, especially with the (unnecessary?) philosophical meandering. Part of the problem here was too many philosophical themes were hinted (life/death, will, time, peace, means/ends dilemma etc) but given truncated, poor plot tie-in explanations. It comes off as rather pretentious. However I would not have liked to see this series become overly philosophized so I think it was appropriate to tinker with this aspect and not have every character overtly ‘realize’ the consequences. The philosophical undertones are best to be interpreted by each viewer.

     The crux of the story was well constructed and executed barring a notable pitfall – whilst the 1st season was comprehensible after one viewing, most the episodes in R2 (especially towards the later half) required two+ viewings to really grasp aspects of the story and characterization. This was probably due to the Geass revelation which opened a can of worms for the story/plot, and abrupt story-telling.

     Characters: Although many have criticized the seeming ’sidelining’ of major characters and introduction of too many new characters, this isn’t exactly a flaw of R2 but a a story direction the creators saw fitting for Code Geass. Given the size of the events occurring in R2, it would be odd to have a small cliche of characters. There is emphasis on ‘collectives’ versus ‘human will’ (a underlying tone of misunderstanding versus ramifications versus unification/forgiveness) and that these are themes significant to ALL people and not just those of importance (leaders, royalty) thus the story had to show more characters being affected, their reactions and own interpretations. I think the series competently delivered each character’s outlook and predisposition. A fixation on 1st season characters and their development would take the story on a different angle. The ‘global effect’ of Lelouch’s actions and the story’s undertones in a way necessitated ‘more’ characters. Less focus on individuals may also be a premise to convey the de-individualising effects Charles, Schneizel and Lelouch was causing. But this interpretation is probably non-intentional by CG creators. I could probably give a fitting description for how each ‘major 1st season’ character has developed in R2, but those descriptions are at best extrapolations from the limiting nature of R2’s plot. Another aspect audience may not easily grasp is Lelouch’s complex character. It is highly dubious his initial motivation was ‘just’ to ‘protect’ Nunnally or find out who killed his mother since throughout the series Lelouch hardly reminisced of the ‘happy’ times with Marianne. Inciting a war is perhaps not the most ideal method to ‘protect.’. Its more probable Lelouch had mixed motives; he despised Marianne’s killer for ruining his life, and to an extent Nunnally’s life; and because Lelouch was angered by a system that prizes Darwinism (Britannia endorses survival of the fittest which normally connotes physical prowess) since he lacks those overtly physical qualities. Overall Lelouch is quite complex and the series absolutely did not convey his character to a level of clarity to allow the audience to really understand how he is able to change throughout the series, and where/when his sense of ‘justice/righteousness’ was attained to explain his final sacrifice.

     Mecha: If you seriously watched CG in anticipation of glorified mecha battles against a post-modernist or post-apocalyptic backdrop then say no more. For you have been greatly misled. Frankly, if anything is true about CG, it’s that people have liked it because Lelouch can still hand your ass to you on a plate without piloting a Gundam. Woops, I meant Knightmare. kNightmare? Seriously…

     Personally I have enjoyed Code Geass, even though R2 sensationalized things a little, but that surely should have been expected. The series as a whole worked well despite calls for more dead characters which I don’t understand. True some characters ’should be dead’ in terms of the realistic improbability of surviving some of the stunts they endure, but the story didn’t require anymore characters to die (exception: Schneizel). Besides since the protagonist ‘dies’ its probably safe to say you want more living minor characters just to help round out the ending. Anymore deaths would be attributed to Lelouch’s deception, created misunderstandings and his eventual plan, thus you would be adding to Lelouch’s sins. The final effect is far better this way so Lelouch is largely the bearer of the pain caused.

     These are my thoughts, and as of this date and from my projections, Code Geass will definitely surpass the mediocre effort that is Gundam 00.

187. sumo March 11th, 2009 9:10 am

     Speculation of Lelouch’s survival has certainly run rampant in various blogs I’ve encountered. The only thing I can think of that could possibly support his survival is the sudden memory flashback that Nunnally experienced when she touched Lelouch’s hand. It reminds me of a similar incident between C2 and Suzaku during the first season episodes. So far, no Geass-possessing character has demonstrated this particular event. From what is known about C2 is that she’s immortal. Well, if you put one and one together, you can further surmise that Lelouch has also become immortal. But then this raises additional questions: How and when did he become immortal? He certainly didn’t obtain immortality from Emperor Charles–otherwise, Lelouch would not have been able to use his Geass during his proclamation as the 99th Emperor.

     I really enjoyed this anime series and would look forward to a follow-up episode or season. However, I would also understand why the creator might not want to. Another season might dilute its emotional momentum. R2 did, after all, end at a high note.

188. SPM March 18th, 2009 12:53 pm

     I agree with your ending assessment. I HATE “OPEN TO INTERPRETATION” ENDINGS!!!! (a la Soprano’s) It’s the worst thing ever unless you plan on doing a sequel. Jesus, just spell it out for me!

     I don’t care if LL is dead or alive, just let me know which one and clear up some other questions not answered….like Did CC finally rid herself of the code? If not, that sucks for her.

     Rumor has it that the director said “Lelouch is dead”. I’m fine with that, but don’t just leave it at that. that statement is also “ambiguous”. the open ending is an insult to fans, give us closure.

     F@K Ledouch and Sunrise! drop dead!

189. taz452 April 2nd, 2009 7:05 pm

     Lelouch is alive if you don’t think he check the pic of C.C after the nun death
     and lelouch after his father death that is lelouch is the driver of the wagon
     with C.C at end

     lelouch after his father death
     http://randomc.animeblogger.net:8000/image/CODE%20GEASS/CODE%20GEASS%20R2%20-%2021%20-%20Large%2030.jpg

     C.C after the nun death
     http://randomc.maximum7.net/image/CODE%20GEASS/CODE%20GEASS%20R2%20-%2015%20-%20Large%2027.jpg

     lelouch have the code form his father and him and C.C can live
     with each for ever a happy end what the way i like it

190. cerebus23 April 4th, 2009 10:12 pm

     ya know i just watched the entire 2nd season in a maraton session.

     and did not like 100 posts up or something people claim that one could just obtain the code, by reaching a certain level of geass mastery? who is to say that he did not obtain that level of mastery? he conqueored the whole world, defeated charles and his mother using geass to stop them. and to top all that he used geass and never lost his soul like everyone else seemed to do while having it even C.C. almost everyone else went insane with power or desire or abused their power in one way or another, lelouch acted mad at times to throw people off but almost every action he took was true to his purpose of making a better world for his sister and ridding the world of tyrrany and dictorships.

     i kinda took it when he received the mark in his other eye, during the meeting wirth charles and his mother, that he had in fact reached a new mastery of his geass or heck it could be that was his code mark, but surely that second geass symbol that suddenly appeared meant something that has not been really discussed.

     where C.C or C2 or whatever you want to call her overused her geass until she began to understand that forced love is not real love and became so disillusioned with life she wanted to die. V2 was just an arrogant selfish lying bastage it seems from the very start killing lulus mother in some selfish bid to keep his brother true to him and got no better with age. charles got so bored with the real world all he could think about was destroying the world and stopping or reversing time and ending the life of “gods”. the last guy C2 tried to make a contract with turned into a stalker psychopath. rolo was not even “human” and was so obsessed with lulu that he killed one woman he loved and was going to kill his sister so he had no competition. and so on most of the geass players in the story had very flawed characters or reasons for being.

     and the end scene the driver’s got a towel, scarf, something over his head a huge floppy hat so you really can not make out the face, plus his build was very lulu like. which means one of 2 things that the show wanted to keep the option open and just made him all covered up like that. or it was lelouch, who’s face would be recognized all over the world being that he was the most hated dictator of the entire world, so he would have to be hidden while traveling.

     and C2s inflection, when she said “right lalouch” sure seemed like she was talking to the driver of the cart, and if her statement was not about their happiness hard to see why she would be musing about his or her solo happiness to herself outloud with some stranger driving the cart, nevermind that she loved him and he loved her. so kinda hard to see how she could be so “in love” cheerful if he was in fact dead.

     she had live 400 years or something i think it was in season 1 they mentioned, i might be wrong but that number pops to mind, or maybe i seen too many episodes of highlander. but she lived a long time in any case, and never met anyone that she could truely love, finally lets her heart thaw and falls for lalouch and then lets him kill himself, she of anyone knew his full plan from beginning to end and turned absolutely giddy, when he pushed kallen away to protect her, he obviously had feelings for her, and who knows if shirley had lived, but CC won he was the only woman left in his life, the one woman he trusted completely and one he cared a great deal about. tho seeing her shoot evil sideways glances or interrupting uncomfortable moments between lulu and other girls was always funny or her light jabs at all the zero fangirls to him.

     so for my money he is alive, maybe its just the romantic in me tho .

191. IMPORTANT UPDATE FROM SUNRISE April 23rd, 2009 11:04 pm

     Yes, its true, This morning, at the Tokyo Anime Convention with bandai and other major corporate sponsers, Sunrise confirmed two beliefs. They said that “take a closer look at the hay driver. notice the hair, and the collar? It looks like lelouch.” That is a translation, however, despite being a translation, it is still completely accurate. Lelouch survived, and in the Next season, they will be elaborating on it. The other belief is that a new season, R3 will be coming out. According to Megami magazine, Sunrise Code Geass team hinted a possible new anime of “Code Geass – Hangyaku no Lelouch” in the interview.

     Sunrise Code Geass Team said:
     “Even though Lelouch died(?), Geass lives on.” (Highlight to see Code Geass ending spoiler)
     We’ve already put an end to the series but we’re hoping for making something more. In the near future, we may be able to announce something new.
     Leaked by the newly formed AnimeJapan magazine group, thousands of people that have found out, are hyped for the new season. The series are said to come out sometime next year. For all those who have loved LeLouche and Zero, this is for your sake. Do not give up hope, he lives on, in both the story and our hearts. I hope this news has brought some comfort to those who believe that Llouch is alive.

     All Hail Lelouch

192. azul120 May 5th, 2009 8:58 pm

     Crusader, are you suggesting that Cornelia didn’t want to do what she did in her position in Britannia? She snapped at Euphie when the latter knighted Suzaku as part of her challenge to Britannia’s discrimination against Numbers. And judging from the hotel hijacking incident, she had seemingly no consideration for hostage situations. (She only cared because Euphie was in that building.)

     Say what you will about Lelouch, but to an extent he had always been fighting against Britannian tyranny, and in the end, atoned for his sins. If he deserved to die, then so did Cornelia.

193. IZZY!!!! May 7th, 2009 5:18 am

     I totally loved this whole series, and the fact that they had the main character die at the end was unexpected. i cried the first time i saw it, honestly. lol ima wimp. what i would like to know is what the song is that is at the ending. no, not the ending theme. the song that plays right when nunally starts wailing over her brother’s death and ends when C.C. comes in.
     if anyone knows please tell me, i like the song.

194. asaboy June 2nd, 2009 5:02 pm

     …i hope there part 3…

195. killua June 5th, 2009 6:53 am

     yeah me too… i hope that there have a part 3….. because it is boring if lelouch die

196. Azrael June 12th, 2009 2:05 am

     As for the allusions to King Arthur, the only ones I could piece together are these.

     1. King Arthur became king(of course), Lelouch became Emperor, both of which are the highest seats of power.

     2.This one seems really flip-flopped, but stay with me now. In the Original tale, Arthur’s killer, Mordred, delivered a fatal cleace to Arthur’s head, he achieved this when Arthur thrusted him with his spear. All of Arthur’s actions being that which is just. The Knightmare Mordred’s head was the only thing critically damaged, and Lelouch was impaled by what he said was “The Sword of Justice”. It got flip-flopped. Lelouch’s head should’ve exploded out of sheer amazement. And Anya should’ve been fucked up by Orangeboys “Blade of I-should’ve-died-earlier-in-the-series-but-I’m-still-here-for-no-apparent-reason”. Geez, if rolo was here he’d of offed them all off without hesistation. And that’s the only good thing about that guy. Nothing else. I’m serious.

     The “Merlin” Knightmare Frame will be introduced in the next series, seeing how Lelouch isn’t really dead, and decieved everyone once again. It’s main armament is a cannon that make the radar blip hundreds of “LOST” icons, whether or not it actually killed anything is unknown, because people are too lazy to look outside of the cockpit to confirm it, has the ability to recycle past characters, because we all know Nunally got boomed in that Fleija blast(I mean, come on, even Nunally’s advisor doesn’t show up anymore, yea that bitch, with the glasses), and is piloted by the cat, Arthur, because Arthur the Cat got Charle’s code and will now take the world by surprise with a grandiose and drawn-out plan like Lelouch ordered him to. Hey its not rape if you yell surprise.

197. Horanax June 24th, 2009 8:48 pm

     I have to say this cause I see a lot of people who agree with me that Lelouch is alive and driving the cab but no real reasoning, at least out of the posts I have read.

     First of all I believe he is alive because I believe that he has taken on the role of an immortal from CC. The reasons for this I will state later first I am going to state why I say this is possible for those that have forgotten. Lelouch’s father the Emperor of Britania took by desire the power of immortality from VV, upon doing so he seemingly lost the power of Geass but gained immortality. This is consistant with when CC gained the power immortality she lost her Geass of forced love. Lelouch had already reached a state of completed Geass where both eyes became active when he used his Geass to convince the subconcious of humanity to refuse his father’s plan. This so far just means that there is the possibility not proof that Lelouch is an immortal.

     My reasoning for him being an immortal is that I believe he did two things while dying that are only possible by the immortals who control Geass. The first were his parting words to Suzaku. I believe that they can be taken two ways, parting words to a friend who had to kill his own friend. Or how I believe they were given as terms of a contract, I believe that they were the formation of a contract between Lelouch and Suzaku where Lelouch gave him a Geass. The second event during his death was when Nunnaly touched his hand. She sees images of Lelouch and Suzaku planning this end to war. This could be the producers trying to remind the viewer what has happened in the past but any viewer that didn’t remember what he was doing is blind anyway. I believe this was use of the power that CC had where she could through touch view or allow to be viewed the memories of those in contact, similar to the event in the early part of the series when she stalled Suzaku then Lelouch touched her and saw her memories.

     This isn’t an open and shut case but I choose to believe based on that information that Lelouch is alive and well. Doesn’t mean that I wish to see them continue it cause the series had a good ending, but just my views on his condition at the end.

198. Myrvastion July 3rd, 2009 11:05 pm

     Now I know no one’s ever going to care what I say, but what I personally believe is that Lelouch is the cart driver. I think this because it is out of place and there is no reason to hide his face unless a. he is Lelouch and there fore needs to hide his face for obvious reasons or b. sunrise is simply trying to confuse us.

     Although conspicuous, the cart drivers hidden face means very little, yet the origami crane means quite a bit more. The crane is merely a keepsake of Lelouch’s and there is absolutely no reason for C.C to be carrying it around.

     Why is C.C happy about all of this?
     If Lelouch is dead, then this is a royal pain in the ass for her. She would still be immortal and as lonely as ever directly contradicting her final lines. This means that she is either mortal, or Lelouch is with her. Her being mortal would require that Lelouch takes her code, and is therefore immortal himself; and then if he is with her, that means he could have a. taken her code, made her mortal and come with her; or b. somehow obtained the only other code which is Charles’.

     When referring to Lelouch at the very end, C.C tilts her head back to the sky. Now either she’s gone nuts and is talking out loud to a dead guy and considered crazy by that guy driving the cart or that guy is Lelouch, and she’s not crazy because she’s talking right to him. One reason she might have looked up at the sky is because where else are ya gonna look in that position as you can’t look at the driver one because you’re above him and two it’s crazy hard to look back when you’re lying down like that.

     I’ve read here that the revival of the immortals is instantaneous.
     That is ridiculous. If that were so, then C.C would have gotten right back up when she got shot in the forehead in the very first episode, but she didn’t; in fact, she stayed there for quite a while it would seem as Lelouch had enough time to hijack Viletta’s Knightmare and then for Viletta to go after it.

     Again I’ve read something else here that when we see people lying in a pool of their own blood that means they are dead. Truly dead. Just because Lelouch is lying in a pool of his own blood, doesn’t mean he’s dead. Back to the first episode: C.C was lying in a rather large pool of her blood, yet she is pretty much the last frame before the end. A pool of blood is nothing.

     Then after all of this, Orange smiled and ordered a hasty retreat. Why would he do that? Another thing, why would he tell them to stop firing, charge Zero as if to attack and then to let Zero pass him so easily, and then even to smile and think “Go, masked knight”?
     He would have had to know about Lelouch’s immortality because otherwise he would never have ordered them to stop firing, and even if he did, he wouldn’t have let Zero pass like that, and then to think go, masked knight, he would be betraying his loyalty to Lelouch and the royal family. Something about Jeremiah is that he is 50% man 50% machine and 200% f****** loyalty. There is no way he would have ever let him go without a challenge unless he knew Lelouch’s plan and that he wouldn’t truly be harmed. And then on his farm, he’s too happy… he’s just to happy to not know that Lelouch is alive and well wandering the world. Then there’s how Lelouch got away before we woke back up, which will happen eventually, although we don’t know when, but it could have been at any moment. That’s why I think Jeremiah ordered a retreat when they could have easily taken them on; to hide Lelouch for when he wakes back up and to help him recover.

     When Lelouch was speaking to Suzaku, it did sound strangely familiar to what C.C said to Lelouch when she was making their contract. This is no evidence though. What is evidence is what happens when Nunnaly grabs Lelouch’s hand. She sees his memories of making the plan with Suzaku. She realizes the truth, and starts balling for Lelouch. The only one seen with this sort of power is C.C, who is immortal with a code. No, Nunnaly’s lie detector hand can’t read minds. I agree with something before about how she most likely can tell if they’re lying just because she’s blind, and blind people’s other senses are heightened with this disability and that just finalizes the fact that people can tell when other people are lying by their pulse. Another thing I’ve read is that she didn’t go into shock. Well who cares, when Lelouch touched C.C while she was slowing down Suzaku, she was making it where the memories obtained would shock you, not because you saw them in the first place but because they were horrible memories that would scar those who have not already witnessed it. All this combined just proves that somehow Lelouch has received a code in order to have the ability to transfer memories.
     Something I’ve read is that Nunnally is crying because she knows that her brother is dying, but what’s the difference between dying and never even seeing again. To her, he is dead.

     C.C crying at the altar could either be that she is crying about the fact that he is about to die and her wish will never be fulfilled or she is crying about the fact that he will have to live forever in her hell of immortality. It doesn’t matter if he lives or dies, she’s gonna cry.

     How he got the code:
     1. He got it from C.C:
     C.C could have given Lelouch her code, which would fulfill the contract, and remove his geass. This would also give her mortality, allowing her to die. Please understand that her giving her code to him does not kill her, but allows her to die. This is shown because V.V was mortally wounded before he lost his code and the nun went insane and committed suicide. Going out on a limb here though: if by sealing her code away, she became her old slave girl self, would not losing her code be the same thing as sealing it away, thus doing that would again revert her back to her old slave girl self, making her final monologue impossible? If that’s true, then that rules out the possibility of her giving her code to Lelouch.

     2. Lelouch obtained Charles’ code:
     Charles is still Lelouch’s father, and it was my impression that he did feel something for his son. Still being turned into pink glitter could have pissed him off. But either mad or being compassionate he could have given Lelouch his code. We don’t know if he can do this or not, all we do know is that someone must have achieved a complete mastery of his geass, and that the recipient must die for the code to activate. Lelouch may have taken Charles’ code as well, which could be against his character but is still within the realm of possibility, but he may have already had his plan of self-sacrifice planned out this far ahead therefore giving him motive to take the code which would give him the chance to fulfill both C.C’s wish and his plan of saving the world from hate. On the code being forced on him: it is already known that most people in this world view immortality as a curse and Charles may be using this as a punishment for destroying him. Again this is merely speculation, and quite a bit of what I said is only speculation, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not probably right.

     Now about you people saying that it’s no good unless he actually dies: BS
     It doesn’t matters if he actually dies and stays dead just as long as the world thinks he’s dead, then his goal is achieved. It may not be what you think he deserves, but if he needn’t be dead, then he needn’t be dead.

     It has been released somewhere in the dvd pack or something a list of those who died. The last on that list would be Lelouch vi Brittania 99th emperor of Britannia. True, he did DIE, but that doesn’t mean he is DEAD. To activate the code, one must first die; so yes, Lelouch died but he came back just as Charles, V.V, and C.C did. The whole part where you must first die for the code to activate would also explain how no one would have noticed his code on his body as it would not have appeared until after he has died.

     R2… what does it mean. It’s in the title so it must be important, but there is somewhere I’ve heard something like that before. Oh yeah, C2 and V2. Strange coincidence isn’t it? In English, we have our L for Lelouch Lamperouge, but when using our alphabet, the Japanese don’t, they simply have an R. and his given name in their language is Rurushu. Without ‘L’ Lelouch’s initials are R.R. That’s a witch’s name now isn’t it? It’s also in the title of the series: R2 = R.R. = L.L. = Lelouch Lamperouge, so through syllogism: R2 = Lelouch.

     Another thing about the title is this:
     Code Geass
     If Lelouch has taken Charles’ code, then that means that he still has his geass because it doesn’t cancel out the code. The reason the others don’t have their code is because their geass and code both came from the same person. When C.C. got her code, the nun didn’t have her’s anymore thereby cancelling her contract with C.C. And when Charles got his, the exact same thing happened. But Lelouch’s contract with C.C. would still be active if he got his code from Charles and this would enable him to reach “Code Geass” unlike any before him.
     Of course, I don’t have enough examples to say that this is a concrete fact, but I can say that the pieces fall into place a little to nicely for me to overlook this.

     There we are, why I believe Lelouch is alive and well, and hopefully I have persuaded some of you to believe that he is alive too; as if the guys that were here weren’t convincing enough. Anyways, thanks for reading this far, and listening to what I have to say.

     ALL HAIL LELOUCH!

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