Lol Those acronyms are made up anyways… right?

@westrim
I know that the real ones at fault are the writers but writing these essays is just the thing to kill boredom it’s quite enjoyable after a while; at first I was like you ^.^

Suzaku: Pulled the tigger, wasn’t able to fight the Geass like his precious Euphy, didn’t refuse the mission on principle, didn’t figure out a way to fire the nuke off into the ocean as a warning against the Black Knights or something

Lulu: Geassed Mr. Suicidal to live thus causing many of these issues, wrote Suzaku’s threat off and didn’t take it seriously, told Kallen to have at him despite knowing about the Live On Geass

On Lulu, those last two, I would argue, make Lulu just as responsible. I mean, Lulu knows that Suzaku would do anything to stay alive due to the Live Geass, was told by Suzaku he had a friggin’ nuke, and despite all that ordered Kallen to create such a situation as to lead Suzaku to pull the trigger against his better judgement. His strategy abilities must have been set to Off this episode not only to send Rollo in for Nunally but to ignore the White Reaper’s nuke talk.

But darn it Suzaku! Learn from Lulu and try and THINK THING THROUGH!

Anyways, poor Kallen. Complete loyalty, awesome piloting, and snapping Lulu in line occasionally leads only to being Priority #3 -.-

Sorry Halycon and Cj, but you two are just fucking crazy. Blaming Suzaku even though HE WAS UNDER CONTROL OF THE GEASS (hence Lelouch’s fault) is beyond retarded.

Read Maipeisu’s reply as it nullifies any argument that Lelouch could be at fault for Suzaku’s actions.

Firstly, The Geass Command cannot force you to do something you’re incapable of doing. Suzaku was capable of vaporizing millions of people, hence he did so.
Secondly, the Geass Command was for Suzaku to survive, not to kill.
Thirdly, it was Suzaku’s own choice to go out to war, in the middle of a city, armed with a WMD.
Fourthly, Suzaku pulled the trigger, not Lelouch!

That whole Nuremburg Defense (as I’ve stated earlier) does not hold up because of the simple fact that his Geass Command did not force him to kill anyone, unlike Euphie’s Command. His Geass Command only forces him to save himself, it doesn’t make a choice of how he should accomplish that. That is up to Suzaku.

I’ve never seen such blind fanboys with the most stupid, illogical arguments ever made.

I’ve yet to see anyone point out a single flaw in my statement.

Your only rebuttals thus far have been “but..but… he was Geass’d!! The Geass told him to kill millions of his own people”.

To which I have replied (with facts) that no, his Geass commands him to Survive, not to kill.

At any rate, was it his Geass that forced Suzaku to take AIM at the government center in the direction of his own troops instead of Zero or the Ikaruga?

No, that was pure Suzaku baby.

For all “OMG GEASS MADE HIM DO IT” arguments, please read Maipeisu’s post as it is the most brilliantly constructed reply on this topic.

Lelouch
Nina
Suzaku
Kallen
Brittania
Black knights
Nana-chan

I’ve never seen such blind fanboys with the most stupid, illogical arguments ever made.

Suzaku was the guy who, in the end, pulled the trigger. But Lulu has had chances to stop Suzaku before the bomb was pulled… and didn’t, because he believed in his friendship with Suzaku as well as the latter’s decency. Unfortunately, Suzaku’s instability and the “live” Geass overrode those other factors, resulting in him detonating the FREIJA bomb practically in Nunnally’s face. However, Lulu was also STUPID enough to send Rolo-the-Unstable-Killer to rescue his sister, so obviously his judgement has been suffering for the past few episodes anyways.

But, at least Suzaku’s lived up to the Massacre Princess’ legacy – she only managed to kill a few thousand Elevens, and he topped that easy.

Ok it’s Suzaku’s fault for one simple reason you don’t go into battle with a weapon you say you’re not going to use, but he couldn’t leave it on the ship the ship you have to consider Nina which is why Suzaku took it to keep it away from Nina (that’s what I think it’s the only logical thing I can think of) But his mistake was not defusing it knowing that his geass to live on could’ve activated so you see it’s really Suzaku’s fault for being a retard and not taking into consideration the posible outcomes of battle like Lelouch, Lelouch only does something after analyzing every other posible choice unlike Suzaku who’s plot armor allows him to go into a gun fight with a tiny knife and come out alive, that’s Jesus powers to ya.

There is no posible way you can blame this on Lelouch I mean really how the hell was he suppose to know a year ago that Suzaku would hold a nuke and in his last moments fire it because of that command really????? Besides he considered Suzaku’s move a bluff (which it was but he didn’t know that there really was a Nuke).

Many of you have already said it but Suzaku is just an emo who can’t kill himself that’s all and all he wants is to leave this world to atone for his “sins” which is stupid because it doesn’t resolve anything. Yet another thing wrong with Suzaku is his idea that he can actually make a difference from withing please so what you’re going to save a thousand people after Britannia makes you kill Millions of others? Remember a whole year passed Suzaku running wild in the world in his inmorortal Lancelot kicking whoevers ass was crazy enough to fight Britania (we all know only Zero can do it)

So whoever of you who was defending Suzaku tell me how has he not earned one of these nicknames:
Drugzaku, Spinzaku, Moralfagzaku, Bombzaku, Masacrezaku, Emozaku, Idiotzaku, Fagzaku, If I’m missing one I’m sorry I’m tired I will post tommorrow if anyone posts.

Also this will be in everyone of my posts until it happens
DEATH TO ROLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
cuz I really hate him

To re-iterate, “He freaking filled out his army with them and uses the rest of them as a totally secure base of operations and manpower pool!”. Friend of lies that you are that you seek to make this mean he took one million people out of Zero uniforms and put them in black knight uniforms, he did exactly what I said he did, filled out his org structure and with the untold chaff that did not possess skills he desired founded a city he uses as his own private country where he is the God-King Zero.

There is no evidence to support your wild unsubstantiated theory. The 1 Million Japanese people are, for all intents and purposes, living free and independent lives on a nice artificial island off the coast of China until proven otherwise.

Indeed Suzaku’s re-invention of himself from thoughtless bully steeped in unearned pride into a selfless soldier was caused by his subconscious guilt at murdering his father. Suzaku’s morality is derived from the perspective his mistakes have earned him. They are the result of it, they are not the manifestation of it. With Euphies help he came to terms with himself, and happily remained who he was.

Uhhhhhhhh, Suzaku isn’t being “selfless”, he’s being “selfish”, his actions aren’t motivated by altruism towards others. His actions are motivated by his own desire to exercise himself of his own guilt. The heroism is a byproduct, not an end goal for Suzakul. Ultimately, it’s just another coping mechanism for killing his own father.

In effect, Suzaku is attempting to absolve himself through suicide. That is not courage, that is the very definition of cowardice. If he really wanted to become a “hero”, he would first do so by taking responsibility for murdering his father which he has yet to do. In fact, he did the very opposite by running towards his father’s enemy, Britannia, to lose himself.

In recognizing that the one who bore freya into battle must with the courage to use it possess the courage to not use it Suzaku said the words that indicated him the most worthy prospective candidate to shoulder its responsibility. When he accepted death rather than employ it to save his own life he lived those words and proved himself most worthy. Such convictions can not be tritely swept aside no matter how deeply you wish they could be, his soul is Great and Good.

This is where you are tragically mistaken. Suzaku has not only accepted death but embraced it wholeheartedly. He has been seeking it out ever since Season One.

Last Episode, Lulu Went Bad. Lulu at the start if episode 17 wasn’t Lulu at the end of it. This Lulu needs to be put down.

Went bad? What show have YOU been watching? Lelouch has “been bad” ever since he got his Geass. He’s only now becoming worse because of the constant betrayals by those he seems to trust/reach out to.

If anything, this Lelouch needs to cut loose and be true to his “Demon King” persona. Enough with the kid gloves, he needs to play hardball. That is the only way his revolution will succeed.

And caused a mislaunch. Or succeeded, and had to hot-wire it in a flurry of geass activity. Monday morning quarterbacking again.

Any attempt to actually render the WMD inoperable is certainly more preferable to keeping it active, then firing it on non-combatants.

By his hand are millions dead. Directly against his manifested will. By Lulu’s will are millions dead. That’s magical mindcontrol in the hands of a self-righteous teenager for you. If only CC hadn’t come along and let Lulu go on a shooting spree at Ashford in six months like he was probably going to.

By his hand? How again, do you rationalize a “LIVE” Geass, translating into killing tens of millions of people? Please explain that one to me.
Because again, if Suizaku has been seeking death since Season One and was even willing to allow Kallen to fry him, then even attempting to escape and failing to escape would’ve fulfilled his most earnest desire to die on the battlefield instead of killing his own troops.

Again, your Nuremburg Defense of “someone told me to do it” fails the test as Lelouch’s Geass Command is the very opposite of what Suzaku did. Live =/= Kill.

This is dishonest farce and lies. He couldn’t run without being cut down. He couldn’t eject without being picked off. He couldn’t surrender without being cut down. Nobody could stand up to Guren. One path remained, and when a path was required it was employed.

This is simply not true.
Firstly, Suzaku had back up in the form of TWO Knight of Rounds in the Area which could’ve been called in for assistance.
Secondly, Suzaku had already wanted to die, thinking his death would atone for his earlier murder of his father and possible betrayal (twice) of his so-called friend.

By Suzaku’s OWN ACTIONS, getting cut down would’ve been preferable to his subsequent action of murdering masses of Japanese and Britannians. Your logic simply fails to acknowledge this simple simple fact.

That one enamoured of Lulu can not see how evil and disgust the irresistible compulsion to personal survival is is not surprising.

I’ve made many post acknowledging Lelouch’s amoral behavior. It’s not being “enamoured” of him. It’s simply accepting his character as intended, as written by Sunrise for the show.

Lelouch is a far more interesting and controversial character as he is now than he would be if Sunrise made him into a pathetic weak ineffectual Suzaku clone.
For all of Suzaku’s claims of changing Britannia from within, he has become part of the problem, not the solution. This episode only further illustrates that Suzaku acts in lockstep with whatever orders he’s given by his Britannian Masters, no matter how morally ambiguous those orders may be.

In all circumstances, Suzaku must in direct contradiction of his beliefs place his own life paramount to all other concerns.

Self-preservation is a basic response of every animal. That cannot be disputed. If you wish to attempt to, please speak with your nearest anthropologist

Children screaming for help in a building engulfed in flames? Screw ‘em. Maniac gunning down the defenseless and him an unarmed bystander? Tough luck. Racial purists frame him for regicide in order to wipe away all internal progress his ethnicity have made in a hostile system and the only way to counter it is to man up and go “Dreyfus”? Screw that, he’s running.

Millions of people running to escape from a battlezone? Nuke ‘em! Because that’s much better than running away!

Suzaku Kururugi is convert to morality, he’s walking the walk. He’s freakn’ Saul of Tarsus and watching what happened after he killed his dad was his Road to Damascus.

If he was walking the walk, he never would’ve agreed to sortie with FLEIA attached to Lancelot. You don’t walk into a firefight with a loaded gun without any intentions of using it. He gambled that Lelouch would be intimidated by his bomhax and failed and now has to bear the additional burden of his carelessness.

He tried. He failed.

There was no indication that he struggled with his Geass Command in the same way Euphie did. In fact, he embraced it wholeheartedly and fired without a second’s pause. He did not “try”, he simply took the course of action that Nina had been suggesting without thinking of the consequences.

What’s even more absurd was that he fired in the direction of his OWN base. That’s just inexcusable.

There is no intent when ones actions were dictated by maliscious employment magical powers by a hostile party. This is the ‘witchcraft’ defense, somewhat older but not without successful precedent.

Funny, “Live” means “Kill” in your logic, right? Your argument, unfortunately, simply holds no water when presented against the facts of Lelouch’s actual Geass command.

@Haesslich

We may have our differences but I agree with a few of the things you posted.

Suzaku fired the bomb, even if Lulu was the one who gave him the “live” Geass.

Right on the money. Ultimate responsibility lies with he who pulls the trigger. Not he who gives the command to pull the trigger. Well played.

He could’ve run, but apparently didn’t think he could and went for the bomb.

My point exactly.

He could’ve refused to carry the nuke, or taken Guren Seitan into battle since the OS had been broken open enough to let Cecile add pretty pictures to the OS. He also could’ve ordered someone to kill him indirectly, if he was truly intent on suicide.

Also valid input. He walked out with a loaded WMD, if he was really morally opposed to killing, he could’ve sortied without it.

In the end, ten million people suffered for the ‘oops’ with the bomb. And, as far as the Elevens are concerned, Suzaku fired the bomb willingly on his own people – whether he ‘wanted’ to or not doesn’t matter; the only difference here is whether he goes emo over killing everyone in Tokyo or goes emo because he’s busy blaming Lulu for what he did.

Great insight. Especially the end bit.

@Maipeisu

Attempting neither to defend or condemn Bombzaku, allow me to point out that the ‘command’ geass appears to function by rearranging a person’s neural pathways, not by rewriting them entirely. Note the brain-through-the-iris animation sequences. Lulu’s geass cannot force a person to perform an action that is beyond their capability or conceptualization. To my knowledge, no such attempt has ever been made in the series, save for Lulu’s command to a dying Shirley, which, ruling out the potentially nullifying effects of the geass canceler, likely failed because it was an impossible instruction to fulfill. This implies that Suzuka was not stretching his imagination when he opted to deploy FLEIA as a last resort. To him, it was a possibility, and a viable one at that. I do not subscribe to the Power of Suggestion (courtesy of Ms. Batshit) argument, because Suzuka had a good long while to contemplate the detonation of the warhead and its consequences for the Tokyo Settlement’s denizens. The point here is that he considered it as a possible solution to his dilemma, weighing the lives of millions against the opportunity capture/punish/kill Zero in one fell swoop. That, more than anything else, vividly portrays Suzaku’s unstable mentality.

Incredible. Absolutely incredible viewpoint. I’ll be looking at your posts more closely from now on. You raise a valid point that the Geass doesn’t force you to do something you simply cannot do.

It’s ironic how no one brings up the point that Suzaku brought out a WMD in the middle of a fight that was bordering an active city. That alone should tell you what his character is. Sunrise has recently been flirting with the idea of Suzaku being as morally ambiguous as Lelouch, treading down that pathway slowly and I think this exemplifies it perfectly.

What I am really curious about here is how geass’ origins and the Black Knights’ battle for supremacy will plot-converge in the end. Lulu seems so obsessed with retrieving Nunnally that I cannot imagine how his efforts will ultimately position him to deal with Charles.

I think Nunnally’s removal from the CG world really frees Lelouch to act as viciously as he wants to. All his efforts to topple Britannia up til now have been hampered by Lelouch’s concern for Nunnally’s safety. With Nunnally out of the way we’re going to see a whole new Lelouch that might actually be on par with Charles and may even exceed Schneizel on the battlefield.

That’s what I’m looking forward to. How the “new” Lelouch will far against his final boss father. The only possible impediment to Lelouch embracing his darker nature may be Kallen as his emotional connection to her may serve as a lingering anchor keeping him from descending into despotic megalomania.