Code Geass R2, Episode 20- Unfit to be Emperor
Lelouch, about your mother, I have something to tell you…
This episode left me with many more questions than I have answers once again. While last week was a “shit hits the fan” episode, this week we are back to setting up the next confrontation. The writers manage to reveal some supernatural tidbits along with a surprising character appearance, but only give us part of the truth. And unsurprisingly, Schniezel continues to forward his scheme for world domination.
Suzaku has gone from total moralfag to total anti-moralfag. It’s a progression that started when Euphie died last season, but it was kicked completely into place by the firing of FREIA and asserted powerfully during the coup scene later on. Nina, on the other hand, is just continuing to be irritating in her denial. It’s hard to believe that she was that blind to the effects of her weapon, and even if she really was I really don’t care about her at this point. Do us all a favor and kill yourself, reduce the cast numbers please.
Is it bad that while watching this scene I was thinking of what a great doujin it would make? I mean, I can’t be the only one thinking of Anya/Marianne x C.C. master/slave doujins right? Please tell me I’m right -_-
Edit: Lulz apparently I wasn’t the only one.
Uh, wtf? They gave us lots of hints that Anya had some connection to all this, but aside from some disputed spoiler magazine stuff that came out this week, the Anya is Marianne thing was a bit surprising. What I find amusing the most is Marianne’s personality. Despite the fact that one of her children is dead and her other child is on the run and being pursued by half the world she seems giddy and playful. It shouldn’t be too surprising considering the past, because if you think about it (even in this scene), it seems every time she talked to C.C., instead of worrying about her children and the state of the world she just kept trying to ship C.C. and Lelouch like a giggling fangirl.
The note about her personality, along with this statement, lead to some interesting speculations about Marianne. She asks C.C. is she’s still our ally, suggesting yet another faction that exists that perhaps is more important to Marianne then her children. You could go to the complete worst case scenario in thinking she’s only trying to use Lelouch to accomplish whatever goals this faction has.
Sealed her own code? From spoilers and what’s been shown in the episodes I thought Charles had taken it, so color me confused. Why would she seal her own code and memories if Lelouch was going to rescue her? Was this just an excuse for the writers to include moe moe C.C. for a couple of episodes? Your guess is as good as mine.
Hard to figure out exactly what her geass is at the moment, because we don’t know what exact state she is in. Did her geass transfer her soul/mind/essence/etc. into Anya? What happens to the real Anya? I’d also like to know what violation of the contract C.C. was complaining about. From what I gather this stuff should be explained next episode to some degree, and I hope they are thorough about it because this felt pretty rushed. Maybe they saw that they were running out of time to do everything they wanted so they are skimping out on some of the details to hurry things along. Wouldn’t be the first time anime production didn’t go just as planned.
O RLY?! If you tell the world Zero has MAGIX HAX they will laugh at you?!
O mighty penguin army, ye shall serve me!
I don’t think Orange-kun is going to buy that line of BS Ogui, he’s gonna come for you with his STORM OF LOYALTY. And Kallen once again affirms that she’s the #1 candidate to bail on the Black Knights to go back to Lelouch.
First thought? They skimped on the animation budget a bit this episode in several spots. It’s alright though for this type of episode, they will save it for the flashy action episodes and the final one I hope. Second, Lelouch now apparently does not care about the moral implications he’s just going to form up an army of mooks to take on daddy.
I love the happy music playing here, perhaps it’s called “Prelude to a Coup d’Etat?” Lloyd here is my hero, telling Suzaku to kiss his ass and calm down before he gets his new upgrade mech.
Oh dear, Suzaku is saying nasty things about her Guilford because he wants to become Knight of One. This scene was pretty hilarious, seeing Suzaku flex his “results man” muscles. A coup d’etat is a wonderful idea, and obviously it was something that Schniezel had been planning to do anyways. His reasoning and justifications for overthrowing the Emperor are pretty much a pile of bullshit, but that doesn’t matter to Suzaku. However, to those of us who have studied politics and history, many a government have been toppled by plans hatched in a small room by a few men.
Kaguyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Don’t cry, I’ll comfort you!
Gino, the next candidate to bail on Brittania and join up with Lelouch.
A sword Suzaku? Really? A sword? Leaving the matter that a sword wouldn’t kill the Emperor (seems neither Suzaku nor Schniezel know he’s immortal yet), we’ve seemingly added yet another geass this episode. This one was a bit more obvious, in a show about geass powers in your eyes, having a powerful character with his eye sewn shut radiates signs that he has a geass as well. Although we are left without knowing what his geass is.
Diethard got his ass kicked by someone, and made a really easy observation: Ogui is a complete idiot who can’t lead anyone and only thinks with his dick. Stuttering about and being useless, man this guy needs to be dead soon.
The Knight of One is so badass that merely crossing swords with him triggers Suzaku’s “live” geass.
The waifu is pissed OotBK, and she knows who is going after the Emperor, or so she thinks. She’s got some business to settle with Ougi, her husband is dead and she’s none too happy. Frankly, this little alliance between the OotBK, China, and Schniezel is unlikely to continue. Too much bad blood on all sides in addition to all of the manipulations and falsehoods being thrown around.
Not sure I like where this is going, when Marianne playfully asks if they should help Lelouch. Not sure that C.C. quite likes where it’s going either, perhaps she’s having second thoughts on where she stands regarding Marianne’s faction. Considering her attachment to Lelouch I hope she sides with him in the end.
CG goop with arms and legs sticking out looks really tacky.
The Emperor does not look pleased at the interruption
A lot of people have been saying, “omg Lulu is stupid why didn’t he just blow up the exit outside and not trap himself in there,” but that’s not the point. To Lelouch the only reason he has left to exist is to take out the Emperor, and doing so remotely and then living on would not be desireable. By his statements to Rivalz and to himself earlier in the episode he was not planning on coming out of this alive. Also, this allows him to find out the truth about things, because one figures if they are sealed in there for eternity he may learn what’s up. It does sound like the line for a corny episode of a sitcom though, a father and son who hate each other get locked in a room.
Next Episode:
Low quality extended preview of episode 21.
Next episode, a father and son trip to the library to find out all about Marianne and geass, it looks to be a truth revealing episode. “Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch’intrate,” (“abandon all hope, ye who enter here”) is a quote from Dante’s Inferno, in which that quote was inscribed on the gate to hell. Uplifting stuff eh? Also, the Knight of One kneels before Schniezel.
Crusader’s Angry Drunken Rant
I was going to do an Anya image dump to cover this space here, but looking through my pictures I found that I had very few SFW images of her. Kind of disturbing isn’t it?
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Isn’t Lulu going to be pissed when he finds out about Charles’ “out with the old, in with the new” plan? Isn’t Charles a “good guy”?
You could’ve used more Anya shots from this episode, given how slyly she was looking at C.C….
There were so many things in this episode that really show Taniguchi is just shitting all over the fans and his sponsors.
The whole Anya = Marianne in disguise (lol geasshax lets me transport my soulz, thx CC) is one thing. Suzaku going completely batshit crazy last episode then turning around and deciding “Hey, I wanna be just like Lelouch from now on. He was right after all! The ends really DOES justify the means!” in this episode is another.
C.C. magically sealing away her own code? WTF is THAT about?
But hey, at least Lelouch looks incredibly BADASS in this episode.
I really, really don’t know why they wasted 10 seconds on Rivalz. This many episodes in, does he really need more screentime?
It’s like the writers for this show have just decided to say “hey fuck it. We’re almost done let’s just throw any old shit in and see if it sticks”. I’ve seen fanfics that were better written than this. At this point, I’m really only watching for the “WTF” factor.
I haven seen the RAWS and from your info.. it sure seems like Marianne is the man… oh, sorry the woman behind the plans. How she just smiles when her son is trying get revenge for her death and dying in the process and her daughter just died in the same process.. what happened to the world????
And CC ain’t happy abt it, but hurrah!! Her memory is back and she will help Lulu…right?
Suzaku’s actions were wayy funny to say anything.. He is going to kill the emperor with a sword and ALONE. For one, a knightmare would have been way better (though it wouldn’t have worked anyway).. and then, he is the emperor for a reason, fool..
Lulu’s last sentence was pretty good.. but what are they gonna do, play cards OR play geass??? It’s a not a short time, you know.. I think C.C will do something..
Btw, Gino looked pretty cool in that shot despite of wasting that screentime, probably forshawding he is gonna join Lulu or something.. and Knight of One looked horrible (well, he is lihe that always..)
I love this but I wish they make a movie or another sason to REALLY wrap things up cause this is kinda rushed.
And nows whos to Coup de tat now that the emperor is locked is another dimension
why would gino side with lelouch because of the coup d’etat? lelouch wants the emperor dead too.
Halcyon: I don’t have any major problems with Anya being Marianne (in memories at least from what we can tell, the “true” Anya is probably just a victim in all this) because…they’ve been hinting that something’s up with her and that it does have to do with Marianne.
Even the first Japanese novel adaptation for R2 has some stuff about it, from what I’ve heard others say, so obviously that was part of the plan even if it looks rushed, not just Taniguchi saying “LOL I am going to make up stuff now” like you believe. Next episode is still coming up, so you could always wait a bit for more information.
Suzaku’s laugh was mostly directed at himself, realizing that his worrying about the methods was just idealistic crap and that if he’s responsible for so much death, he might as well go all the way and topple Charles while he’s at it. No real problem there either.
C.C. sealing away the code is more problematic, but it could also be explained next episode if we are lucky.
It’s not so much that the writing is bad as the execution is too rushed thanks to the time we wasted due to time slot move.
You’re free to do whatever you want though.
What do you want to bet that the black, oily, inky, pillar, helix thingies at the Sword of Akasha have something to do with the souls of the dead or something. Just as Lelouch and Charles get into it Charles pulls out the souls of Nunnally, Shirley, Rolo, Syoko or some combination thereof and give a passionate “I can save them” speech.
I’m actually starting to like Suzaku and Lelouch more and more , because despite the fact that they are getting even more wicked they are finally going all out instead of whining.
“Wouldn’t be the first time anime production didn’t go just as planned.”
Remember this R2 with like made on the fly.
Taniguichi never got his chance to animate the original R2 due to timslot issues.
http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/08/19/taniguchi-on-geass-not-as-planned/
shadowlancer: Not really “on the fly” when you consider all the time that passed between the end of season one and the beginning of R2, or did you forget about that?
Also, better read the actual interview for a more accurate description, in his own words.
http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/08/22/taniguchi-interview-from-the-roman-album/
This doesn’t mean that the “original R2″ is something unreachable and non-existent, but that they had to take too many detours first during the planning phase between seasons.
Again, the fact that there are Anya - Marianne hints in the R2 novel shows that some previous thought had been put into this, even if it didn’t always translate too well on screen because of the programming slot changes.
@Lelangir
Don’t think Lulu really cares what Charles’ plan is, because it inevitably involves survival of the fittest, etc. He just really wants to fuck up daddy’s plans because he’s pissed.
@Haesslich
Too much stuff happened in this episode that I wanted to show, and I try to keep myself from having a million images in a post :p
@Halcyon
I don’t think he’s really shitting all over anyone, I’m reserving judgment on that tell all interview until the show is done with. I will tell you this, shows never go as planned. Creators have input, but those who fund them almost always have a say in content so it’s not some big revelation. He’s just kind of whining and trying to play martyr.
The show is all about the WTF factor, that’s the best part of it. Should be everyone’s primary reason for watching.
@Emmi
Marianne’s loyalties and goals are still up in the air at this point, but it doesn’t look good from what we’ve seen so far.
Maybe they will play catch and catch up on each other’s lives!
@D
Because it’s a Sunrise show? They will find a way!
@XXX
A lot of time was wasted on retarded Ashford hijinks and other pandering bullshit as well =/
@Jeph
It’s certainly possible, they could be some sort of gods, lifestream, souls, etc. but Charles was talking to them before he activated the Ragnarok so who knows.
@Shadowlancer
I’ll copy and paste what I said above in regards to that stuff:
“I’m reserving judgment on that tell all interview until the show is done with. I will tell you this, shows never go as planned. Creators have input, but those who fund them almost always have a say in content so it’s not some big revelation. He’s just kind of whining and trying to play martyr.”
@XXX:
I don’t have any major problems with Anya being Marianne (in memories at least from what we can tell, the “true” Anya is probably just a victim in all this) because…they’ve been hinting that something’s up with her and that it does have to do with Marianne.
They could’ve handled the MariAnya connection any number of ways but these just seems like a forced cop out having Marianne’s “soul” reside in Anya’s body via Geasshax. I don’t think there could’ve been a tackier and contrived way to resolve the questions regarding their connection. It’s just… bad writing, IMO. And it’s not limited to that particular instance/revelation, that is just an example of how the entire episode is piss-poor.
As Calawain so poignantly noted, the episode “seems rushed”. IMO, it looks like it was cobbled together with whatever spare ideas they had on hand.
Even the first Japanese novel adaptation for R2 has some stuff about it, from what I’ve heard others say, so obviously that was part of the plan even if it looks rushed, not just Taniguchi saying “LOL I am going to make up stuff now” like you believe. Next episode is still coming up, so you could always wait a bit for more information.
It was clear from some interviews that Taniguchi had he was not happy with the time slot change for CG R2 and he had to scrap a lot of his original plans for this season in order to accommodate the new prime time slot. Whether this episode (or really, entire season) is a product of his frustration is up to speculation but the episode in its entirety just reeks of trainwreck.
Suzaku’s laugh was mostly directed at himself, realizing that his worrying about the methods was just idealistic crap and that if he’s responsible for so much death, he might as well go all the way and topple Charles while he’s at it. No real problem there either.
It really goes against Suzaku’s character after some 46 episodes to finally embrace Lelouch’s ideology of “anything goes” to obtain his goals. It’s really just a rehash of Ougi’s betrayal of Zero/Lelouch in trying to salvage SOMETHING in exchange for giving up his moralty. The difference is Ougi had an external motivator for his treason: Viletta as further reinforced by Diethard’s observations in this episode. Suzaku’s motivation for treason is personal ambition: Becoming the Knight of One which is all fair and fine but that goes against Suzaku’s character of “earning” his way to the top and changing Britannia from within. Instead, in this dog-eat-dog world of competitive backstabbing, Suzaku has chosen to embrace the methodology of status quo as opposed to reforming it. Which again, goes against his own stated goals and character.
At this point, with Suzaku essentially BECOMING another Lelouch (except on Schneizel’s side), I really wouldn’t be surprised if they killed him off near the end of the series. Because honestly, with Charles, Schneizel, Lelouch and now MariAnya do we really need another schemer in this series?
C.C. sealing away the code is more problematic, but it could also be explained next episode if we are lucky.
It’s highly doubtful considering C.C. stated in this episode that she doesn’t know herself. The next episode seems to be focused around Charles and Lelouch inside the Kamine Island Thought Elevator and with so many OTHER open developments (Kaguya arriving on the Ikaruga, Schneizel heading to Kamine Island, Bismarck fighting to protect the Great Britannia from revolt, and Marianne’s undiscovered scheme and “ally”), I doubt they’ll touch on C2’s reason behind sealing her code. This will be more of a “flashback” episode before Lelouch assumes the throne as the next Emperor of Britannia.
It’s not so much that the writing is bad as the execution is too rushed thanks to the time we wasted due to time slot move.
I whole-heartedly disagree. As I said before, there were many different avenues they could’ve used to resolve some of the open subplots in Geass and the direction they’ve taken towards wrapping up the series (so far) just screams Trainwreck. Is it possible that it will turn around and Taniguchi will gift us with a brilliant finale to the series? Doubtful. Highly doubtful. He really bit off more than he could chew with this second season and while I laud his lofty aspiration of attempting to adapt to the demands of the new timeslot, I cannot ignore the reality of the finished product which is far from quality.
Taniguchi himself has stated that he intended to end the series with Ep 26 of Season 1 then fan support and the merchandising ambitions of Sunrise gave birth to Season 2.
@Calawain
I’ve read the interviews he’s given that explain WHY the show turned out so different from Season 1 and, IMO, it seems like both Taniguchi’s frustration with the change and his own limited creativity really shown in this season.
I say he’s shitting on the fans because he’s pulling all of this stuff from seemingly nowhere and throwing it in at the END of the show. It just seems forced and unnatural when you compared to earlier episodes and to S1.
Also @Calawain
I’m okay with WTF moments as long as they make sense within the context of the show and enhance the quality of the show but these last couple of WTF moments (especially in this episode) were just really bleh.
I’m glad I have Baccano! on stand-by for moments like this.
@Halcyon: “They could’ve handled the MariAnya connection any number of ways but these just seems like a forced cop out having Marianne’s “soul” reside in Anya’s body via Geasshax.”
I think that the basic idea could have been shown differently, and better, with more screen time dedicated to it (aside from next week’s), but I don’t see any problem with the concept, since even C.C. is another example of how memories can be fucked up. Heck, this entire show abuses amnesia so much that it somehow fits the theme anyways.
“As Calawain so poignantly noted, the episode “seems rushed”. IMO, it looks like it was cobbled together with whatever spare ideas they had on hand.”
It’s not like I’m denying it is rushed, I just don’t have that little extra bit of scorn, as if to say “the staff are lazy retards” at the end.
”
“It was clear from some interviews that Taniguchi had he was not happy with the time slot change for CG R2 and he had to scrap a lot of his original plans for this season in order to accommodate the new prime time slot. Whether this episode (or really, entire season) is a product of his frustration is up to speculation but the episode in its entirety just reeks of trainwreck.”
Everyone on the internet (or so it seems) has read that interview (or the incomplete and partial summary, but the direct translation is available too) by now, even me. Yet I still would bring up the same point again (I’d even go ask around for the exact bits from the R2 novel if you don’t believe it), since you didn’t address it. Once again, I think it’s rushed too, but I stop short of the conclusions you reach.
“It really goes against Suzaku’s character after some 46 episodes to finally embrace Lelouch’s ideology of “anything goes” to obtain his goals. It’s really just a rehash of Ougi’s betrayal of Zero/Lelouch in trying to salvage SOMETHING in exchange for giving up his moralty. The difference is Ougi had an external motivator for his treason: Viletta as further reinforced by Diethard’s observations in this episode. Suzaku’s motivation for treason is personal ambition: Becoming the Knight of One which is all fair and fine but that goes against Suzaku’s character of “earning” his way to the top and changing Britannia from within. Instead, in this dog-eat-dog world of competitive backstabbing, Suzaku has chosen to embrace the methodology of status quo as opposed to reforming it. Which again, goes against his own stated goals and character.”
After nuking so many people you’d think he’d snap, trying to come to terms with what he’s done, one way or another. What good is the ideal of “changing things from within” if, due to a Geass placed on you by Lelouch no less, tragedies keep happening and in numbers that can’t be waved away? Better to cut all the red tape and get done with it. I don’t see much of a problem with Suzaku reaching that conclusion. It’s not like human beings don’t experience such changes, in reality and in fiction.
“At this point, with Suzaku essentially BECOMING another Lelouch (except on Schneizel’s side), I really wouldn’t be surprised if they killed him off near the end of the series. Because honestly, with Charles, Schneizel, Lelouch and now MariAnya do we really need another schemer in this series?”
He’s not exactly “scheming” like Lelouch would, he’s taking the fight directly to the Emperor, since he believes that taking him down for Schneizel will make him Knight of One now, instead of waiting N years when he’s already bloodied his hands in a way he can’t ignore, even if Lelouch is also responsible.
“It’s highly doubtful considering C.C. stated in this episode that she doesn’t know herself.”
It was also stated (by Marianne) that it could perhaps be revealed back in reality, or something akin to that. C.C.’s words aren’t the entire story here.
“The next episode seems to be focused around Charles and Lelouch inside the Kamine Island Thought Elevator and with so many OTHER open developments (Kaguya arriving on the Ikaruga, Schneizel heading to Kamine Island, Bismarck fighting to protect the Great Britannia from revolt, and Marianne’s undiscovered scheme and “ally”), I doubt they’ll touch on C2’s reason behind sealing her code. This will be more of a “flashback” episode before Lelouch assumes the throne as the next Emperor of Britannia.”
Considering that Charles’s and Lelouch’s talk just HAS to involve Marianne a this point, that pictures of V.V. and C.C. are shown in the preview, that Marianne-Anya and C.C. are already in the island…I think it’s fair to wait. If anything, I think that the messy events in the “real world” will get only a small fraction of the screen time next week…like in episode 15 or so.
“I whole-heartedly disagree. As I said before, there were many different avenues they could’ve used to resolve some of the open subplots in Geass and the direction they’ve taken towards wrapping up the series (so far) just screams Trainwreck. Is it possible that it will turn around and Taniguchi will gift us with a brilliant finale to the series? Doubtful. Highly doubtful. He really bit off more than he could chew with this second season and while I laud his lofty aspiration of attempting to adapt to the demands of the new timeslot, I cannot ignore the reality of the finished product which is far from quality.”
Then simply continue to disagree just as I’ll continue to do the same. No problem with that, or is there?
I, in part, actually share some of your complaints even if I don’t reach the same conclusions you are repeating, or simply the fact that I’m willing to simply wait.
This same general plot, with more screen time dedicated to the messier bits (which wasn’t possible because of the demands of the time slot), would be perfectly okay by me.
“Taniguchi himself has stated that he intended to end the series with Ep 26 of Season 1 then fan support and the merchandising ambitions of Sunrise gave birth to Season 2.”
Actually, I think you’re completely misunderstanding what he said. He made the ending to season one a cliffhanger with the intention of making a sequel to it, even if those plans suffered changes due to the time slot move.
He was thinking of quitting if the series had ended with episode 23 because of the two wasted (NOT AS PLANNED) recap episodes, but fan support and logically Sunrise’s authorization allowed him to make the cliffhanger ending he had always wanted. And a cliffhanger ending like that just screams “sequel”.
But once again, whatever you say.
@Calawain:
“A lot of time was wasted on retarded Ashford hijinks and other pandering bullshit as well =/”
Well of course. I’m in agreement with that. If the series had picked up without any time skip and right after the cliffhanger, like Taniguchi planned according to the interview, we would have far less of those (though still some, let’s not pretend they weren’t there, even if less so).
@Halcyon: “I’m glad I have Baccano! on stand-by for moments like this”
Almost everything else aside, I’m glad that you do. Baccano! is an excellent series.
“It does sound like the line for a corny episode of a sitcom though, a father and son who hate each other get locked in a room.”
or a very disturbing yaoi episode… *shudders*
@XXX
I think that the basic idea could have been shown differently, and better, with more screen time dedicated to it (aside from next week’s), but I don’t see any problem with the concept, since even C.C. is another example of how memories can be fucked up. Heck, this entire show abuses amnesia so much that it somehow fits the theme anyways.
I just think the entire concept of body snatching is really retarded and out of place for this show.
It’s not like I’m denying it is rushed, I just don’t have that little extra bit of scorn, as if to say “the staff are lazy retards” at the end.
I didnt go THAT far. I’m just saying they’re running on empty and it shows. It seems they literally had nothing left and resorted to picking the fastest means to wrap up the show within the production schedule.
Yet I still would bring up the same point again (I’d even go ask around for the exact bits from the R2 novel if you don’t believe it), since you didn’t address it.
I didn’t address the R2 novel because I don’t see how it fits in with the show. Was the novel written by Taniguchi? Is it considered canon? Often, literary works are treated separately from animated works and have their own established timelines/histories/character interactions.
After nuking so many people you’d think he’d snap, trying to come to terms with what he’s done, one way or another.
Yeah, but in 24 hours he did all that? I mean, seriously, that’s a bit … fast don’t you think?
What good is the ideal of “changing things from within” if, due to a Geass placed on you by Lelouch no less, tragedies keep happening and in numbers that can’t be waved away?
Tragedies have happened with or without Lelouch’s “live” Geass. Japanese were being summarily executed by Britannians before Suzaku got Geass’d. The only “tragedy” attributed to Lelouch’s Geass was really the massacre at the SAZ stadium in Season One. If anything, this episode proves that even while under the influence of Geass, the individual still retains some control as Suzaku stayed to fight (and even charged) the Knight of One instead of running away as his Geass told him to when Bismarck drew his mega-blade.
Better to cut all the red tape and get done with it. I don’t see much of a problem with Suzaku reaching that conclusion. It’s not like human beings don’t experience such changes, in reality and in fiction.
The problem is that it’s a total 180 for the character. It essentially makes him into another Lelouch, without the underdog status. And why does the series need 2 Lelouchs for using the exact same methodology? Instead of 2 revolutionaries trying to achieve goals using different methods, you’ve got 2 revolutionaries who are identical in their methods but different in their positions. One’s an outsider the other is an insider. What made the contrast between Suzaku and Lelouch interesting was the difference in ideology with Suzaku basically capitulating to Lelouch’s world view it makes Suzaku irrelevant as a character.
He’s not exactly “scheming” like Lelouch would, he’s taking the fight directly to the Emperor, since he believes that taking him down for Schneizel will make him Knight of One now, instead of waiting N years when he’s already bloodied his hands in a way he can’t ignore, even if Lelouch is also responsible.
Suzaku is shown as the one who’s prodding Schneizel to overthrow the Emperor to make him the Knight of One. If that isn’t scheming to attain his personal goals, IDK what is. He may not be on Lelouch’s level yet but he’s certain starting to dsplay Lelouch-like traits more and more. If it continues they’ll be indistinguishable from each other.
Considering that Charles’s and Lelouch’s talk just HAS to involve Marianne a this point, that pictures of V.V. and C.C. are shown in the preview, that Marianne-Anya and C.C. are already in the island…I think it’s fair to wait. If anything, I think that the messy events in the “real world” will get only a small fraction of the screen time next week…like in episode 15 or so.
C.C. has already had a back-story/expository episode dedicated to her. This next episode seems to be about Charles/Marianne from the previews and will most likely seek to explain how Marianne got her Geass, what her plans are, how she got into Anya and the truth behind her “murder”. While it may be “fair” to wait, I just don’t see a high probability of addressing C2’s Code Sealing in the next episode with so much other stuff going on.
This same general plot, with more screen time dedicated to the messier bits (which wasn’t possible because of the demands of the time slot), would be perfectly okay by me.
I don’t think you can lay the entire blame on the change in time slot, especially when you’re 20 weeks into the show and the show has already shown issues with meeting it’s production schedule. What the change in time slot does is pare down the writers ability to write for adults and force them to write for a more child-friendly audience but that shouldn’t have substantially deviated the overall plot of the show.
Actually, I think you’re completely misunderstanding what he said. He made the ending to season one a cliffhanger with the intention of making a sequel to it, even if those plans suffered changes due to the time slot move.
I’ve never seen him mentioning creating Season 1 with the intention of additional ovas/movies/episodes. From my understanding, the original script called for 24 episodes with 2 more episodes being produced after the first season’s run ended. The last 2 episodes that were Taniguchi’s original intended proper ending to S1. It was the popularity of S1 and Sunrise trying to cash in that prompted them to fund an S2 but I’ve never seen anything indicating that Taniguchi had anything planned for a possible second season BEFORE CG became a merch giant.
He was thinking of quitting if the series had ended with episode 23 because of the two wasted (NOT AS PLANNED) recap episodes, but fan support and logically Sunrise’s authorization allowed him to make the cliffhanger ending he had always wanted. And a cliffhanger ending like that just screams “sequel”.
I haven’t seen anything indicating that Taniguchi planned anything beyond the cliffhanger ending before Sunrise greenlit a second season for CG. Maybe I missed something but IDK! From what I read, CG had always been intended as a 1 season show and it was the fan’s support that gave it a second season.
@Halcyon: “I just think the entire concept of body snatching is really retarded and out of place for this show.”
Well, I definitely disagree there since the Geass power allows for many forms of mind and memory tampering. Not much else I can say.
“I didnt go THAT far. I’m just saying they’re running on empty and it shows. It seems they literally had nothing left and resorted to picking the fastest means to wrap up the show within the production schedule.”
I believe that they’re doing that not because they lack ideas but because they lack time…and, if you will, didn’t scale the story down to a simpler form when they had the chance to do so, when R2 was retooled into something other than what Taniguchi originally planned.
“I didn’t address the R2 novel because I don’t see how it fits in with the show. Was the novel written by Taniguchi? Is it considered canon? Often, literary works are treated separately from animated works and have their own established timelines/histories/character interactions.”
No, but those novels are written with some input from Taniguchi and the staff, even if only in terms of their general content. I believe he even wrote the foreword or something similar for the first season one novel too. It wouldn’t make sense otherwise.
In other words, they are not canon, in terms of details and specific events, but the existence of Anya-Marianne hints is a sign of what was planned for the show. I’m not talking of their continuity, but of the process behind them: the idea already existed.
“Yeah, but in 24 hours he did all that? I mean, seriously, that’s a bit … fast don’t you think?”
Of course. Haven’t said otherwise. I’m admitting that this episode, and others though less so, have been rushed.
“Tragedies have happened with or without Lelouch’s “live” Geass. Japanese were being summarily executed by Britannians before Suzaku got Geass’d. The only “tragedy” attributed to Lelouch’s Geass was really the massacre at the SAZ stadium in Season One. If anything, this episode proves that even while under the influence of Geass, the individual still retains some control as Suzaku stayed to fight (and even charged) the Knight of One instead of running away as his Geass told him to when Bismarck drew his mega-blade.”
It would seem logical (even for Geass) that those 10-35 million people killed or wounded by the nuke far outnumber the victims of Euphie’s massacre, or would you argue otherwise? I’d think that would be a much more traumatic event.
That’s a nice point about the fight against Bismark, but then again the “live” Geass would have been pretty useless if he simply let down his guard in order to flee, and he ended up running away afterwards in any case. I’d say he ran away at the first available chance, in a way.
“The problem is that it’s a total 180 for the character. It essentially makes him into another Lelouch, without the underdog status. And why does the series need 2 Lelouchs for using the exact same methodology? Instead of 2 revolutionaries trying to achieve goals using different methods, you’ve got 2 revolutionaries who are identical in their methods but different in their positions. One’s an outsider the other is an insider. What made the contrast between Suzaku and Lelouch interesting was the difference in ideology with Suzaku basically capitulating to Lelouch’s world view it makes Suzaku irrelevant as a character.”
Irrelevant to the old status quo, you mean. But that is changing. It doesn’t seem like the two being “revolutionaries” in such similar-but-different positions will last much longer, from the looks of things, since Lelouch is already face to face with Charles while Suzaku is allied to and serving Schneizel’s coup. The next couple of episode titles are indicative of some additional changes as well.
“Suzaku is shown as the one who’s prodding Schneizel to overthrow the Emperor to make him the Knight of One. If that isn’t scheming to attain his personal goals, IDK what is. He may not be on Lelouch’s level yet but he’s certain starting to dsplay Lelouch-like traits more and more. If it continues they’ll be indistinguishable from each other.”
Schneizel didn’t need much prodding, honestly, and Suzaku was very direct about why he wanted that to happen: he’s open about his goals (Knight of One) and the scheme is simple, more or less in plain sight already.
I think he just seized the moment when Suzaku gave him something remotely resembling an excuse. If anything, I think Schneizel is more of a schemer than anyone else in that room, since not all his machinations are known to others and he just loves to act.
“C.C. has already had a back-story/expository episode dedicated to her. This next episode seems to be about Charles/Marianne from the previews and will most likely seek to explain how Marianne got her Geass, what her plans are, how she got into Anya and the truth behind her “murder”. While it may be “fair” to wait, I just don’t see a high probability of addressing C2’s Code Sealing in the next episode with so much other stuff going on.”
The thing is, C.C. is directly related to Marianne in several ways. Her “not knowing” about why her Code was sealed seems like a way to avoid answering the question. I would think that, if she gets a chance to talk to Lelouch, Charles, Marianne or even all three at once, the issue will be addressed somehow. Probably next episode or, at least, at some other time. If it isn’t ever brought up again and the series ends, then I’d concede the point to you automatically, since it would be obviously problematic.
“I don’t think you can lay the entire blame on the change in time slot, especially when you’re 20 weeks into the show and the show has already shown issues with meeting it’s production schedule. What the change in time slot does is pare down the writers ability to write for adults and force them to write for a more child-friendly audience but that shouldn’t have substantially deviated the overall plot of the show.”
Not entirely, the staff is also co-responsible for not choosing to simplify the story into something they could handle or what have you, but that’s the root of the problem. We wouldn’t have a time skip and no need to re-introduce the show to the “new” audience by going all over Zero’s standard menu and so forth.
“I’ve never seen him mentioning creating Season 1 with the intention of additional ovas/movies/episodes. From my understanding, the original script called for 24 episodes with 2 more episodes being produced after the first season’s run ended. The last 2 episodes that were Taniguchi’s original intended proper ending to S1. It was the popularity of S1 and Sunrise trying to cash in that prompted them to fund an S2 but I’ve never seen anything indicating that Taniguchi had anything planned for a possible second season BEFORE CG became a merch giant.”
If you want to get technical, I have heard that the original, original plan was for 50 episodes, but only a first season of 25 was first approved. You are also forgetting that there were 2 recap episodes in season one. However, read on…
“I haven’t seen anything indicating that Taniguchi planned anything beyond the cliffhanger ending before Sunrise greenlit a second season for CG. Maybe I missed something but IDK! From what I read, CG had always been intended as a 1 season show and it was the fan’s support that gave it a second season.”
Let me quote from the Taniguchi interview I’ve already linked to:
“During production, to be honest, I wanted to finish it off. This was a personal intent, different from that of the production commitee.
So, although there were two recap episodes, these were not planned from the beginning. I wanted to go straight to 25 in one shot, but due to circumstances related to religion, two eps were cut, and it became a 23-ep series.
I thought, as director, I’d have to take responsibility for this, and retire from the industry.
This was the toughest time, but at that time, I received sufficient support from the viewers, and was able to produce eps 24 and 25. With this I was able to finish it off the way I had planned. I was very grateful.
But then, another distressing time. Ep 25 was written completely under the premise “In half a year, I’ll be able to continue with ep 26 in the same timeslot.” But that was ruined. If I think of it now, there are good sides to it to, but at the time, I became useless to the viewers.”
http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/08/22/taniguchi-interview-from-the-roman-album/
The “religion” bit is open to interpretation, for the record, but the rest of the points are what I’m talking about.
You don’t mean to say that such an episode “26″ during the same time slot wouldn’t have been part of a second season, 6 months later?
Of course, this doesn’t mean that Sunrise and their interests were not involved in approving the sequel and everything else.
@Halycon
Like I said before, producers always have input on content. If people are going to raise a ruckus over Geass then they should raise a ruckus over every other anime that’s been changed due to the guys paying the bills wanting something different. I don’t see why everyone is making such a big deal about it.
He’s not pulling stuff from nowhere starting now, the entire series is shit pulled from nowhere. Season 1 was not a bed of glorious roses, there was plenty of trainwreck and retarded stuff then too. Be careful of tunnel vision.
Never saw Baccano! myself, couldn’t get past the first episode. Too weird for my tastes.
@XXX
I don’t necessarily think that we would have. Taniguchi had plenty of retarded school hijinks episodes in season 1 (Arthur episode was by far the stupidest) as well as entire throw-away arcs (Mao arc, let’s go to Australia!). So, just don’t assume that if he had it his way it would be glorious and orgasmic.
@EvilDevil
BAD MAN, YOU ARE A VERY BAD MAN
@Halycon and XXX
Do not turn this entry into a flood of essays about that interview. If you want to debate that interview do it on Koda’s blog where you got it from, not here. Try to please limit comments to the episode at hand.
@Calawain: Sorry, will stop that right there. Just needed to clear up what he actually said, I don’t want to go much further than that.
I tried to keep most of the post related to the episode itself, or at least R2, but I’ll drop the interview issue as such.
“I don’t necessarily think that we would have. Taniguchi had plenty of retarded school hijinks episodes in season 1 (Arthur episode was by far the stupidest) as well as entire throw-away arcs (Mao arc, let’s go to Australia!). So, just don’t assume that if he had it his way it would be glorious and orgasmic.”
I’m not saying it would be perfect, but it could have been better.
Yes, those hijinks would still be there in some form because of that, but I would think we could have seen less of them this season, no? Since there would be little need to make Ashford the starting point for the plot or to make it stick around to reintroduce Zero’s double life, if the cliffhanger was picked right up without any time skip. That much is what I assume.
@XXX
Well, I definitely disagree there since the Geass power allows for many forms of mind and memory tampering. Not much else I can say.
That’s really the point isn’t it? Most of the Geass we’ve seen (Rolo, Mao, Lelouch, Charles) have had to do with altering someone’s mind in some sort (in Mao’s case it was reading minds) but having someone bodyjack someone seems really ridiculous.
I believe that they’re doing that not because they lack ideas but because they lack time…and, if you will, didn’t scale the story down to a simpler form when they had the chance to do so, when R2 was retooled into something other than what Taniguchi originally planned.
R2 was supposed to be the end of the story regardless. I don’t think it was a lack of time because the only thing they had finished at the time of the timeslot change was the script (to my knowledge). No storyboards or animation were done. The timeslot change should have only affected the mature content they could show (i.e. Nudity and Violence) to comply with the censorship guidelines, not the actual story, at least not in a terribly significant way.
No, but those novels are written with some input from Taniguchi and the staff, even if only in terms of their general content. I believe he even wrote the foreword or something similar for the first season one novel too. It wouldn’t make sense otherwise.
In other words, they are not canon, in terms of details and specific events, but the existence of Anya-Marianne hints is a sign of what was planned for the show. I’m not talking of their continuity, but of the process behind them: the idea already existed.
Non-canon = irrelevant, imo. It may as well be fan-fiction if it has no impact on the story.
It would seem logical (even for Geass) that those 10-35 million people killed or wounded by the nuke far outnumber the victims of Euphie’s massacre, or would you argue otherwise? I’d think that would be a much more traumatic event.
I’m not comparing which is the bigger tragedy. What I’m stating is that tragic events are independent of Lelouch’s Geass, with the notable exception of Euphie’s massacre which was caused directly because of Lelouch’s Geass.
That’s a nice point about the fight against Bismark, but then again the “live” Geass would have been pretty useless if he simply let down his guard in order to flee, and he ended up running away afterwards in any case. I’d say he ran away at the first available chance, in a way.
This is really just false. His Geass was telling him to flee as soon as Bismarck drew his sword and yet he continued to fight which is directly in contradiction with his Geass. Suzaku didn’t run away at his first available chance, he ran towards what he thought was where Lelouch was. It’s not like he was running away from the Knight of One he was trying to find out where Lelouch was.
Irrelevant to the old status quo, you mean. But that is changing. It doesn’t seem like the two being “revolutionaries” in such similar-but-different positions will last much longer, from the looks of things, since Lelouch is already face to face with Charles while Suzaku is allied to and serving Schneizel’s coup. The next couple of episode titles are indicative of some additional changes as well.
Yeah, again that doesn’t address Suzaku’s 180. Lelouch has a reason to change. He’s lost everything. His organization, his partner, his raison d’etre. He has nothing left to keep him going hence why he wants to seal himself with the Emperor because there’s nothing left for him to return to.
Suzaku, on the other hand, is just taking a shortcut to becoming the Knight of One. “If I can’t get it from the current Emperor, let’s depose him and maybe the new Emperor will make me Knight of One”. The previous Suzaku has never shown signs of disloyalty towards Britannia or the Emperor and his sudden urge to become the Knight of One sooner rather than later is really odd when you factor in Schneizel’s new alliance with the Black Knights. If Schneizel is going to give Japan back to the Japanese then why become the Knight of One at all? Why not just quit and join the Black Knights?
It just doesn’t make sense, logically.
Schneizel didn’t need much prodding, honestly, and Suzaku was very direct about why he wanted that to happen: he’s open about his goals (Knight of One) and the scheme is simple, more or less in plain sight already.
Yeah, but Suzaku would’ve never thought of betraying the Emperor before. His recent ambition at the cost of his morals is relatively new. Suzaku has been walking the edge between morality/immorality the last few episodes but in this episodes his completely abandons all of his scruples.
I think he just seized the moment when Suzaku gave him something remotely resembling an excuse. If anything, I think Schneizel is more of a schemer than anyone else in that room, since not all his machinations are known to others and he just loves to act.
Well it’s apparent that Schneizel is top-schemer but wasn’t apparent was that Suzaku had the ability to scheme along with the others. That’s a new development which is not within Suzaku’s character. It’s like he’s become a different person in this episode and the point I really want to drive home is that he’s emulating Lelouch which really marginalizes Suzaku’s contribution to the overall story. As I said, we don’t need 2 Lelouchs with the same aims/goals and methods.
The thing is, C.C. is directly related to Marianne in several ways. Her “not knowing” about why her Code was sealed seems like a way to avoid answering the question. I would think that, if she gets a chance to talk to Lelouch, Charles, Marianne or even all three at once, the issue will be addressed somehow. Probably next episode or, at least, at some other time. If it isn’t ever brought up again and the series ends, then I’d concede the point to you automatically, since it would be obviously problematic.
I think the “Code Sealing” along with the Anya/Marianne bodyjacking were both just quick fixes by the writers to resolve long-standing questions like “What happened to Marianne? What’s Anya’s connection to Lelouch? What happened to C.C’s code?” that didn’t really require any more exposition.
Not entirely, the staff is also co-responsible for not choosing to simplify the story into something they could handle or what have you, but that’s the root of the problem. We wouldn’t have a time skip and no need to re-introduce the show to the “new” audience by going all over Zero’s standard menu and so forth.
IMO, they did the opposite. The story was pretty simple in S1. They made it more convoluted with the introduction of all these multiple factions in S2. It’s like watching Gundam Wing all over again where the enemy is constantly shifting from Suzaku to V.V. to Charles to Schneizel and the constant realignment of characters is just dizzying. They had a great foundation to build on, ultimately they just couldn’t adapt and that led to a lot of bad writing to cover up for their shortcomings.
If you want to get technical, I have heard that the original, original plan was for 50 episodes, but only a first season of 25 was first approved. You are also forgetting that there were 2 recap episodes in season one. However, read on…
Fair enough!
Of course, this doesn’t mean that Sunrise and their interests were not involved in approving the sequel and everything else.
Sunrise has had a long-standing tradition of trying to bleed a series dry for merchandising value.
@Halcyon: “That’s really the point isn’t it? Most of the Geass we’ve seen (Rolo, Mao, Lelouch, Charles) have had to do with altering someone’s mind in some sort (in Mao’s case it was reading minds) but having someone bodyjack someone seems really ridiculous.”
It may be, but I view it as an extension of that power and not just ridiculous by itself.
“R2 was supposed to be the end of the story regardless. I don’t think it was a lack of time because the only thing they had finished at the time of the timeslot change was the script (to my knowledge).”
Lack of time in R2 itself, I mean, after the modifications made to the first half or so. Which they could have anticipated and adjusted the story’s pace, I admit, which was a mistake on their part and does make them sloppy. But not “LOL we are making stuff up”. Keeping in mind what Calawain said about not dragging this out into essays and whatnot, I’m just going to leave a link with another person’s opinion about what a time slot change can do. It’s not the absolute truth, but it’s a starting point.
http://trainwreck.ggkthx.org/2008/08/20/changing-the-time-changing-the-show/
“Non-canon = irrelevant, imo. It may as well be fan-fiction if it has no impact on the story.”
Agree to disagree then. For me non-canon is not equal to irrelevant if the staff had access to the novels in order for them to be (shock) adaptations of the show.
“I’m not comparing which is the bigger tragedy. What I’m stating is that tragic events are independent of Lelouch’s Geass, with the notable exception of Euphie’s massacre which was caused directly because of Lelouch’s Geass.”
But this most recent tragic event also involves Lelouch’s Geass or, more to the point, his actions and his connection with Suzaku.
“This is really just false.”
On second thought, this is debatable, I admit. I’m not entirely sure about it, so you could be right. Might need to re-watch. Point then.
“It just doesn’t make sense, logically.”
Schneizel is only going to give Japan to the Japanese if they give him Zero, and Suzaku doesn’t appear to know that right now either. I think the nuking and its carnage, and his co-responsibility for it, are enough to force Suzaku into re-evaluating his point of view and accepting to take a short cut after all. The reason he was sticking to the “right methods” was to prevent more death and destruction, and also as a form of personal punishment, but that hasn’t worked out and the latest tragedy makes it clearer than ever.
“Yeah, but Suzaku would’ve never thought of betraying the Emperor before. His recent ambition at the cost of his morals is relatively new. Suzaku has been walking the edge between morality/immorality the last few episodes but in this episodes his completely abandons all of his scruples.”
Because if you are co-responsible for the deaths of millions that makes your hands far dirtier than you could ever have imagined. What is disloyalty compared to that?
“It’s like he’s become a different person in this episode and the point I really want to drive home is that he’s emulating Lelouch which really marginalizes Suzaku’s contribution to the overall story. As I said, we don’t need 2 Lelouchs with the same aims/goals and methods.”
Arguably, Lelouch’s crumbling house of lies and his confrontation with the Emperor would make him re-evaluate his aims/goals, at least, if not all his methods, though that process is not over yet.
“I think the “Code Sealing” along with the Anya/Marianne bodyjacking were both just quick fixes by the writers to resolve long-standing questions like “What happened to Marianne? What’s Anya’s connection to Lelouch? What happened to C.C’s code?” that didn’t really require any more exposition.”
Depending on what happens next week and beyond, I’ll think about it, but for now I disagree.
“IMO, they did the opposite. The story was pretty simple in S1. They made it more convoluted with the introduction of all these multiple factions in S2.”
That would be the result, but I think their intentions were to make R2 a series that did not require R1, due to the new time slot and overall executive pressure, but they more or less failed in the long run and lost track of the time, one way or another. Hence I don’t think that the “fixes” came out of nowhere, just that they have suffered from time compression. Like this very episode.
That is a sign of bad writing or perhaps bad planning, I’ll give you that.
“Sunrise has had a long-standing tradition of trying to bleed a series dry for merchandising value.”
I wouldn’t disagree with that, just with how it’s applied to this show in particular.
Damn all of those who caused Kaguya-hime cry >_>
*sarcastic tone* Wow so strange to see people fighting here *sarcastic tone* oh well it’s entertaining to see both views on things but I don’t wanna meddle (to tired to think well)
I believe that some some major feces will hit an object with blades used to blow wind in a certain direction very soon. But that’s as some of you have already said what makes this series great. Also why do I get the vibe that Marianne is evil????? And how could she take over Anya’s soul and what will be of Anya T-T (also the fact that Sunrise found a way to “revive” marianne who says the same can’t be done for Nunally?
I hope next episode is one of those episodes were they reveal alot of shit cuz we’re nearing the end and I still got alot of questions and I don’t want them to leave it to the last two episodes to end like 10 plots at the same time that would be a very crappy ending.
Another thing is this episode gives me the feeling that Suzaku will join with Lulu since they now share the same “ideals” sorta which in a way makes me happy because moralfag is no longer here but I still feel he is a bastard or an idiot both of them suck for him.
Some little things I like to point out
-Lelouch is a badass he finally did the anti plot geass command *do as I say* yusssss, and then made them make a show for him to walk to his father in a grand fashion oh lulu you evil genius you.
-I really hope Jeremiah isn’t an idiot and buys into the Order’s shit I hope he kicks their asses OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORAAAAAAAAANGEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!
-AWWW no more moe C.C. oh well
-They freed Kallen from a prison to put her in another with a bunch of retards Kallen just start kicking asses and find a way to free lulu from an eternity of playing chess with his father.
-Wondering if lulu can kill his father if his geass becomes advanced he can take his code so hmmmmm…..
-Also wondering what geass does Waldstein have even though it glowed it didn’t seem to do anything so wth?
-I can’t belive C.C. went back for chese-kun but didn’t get a pizza for the trip.
@Calawain
I just remembered that we won’t be able to party at Crusader’s since Cornelia didn’t join Lulu. Don’t know why I remembered that now but just saying.
ALL HAIL THE PENGUINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and lulu *cough*
Damn! If someone did stories of Lulu/Anya and they get… things before Lulu finds out that Marianne is using Anya cause she wants to…
I can’t wait to see doujins about this.
I’m really getting a bit tired of people quoting this interview as an excuse to come up with all kinds of wild and season spanning theories about R2. Considering pretty much all it says with regard to R2 is that he wanted to start off season 2 right where season 1 left off and wasn’t able to do that I don’t get how we’ve reached the point where the entire series was just made up on the fly. I mean what can you even tell from that. We can speculate forever and probably annoy the hell out of Calawain in the process (Hell I’m forbidding discussion on it in my episode 20 article period) and still only come up with nothing concrete or applicable to the current stage we are at in the series.
And look folks, if Taniguchi and Okuchi want to have a Geass that can place Marianne’s concious mind inside Anya’s subconcious then it’s their business. I don’t recall anybody putting a limit on the number or abilities of the geass’ when they announced the main gimmick of the show. And it’s not like it wasn’t hinted several times that Anya and Marianne had a deeper connection then just Anya having known her some time in the past so the revelation doesn’t come as much of a surprise to me. Calling it sudden because of where it takes place in the episode is fair enough, if I were storyboarding I would have probably put it just before the eyecatch, but calling it random and out of nowhere, not so much. Same goes for Bismarck although Calawain already covered him. The only part I’m not feeling is the whole C.C sealing her code thing. Like Calawain said I thought Charles was supposed to have taken it from her since he is now clearly immortal. I don’t think it was an excuse to have moe C.C, but something else pertaining to the Geass that we haven’t been made privy to yet.
Anyway yawn with all the quotes that contain “bad writing” and “only reason I watch this is because” or some random ode to a specific character. These one liners are getting old from overuse to the point where anytime I see them I just end up skipping past the post/comment with an eyeroll. A part of me regrettably can’t wait for the show to be over if only to be done with the talking points once and for all. Came for the show left moments into the discussion is how I tend to feel in the second half of the season, or as Han Solo put it “*Blaster Fire* *wince and shrugs* Oh well, it was a boring conversation anyway *Runs away*”.
The show might play fast and loose and feel a little sudden at times, almost cliche, and people might have their favourite or loathed characters that they want everyone to know about, but the reactions to these moments and the out of the ass assumptions on where the show is heading are almost always more…..well facepalm inducing.
At this stage you’d think the internet would have taken a chill pill and just fallen into watching the end of the show before coming up with a final judgement call. I think we can all wait the month can’t we?
Well at least my Cornelia-hime is being radiant as ever I hope my hime supports Odysseus for Emperor given how Schniezel was not looked upon favorably. I also have a sliver of hope for CorneliaxVilleta taking over Ashford All Girls Academy now huzzah!
@Kaioshin
“Do not turn this entry into a flood of essays about that interview. If you want to debate that interview do it on Koda’s blog where you got it from, not here. Try to please limit comments to the episode at hand.” - Calawain
Next time just please don’t bring it up…
Anyway yawn with all the quotes that contain “bad writing” and “only reason I watch this is because” or some random ode to a specific character. These one liners are getting old from overuse to the point where anytime I see them I just end up skipping past the post/comment with an eyeroll. A part of me regrettably can’t wait for the show to be over if only to be done with the talking points once and for all. Came for the show left moments into the discussion is how I tend to feel in the second half of the season, or as Han Solo put it “*Blaster Fire* *wince and shrugs* Oh well, it was a boring conversation anyway *Runs away*”.
This was not necessary and this has little do with the events of the episode, please if you must attack the other posters as eyeroll inducing then use a bit of discretion and do it on your on blog. We already have our hands full keeping this post civil and frankly that comment you made is hardly helpful. Since you have high tailed it and ran with you knickers in a twist there will be no next time.
I have had a long day being out gunned at paintball for most of the day, don’t make me repeat myself, not today at least. Same goes for the rest of you the next person who mentions that interview here will have their comment edited or outright deleted. Calawain has made his statement I will enforce it.
Anya NSFW pics. Want.
im confused, anya is marianne? (?)
i find how they revealed anya as marianne… weh. “Oh! it’s episode 20! let’s awaken her already.” i don’t know… the episode was kinda all over the place.
And so the hellmarch of the penguins finally begins! We will have a new world order!
Of penguins.
[...] me at the moment with Cheese-kun to have yuri sex confront Charles and Lelouch. I also wish for Anya X C.C [...]
Nobody finds it odd that Marianne can enter the World of C seemingly at will?
Or that Marianne has zero (lolpun) concern for Lelouch or Nunnally?
She’s listed on the Geass Official Website as part of the Britannian Faction so maybe she’s working with Charles on his “worldo destruction” plan?
If Marianne was inside Anya all this time, how was she able to “talk” to C.C. during Season 1 and 2?
Lulu, you fool.
@Xrampage
Don’t worry, we will hold executions for all those responsible. There will be justice for all loli abuse.
@Cj
You get the bad vibes from Marianne because she’s all happy and doesn’t seem to care about her kids in addition to talking about her little faction of folks. But yeah, I think next episode we will find out most of the truth.
I hope Suzaku and Lelouch don’t join up, too much bad blood.
Yes, it appears at this point Cornelia is too rabu rabu with her ani’ue so there will not be a party at Crusader’s. Which is unfortunate because I’m sure it would have been bitchin.
@Ominae
Japan will not disappoint us, I guarantee it.
@Kaioshin
It’s really poor netiquette to ignore the fact that I asked not to discuss something and then you go ahead and do it anyways and “run away.” Reflects poorly on your character as a blogger yourself.
@Crusader
All hail pedobear Odysseus! So the Council has spoken, so it shall be!
@Ryuua
They aren’t hard to find, a few are on AS and the rest you just have to lurk on 4chan. Start an Anya thread on /a/ and I’m sure some will show up
@Rollchan
We are all confused, the answers come next week unfortunately.
@CI
They will conquer and reverse global warming to usher in a new ice age!
@Halcyon
I think we all find it odd, which is why we all went WTF? And she’s listed in the Brittanian faction because she was a Brittanian queen and there has been no explicit declaration of any allegiance to the contrary.
@Calawain
I’ve thought about that but technically she’s supposed to be “dead” or is believed to be dead by all of Britannia (with the possible exception of Charles and/or Schneizel).
V.V., on the other hand, was actually allied with Charles and Britannia but was grouped separately (as was Orange-kun, until he defected to Lelouch’s side). This leads me to believe that when she mentioned to C.C. about still being “our” ally, she was referring to herself and Charles (as Charles would be the only other person that could be aware of Marianne having a Geass contract from their earlier days together).
Now this brings up another interesting point of whether or not Marianne may have been manipulating Lelouch via her “mindlink” through C.C.
Furthermore, what will happen to Lelouch if he finds out that his mother was/is still alive and that her “death” may have been staged to allow her to work behind the scenes? Lelouch has always had a very deep attachment to his mother and I think discovering that his mother is not only alive but has been watching and plotting from afar may have a profound impact on his already fragile state of mind.
Another thing I’d like to see is what role Schneizel played, if any, in this massive coverup since he was responsible for taking care of Marianne’s body after her “death”.
One could speculate that Marianne’s body is still alive and she just projected her consciousness onto Anya via Geasshax (that makes more sense than body snatching, imo). Charles could’ve rewritten everyone else’s memories to make them believe that Marianne was murdered in order to allow her to fulfill her part of the master plan.
If this is the case, she’s probably just AS bad a parent as Charles is for literally using her children as pawns/abandoning them in favor of their collective grand scheme.
That would be another shocking OMGTWEEST to the Geass Saga.
When I saw CC’s face inside the Modred, I thought, “CHIAKI~~~ :D”
waiit…so is Anya Marianne in a different form? Or is Marianne controlling Anya through her geass??
I think Marianne is controlling Anya because Anya was born before Marianne supposedly died.
@Halcyon
The new character chart now reflects her current known association. /a/ says the relation translates to “sharing the same body.”
@Calawain
You’re right it would’ve been bitchin T-T
It also came to me that if Anya has had Marianne in her all along or she is Marianne somehow. Also then what happened to the Anya we all know and love?
hey two quick questions how many people think this is the last season cause i do?
and which is bigger morderd or gaiwan
@Halcyon
I don’t know, bodysnatching sounds pretty elegant to me. Imagine Anya as some random Genteel playmate of Nunally that had the misfortune of being the last person to lock eyes with Marianne in life and got a mental gestalt crammed into her for her trouble.
For the rest of it… Marianne was a person that Charles liked to the point he got two progeny on her when he didn’t have to, the person Cornelia is incarnating with her life, and a close ascociate of pre-rediscovery-of-human-feeling CC (also known as the CC that walked the world purposely spamming demigod powers to the young and testosterone-poisoned, seeking out those that would use their powers to such extent with such abandon that they’d evolve them to the point they could replace her). Weighed against the opinion of Nunally, who liked everybody, and Lelouch, who was young, wronged, prone to putting things on pedastels, and has a really bad track record for that sort of thing.
Yeah…
It does kind of fit.
I don’t know why but I can be doing the most random thing and all of a sudden I start thinking of Code Geass and start to wonder about things and then a “what if” hits me…. yes I am bored but anyway back to the reason I came here I just thought what if Jeremiah meet’s Anya/Marianne???? He would be rabu rabu over her making for lulz XD. Also if he were to geass cancel her wouldn’t he be killing Marianne? (and even though geass canceling is neat jeremiah hasn’t cancelled anyone in a while, in fact he’s only geass canvelled two people (that we know of) in the entire show one being himself and the other Shirley come on why give him a cool power if he doesn’t use it I mean even Suzaku got to fire a nuke.
Whats AS?
already some startling similarities between nge and cg.
first off, shinji/lelouche hates his father and loves his mother. gendo/charles never cared for him, gendo/charles abandoned him. gendo/charles was responsible for the death of his mother.
but ACTUALLY, yui/marianne orchestrated her own disappearance because she was looking years into the future, and either saw a greater threat or had a greater purpose that trumped any obligations to her son. yui/marianne proceeds to have her spirit/soul/mind sealed within unit01/Anya. then yui/marianne can reawaken with epic plot hax whenever the critical moment approaches. by the way, this whole time gendo/charles is preoccupied with some metaphysical goals like instrumentality/killing the gods, which remains some mysterious thing not revealed to the audience until the last few episodes.
also rei/anya is totally moe and socially inept, remains a loyal tool to gendo/charles up until the end. also rei/anya has a strange connection to yui/marianne, leading the viewer to think that rei/anya is somehow shinji/lelouches mom.
@Calawain
- I know, mate. Better yet, Marianne using Anya’s body to get it on with Lulu and then she reveals herself to fool Lulu and to make lots of love to him. XP
There must be a reason behind the story like why Marianne used Anya for herself.
Wait stop the presses! did anyone else notice the scene with Lelouch on the Rivals? Rivals reveals that Lelouch’s living space is gone. I think this points to the idea that Fleia did not kill everyone but instead transported them to another place, like the Thought Elevator universe where Lelouch and Charles are now trapped. Lelouch is going to find Nunally and Sayoko having tea in there old room somewhere in that universe I just know it!
@Lowlife
Or it means he’s got three families of refugees using his foyer as an emergency shelter.
I think people are forgetting the most important part of this episode: that is the fact that Marianne is obviously still alive so Lelouch’s entire revenge quest was all for nothing. It’s hilarious that he’s still blaming others for the deaths of his loved ones when he is the one responsible for their deaths. If he hadn’t been so hellbent on revenge at the start of the show, and just decided to live normally like his sister, none of this tragedy would have befallen him.
@HalcyonIsAnIdiot
Not really, the emperor would’ve still carried out his plans which, from the looks of it, means the end of the world and if Lelouch hadn’t done nothing he won’t be able to stop him as we all know he will in the end. You’ll see
I had to pause the show when they showed that Anya was Marianne. I was floored.
When is episode 21 coming out?
To be honest i’m just enjoying it as the delightfully overblown piece of melodrama that geass is. It’s got be watching anime again and for that i’m glad
Just waiting for UK release of series one now, which i have a feeling won’t be any time soon