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	<title>Comments on: [LWC 61] Visual Study in Feminine Finger Positions</title>
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	<description>THAT blog of various wonders!</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:18:24 +0800</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: Gattino</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-289412</link>
		<dc:creator>Gattino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 22:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-289412</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m seconding the biological idea. My hand is naturally like that, and I&#039;m a girl. It&#039;s a pain in the ass when I want to tell folks to live long and prosper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m seconding the biological idea. My hand is naturally like that, and I&#8217;m a girl. It&#8217;s a pain in the ass when I want to tell folks to live long and prosper.</p>
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		<title>By: Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann Parallel Works 8 - Something we can truly call a PARALLEL works. &#171; Certifiably Insane</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-270221</link>
		<dc:creator>Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann Parallel Works 8 - Something we can truly call a PARALLEL works. &#171; Certifiably Insane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Sep 2008 19:04:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-270221</guid>
		<description>[...] Remember Lelangir&#8217;s study in feminine finger positions? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Remember Lelangir&#8217;s study in feminine finger positions? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Now Cracks a Noble Heart &#171; The Animanachronism</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-267253</link>
		<dc:creator>Now Cracks a Noble Heart &#171; The Animanachronism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-267253</guid>
		<description>[...] Look at the hand. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Look at the hand. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: [LWC 62] Spiritual Harbinger Though Kinetic Autonomy &#124; Super Fanicom</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-266680</link>
		<dc:creator>[LWC 62] Spiritual Harbinger Though Kinetic Autonomy &#124; Super Fanicom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Sep 2008 17:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-266680</guid>
		<description>[...] ↩[LWC 61] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ↩[LWC 61] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ponytale</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-265623</link>
		<dc:creator>ponytale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 09:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-265623</guid>
		<description>Hmm... but could it be just a biological thing? I looked at my own fingers when my hand is in a relaxed state and they are naturally placed in that position you highlighted. I&#039;m a girl btw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm&#8230; but could it be just a biological thing? I looked at my own fingers when my hand is in a relaxed state and they are naturally placed in that position you highlighted. I&#8217;m a girl btw.</p>
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		<title>By: Antique Bakery - 08 &#171; Death by Moé</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-264668</link>
		<dc:creator>Antique Bakery - 08 &#171; Death by Moé</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 17:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-264668</guid>
		<description>[...] and Ono with his usual fear of women and male/female related things. AND LOOK AT THOSE FINGERS! It&#8217;s funny how I notice the position ever since I read the post. It&#8217;s really [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and Ono with his usual fear of women and male/female related things. AND LOOK AT THOSE FINGERS! It&#8217;s funny how I notice the position ever since I read the post. It&#8217;s really [...]</p>
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		<title>By: lelangir</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-263402</link>
		<dc:creator>lelangir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 20:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-263402</guid>
		<description>Dinadan: I&#039;m a guy, so I was never taught this. No girls my age (19) have ever mentioned this to me, and I don&#039;t see it in real life. Given, I live in America, so maybe it depends where you live. In any case, both these things you mentioned bring up how it transverses both generations and cultures.

I don&#039;t necessarily think - given my American position - this is a &quot;tradition&quot; as it&#039;s used here in anime. I don&#039;t think the animators are saying &quot;they should hold their fingers like this to keep up the tradition of graceful finger positions&quot; - the thing isn&#039;t an end in itself. I wouldn&#039;t say there is any real intent behind this; it&#039;s just a device to illustrate femininity, but where intent ends, subconscious takes over and then you&#039;d have to view the transnational, transgenerational aspects of femininity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dinadan: I&#8217;m a guy, so I was never taught this. No girls my age (19) have ever mentioned this to me, and I don&#8217;t see it in real life. Given, I live in America, so maybe it depends where you live. In any case, both these things you mentioned bring up how it transverses both generations and cultures.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t necessarily think &#8211; given my American position &#8211; this is a &#8220;tradition&#8221; as it&#8217;s used here in anime. I don&#8217;t think the animators are saying &#8220;they should hold their fingers like this to keep up the tradition of graceful finger positions&#8221; &#8211; the thing isn&#8217;t an end in itself. I wouldn&#8217;t say there is any real intent behind this; it&#8217;s just a device to illustrate femininity, but where intent ends, subconscious takes over and then you&#8217;d have to view the transnational, transgenerational aspects of femininity.</p>
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		<title>By: Dinadan</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-263390</link>
		<dc:creator>Dinadan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 19:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-263390</guid>
		<description>My mother once related to me that back in high school in the 1940s, she was taught the Seven (I think) Feminine Hand Positions, and that they were taught this so that they might look graceful and sophisticated.  Apparently, this was part of the normal school curriculum for girls back then, but I haven&#039;t been able to convince google to puke them up.

What you&#039;ve noticed in Anime are the same thing - I&#039;ve seen the hand/finger positions that Mom demonstrated for us over and over again.  Are these now only taught as part of an arts curriculum - ie, drawing, dance, etc? Or how is this tradition being kept alive?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My mother once related to me that back in high school in the 1940s, she was taught the Seven (I think) Feminine Hand Positions, and that they were taught this so that they might look graceful and sophisticated.  Apparently, this was part of the normal school curriculum for girls back then, but I haven&#8217;t been able to convince google to puke them up.</p>
<p>What you&#8217;ve noticed in Anime are the same thing &#8211; I&#8217;ve seen the hand/finger positions that Mom demonstrated for us over and over again.  Are these now only taught as part of an arts curriculum &#8211; ie, drawing, dance, etc? Or how is this tradition being kept alive?</p>
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		<title>By: lelangir</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-263329</link>
		<dc:creator>lelangir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-263329</guid>
		<description>Square: Lancelot&#039;s fingers were pretty amusing, yeah.

xilex: Apparently &lt;a href=http://www.iwatchstuff.com/2007/04/26/spiderman-web.jpg rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Spider Man&lt;/a&gt; has his fingers in a different way, but I can sort of see what you mean. Actually, I think that&#039;s the METAL position and thus makes it more masculine than feminine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Square: Lancelot&#8217;s fingers were pretty amusing, yeah.</p>
<p>xilex: Apparently <a href=http://www.iwatchstuff.com/2007/04/26/spiderman-web.jpg rel="nofollow">Spider Man</a> has his fingers in a different way, but I can sort of see what you mean. Actually, I think that&#8217;s the METAL position and thus makes it more masculine than feminine.</p>
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		<title>By: xilex</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-263179</link>
		<dc:creator>xilex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 03:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-263179</guid>
		<description>What does this say about spider-man? :P His fingers do the same thing when he&#039;s swinging around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What does this say about spider-man? <img src='http://that.animeblogger.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />  His fingers do the same thing when he&#8217;s swinging around.</p>
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		<title>By: Square</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-263138</link>
		<dc:creator>Square</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 23:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-263138</guid>
		<description>Wow never notice, but now that you pointed it out, it&#039;s freaking hilarious :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow never notice, but now that you pointed it out, it&#8217;s freaking hilarious <img src='http://that.animeblogger.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: lelangir</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-263108</link>
		<dc:creator>lelangir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:30:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-263108</guid>
		<description>Manuerukun: Yeah, now that you mention it, I do clearly remember it in that OP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Manuerukun: Yeah, now that you mention it, I do clearly remember it in that OP.</p>
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		<title>By: Manuerukun</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-262899</link>
		<dc:creator>Manuerukun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 02:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-262899</guid>
		<description>I realized this &quot;moe&quot; finger position when I saw Elfen Lied.

Watch it closely. The whole OP and series is full with this pose.

Personally, I think it looks very cute ^^b</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realized this &#8220;moe&#8221; finger position when I saw Elfen Lied.</p>
<p>Watch it closely. The whole OP and series is full with this pose.</p>
<p>Personally, I think it looks very cute ^^b</p>
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		<title>By: lelangir</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-262820</link>
		<dc:creator>lelangir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:58:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-262820</guid>
		<description>psgels: &lt;em&gt;Could&lt;/em&gt; be.

coburn: I think it is &quot;deliberate&quot; because I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve ever seen a &quot;normal&quot; guy use it - wherein you speak of Yamie as a potential trap (I wouldn&#039;t care; Tamaki, on the other hand, and I would become enraged), I think that because things gendered do or do not fall nicely within one side of the binary - male versus female - and labeled taboo, then by necessity it will have to be something. Maybe animators are copying this off those twentieth century ballet postures, and if so, would they then too be carrying over similar genderisms? Ballet was copied for reasons X, Y and Z, thus Japanese animators hinted as the resonation between Western themes and themes that were desired in their own animation - there&#039;s the influence, I think. 

Atashi: This may be the penultimate moe factor. I think the ultimate one is when the girl is sitting and they have their legs bent 90 degrees outward and have their knees touching one another. That probably warrants its own visual study, too. That is strange, as you point out, how it seems normal in anime yet unearthly in reality. I guess that&#039;s anime for you.

vin-nii: I thought the &lt;em&gt;Kimikiss&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;Geass&lt;/em&gt; connection was kind of funny. Kind of.

Moya: I will.

melissa: I played clarinet for like, five minutes, and thought my cheeks were going to die; though I&#039;ve never really seen guitar playing done well in anime, all organic robot witches aside. 

Calawain/Zentari/13sugars: I wasn&#039;t thinking anything dirty, then again it could be subconscious...

Zan: Hmmm, it seems odd to me that people haven&#039;t noticed this. That&#039;s not a bad thing, it just seemed to blatant to me for quite a while. Though the &lt;em&gt;Geass&lt;/em&gt; picture is probably the most interesting...the characters in question not even being human, and that the one with the feminine finger position could be lightly taken as a male, perhaps a masochistic artifact or representation of Suzaku&#039;s GAR (or lack thereof?)

Kabitzin: I don&#039;t think some of these positions would be easier to draw than a &quot;regular&quot; hand - what about Alicia&#039;s? Then again, I have no idea how to draw. Situations involving males using this hand gesture seem pretty rare, so I can&#039;t say, in that respect, that it&#039;s  &quot;easier&quot; or for &quot;convenience&quot;; &quot;convenience&quot; for me was never a frugal thing more of a way to denote gender. 

Crusader: Thanks.

hyzen: Thanks.

IKnight: Mmhm, Turn 18. I didn&#039;t notice that, mostly because I wasn&#039;t really paying attention to that LogH screencap, per se, just Reinhard&#039;s fingers. Similarly, I was trying to find an Irako Seigen finger pose but turned up nothing but a few effeminate snickers of his. But concerning what you said, it is significant, both of those social artifacts they hold as if they present status through another conduit. That was a nice observation.

BigN: Haha, I know what you mean. The flailing arms thing annoys me as well. I even see guys running that way occasionally. 

BK: It &lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt; feminine. 

C.I.: Thanks.

Olivia: This posture does feel pretty unnatural. It&#039;s hard to keep it up (oddly I can&#039;t do it in my left hand at all...lack of interdependence?). I don&#039;t know if I&#039;d necessarily call it sexist...it&#039;s not quite demeaning, though you could make an argument though the lack of males performing this gesture - and when we did see males doing it, it was when they weren&#039;t in a position of dominance. Gendered, yes, sexist, perhaps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>psgels: <em>Could</em> be.</p>
<p>coburn: I think it is &#8220;deliberate&#8221; because I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve ever seen a &#8220;normal&#8221; guy use it &#8211; wherein you speak of Yamie as a potential trap (I wouldn&#8217;t care; Tamaki, on the other hand, and I would become enraged), I think that because things gendered do or do not fall nicely within one side of the binary &#8211; male versus female &#8211; and labeled taboo, then by necessity it will have to be something. Maybe animators are copying this off those twentieth century ballet postures, and if so, would they then too be carrying over similar genderisms? Ballet was copied for reasons X, Y and Z, thus Japanese animators hinted as the resonation between Western themes and themes that were desired in their own animation &#8211; there&#8217;s the influence, I think. </p>
<p>Atashi: This may be the penultimate moe factor. I think the ultimate one is when the girl is sitting and they have their legs bent 90 degrees outward and have their knees touching one another. That probably warrants its own visual study, too. That is strange, as you point out, how it seems normal in anime yet unearthly in reality. I guess that&#8217;s anime for you.</p>
<p>vin-nii: I thought the <em>Kimikiss</em> and <em>Geass</em> connection was kind of funny. Kind of.</p>
<p>Moya: I will.</p>
<p>melissa: I played clarinet for like, five minutes, and thought my cheeks were going to die; though I&#8217;ve never really seen guitar playing done well in anime, all organic robot witches aside. </p>
<p>Calawain/Zentari/13sugars: I wasn&#8217;t thinking anything dirty, then again it could be subconscious&#8230;</p>
<p>Zan: Hmmm, it seems odd to me that people haven&#8217;t noticed this. That&#8217;s not a bad thing, it just seemed to blatant to me for quite a while. Though the <em>Geass</em> picture is probably the most interesting&#8230;the characters in question not even being human, and that the one with the feminine finger position could be lightly taken as a male, perhaps a masochistic artifact or representation of Suzaku&#8217;s GAR (or lack thereof?)</p>
<p>Kabitzin: I don&#8217;t think some of these positions would be easier to draw than a &#8220;regular&#8221; hand &#8211; what about Alicia&#8217;s? Then again, I have no idea how to draw. Situations involving males using this hand gesture seem pretty rare, so I can&#8217;t say, in that respect, that it&#8217;s  &#8220;easier&#8221; or for &#8220;convenience&#8221;; &#8220;convenience&#8221; for me was never a frugal thing more of a way to denote gender. </p>
<p>Crusader: Thanks.</p>
<p>hyzen: Thanks.</p>
<p>IKnight: Mmhm, Turn 18. I didn&#8217;t notice that, mostly because I wasn&#8217;t really paying attention to that LogH screencap, per se, just Reinhard&#8217;s fingers. Similarly, I was trying to find an Irako Seigen finger pose but turned up nothing but a few effeminate snickers of his. But concerning what you said, it is significant, both of those social artifacts they hold as if they present status through another conduit. That was a nice observation.</p>
<p>BigN: Haha, I know what you mean. The flailing arms thing annoys me as well. I even see guys running that way occasionally. </p>
<p>BK: It <em>is</em> feminine. </p>
<p>C.I.: Thanks.</p>
<p>Olivia: This posture does feel pretty unnatural. It&#8217;s hard to keep it up (oddly I can&#8217;t do it in my left hand at all&#8230;lack of interdependence?). I don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;d necessarily call it sexist&#8230;it&#8217;s not quite demeaning, though you could make an argument though the lack of males performing this gesture &#8211; and when we did see males doing it, it was when they weren&#8217;t in a position of dominance. Gendered, yes, sexist, perhaps.</p>
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		<title>By: Olivia</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2008/08/21/lwc-61-visual-study-in-feminine-finger-positions/comment-page-1/#comment-262812</link>
		<dc:creator>Olivia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/?p=10925#comment-262812</guid>
		<description>yeah... what&#039;s funny is that the famous Barbie&#039;s, err, &quot;daughter&quot; Kelly also has that finger position. When I first saw it, I thought it was just a common finger position when relaxed. Man, was I wrong. It&#039;s actually very hard to adjust your finger like that for a long time, or doing just about anything else. The world is so freaken sexist - I want to see some men drawn doing that... stupid propriety</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yeah&#8230; what&#8217;s funny is that the famous Barbie&#8217;s, err, &#8220;daughter&#8221; Kelly also has that finger position. When I first saw it, I thought it was just a common finger position when relaxed. Man, was I wrong. It&#8217;s actually very hard to adjust your finger like that for a long time, or doing just about anything else. The world is so freaken sexist &#8211; I want to see some men drawn doing that&#8230; stupid propriety</p>
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