I like your take on mecha chivalry. Monty Python had it right.

And Mellowlink is indeed brilliant. It even reminded me of Berserk (which I’m pretty sure started a few years later) for some reason. I just really wish there were some less-blurry fansubs of it around, because I always thought it was really well animated..

@ Gideon: Some of us enjoy watching knights too much too. I suspect minefields, anti-mecha entrenchments, artillery bombardments &c are rather boring to watch.

Plus, you make a good point. Chivalry and the tactics/warior ethos associated with it tend to be depictured in a some what warped way, that is; only the pros (courage, honour and what not) are highlighted and not a word (or scene) is spend on the cons (repressing the ‘peasants’, and getting killed for it).

Ofcourse the mecha equivalent of the knightly charge is very impressive to watch. So I understand why animators choose the include the charge in their animated battles. I also don’t mind that this is the only part of a battle actually highlighted by shows like Code Geass (the top mecha show atm). However what I do find a bit unfair is the fact that they never give any airtime to their ‘peasants’ in the wars (be it infantry, logistics or any other kind of unit vital to a modern battle/war that does not ride into battle on steeds of steel or gundamium alloy). Code Geass is especially guilty of this knights-only policy. They even arrange their mecha formations into giant squares for momentum when charging. Forget about finding cover, entrenching or keeping some distance from each other to make it harder for artillery. That is ofcourse if there was any kind of artillery. The nearst thing are big (air)ships with giant cannons, which often also participate in the charge (and as such are also equipped with melee weapons. Ep 10 Code Geass). There are only knights, and writers (again especially those of Code Geass) are convinced their mecha should be knights. In episode 10 of that same show they actually had the Chinese mecha charge those of the Black Knights with a wedge formation. A explaination of why the Chinese did so, followed, but could not convince imo (it had something to do with flooding and securing higher ground).

For once I like to see those shiny mecha knights die under a hail of arrows, or collide with a wall of pikes, just so I’ll know the human race won’t lose her military prowess once when we finally do invent mecha. So bring on the minefields, anti-mecha entrenchments, artillery bombarments or any other relative cheap solution to turn those expensive warmachines into scrap metal. Production teams have to animate them first though. Unfortunately I think they enjoy drawing knights too much.

That’s why I never understood why the heck characters like Quatre Raberba Winner exist. Well actually I do, it’s to showcase how foolish they can be as you said. Well he eventually grew out of that whole mentality once war visited him close to home. Then suddenly it wasn’t cool anymore to be a nice guy and entire colonies had to go for making war happen.

That’s why I think it helps to look at characters like Suzaku or Allelujah Haptism to cite recent examples as a little more then what is presented on the surface and moreso on how other characters perceive them to see both sides of what their so-called chivalry entails. Take Allelujah for example. He tried to be the merciful nice guy who didn’t want to see anybody get hurt, and what did it get him? About 1,000 deaths on his hand when his survival instinct kicked in during a mission and total defeat at the hands of Soma. Though the way they seperated his raw combat and survival instinct from his more naive side via a dual-personality makes it more obvious to see. Suzaku is a little more difficult to analyze because up till now he’s gotten away with a lot of his outright war crimes in the name of “chivalry” and “protecting his people”.

Actually I pretty much agree, Chivalry is a noble ideal, but it’s also rife with hypocrisy because of the often higher social standing and protected status of those who practice. Sure it’s all well and fine for the average knight to practice it because they know they aren’t going to get in a lot of hot water if they should fail in combat, but like you say for the average peasant there is no ransom, only death and nobody will remember them whether they defended their lords to the death or just ran away like cowards because their names are not those of noble families. Legend of The Galactic Heroes touches on this sort of thing at times. Thousands of soldiers will die in the name of the Reich Empire and it’s Kaiser and what does it get them, a promotion for the admiral or general they served under. Whoopee……

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffroi_de_Charny
http://www.amazon.com/Knights-Book-Chivalry-Middle-Ages/dp/0812219090

If you know chivalry then you will know who Geoffroi de Charny was and if you are familiar with Bushido then you will know that most of it as we know today was based off Tsunetomo’s Hagakure. You could wiki a few of the names you know…its a quick resource and offers some insight into topics that you passed over in school or random readings, not the best academic resource in the world, but it is quick and efficient. You can’t talk about chivalry as it was unless you refer to the man who wrote the book on the damn concept.

War is anathema to chivalry. In order for chivalry to exist war must be ongoing and has to occur every so often lest the noble knights get out of practice. It is a philosophy that seeks to sanitize a barbaric adventure. Suffice to say the allure of making war palatable will remain, thus guys like Treize, an idiot though he may have been is admired for daring to dream. Like Charny, Treize found to his cost and that of many others that being nice in a most rude affair was a losing proposition there is a reason why the warrior culture of the nobility died out. The nobles were not special and the low born troops who were called upon to fight were more interested in surviving the ordeal than dying bravely. Blue blood was no proof against bullets or the lower classes. Clausewitz was right: Kind-hearted people might of course think there was some ingenious way to disarm or defeat the enemy without too much bloodshed, and might imagine this is the true goal of the art of war. Pleasant as it sounds, it is a fallacy that must be exposed: war is such a dangerous business that the mistakes which come from kindness are the very worst.

War is hell, you cannot refine it into anything else.

I’m sure you’ve tied it altogether in your head, but I can’t see most of the connections you are trying to make. I don’t know who these people are that you are mentioning and you haven’t really provided any context for how they fit into the whole Mecha and Chivalry comparison. In order to get your point across to the utmost you kind of have to show your work so to speak and I can’t see where you have. That’s what makes it confusing.

Though after reading it over like 5 or so times it’s finally slowly starting to all make sense as I piece together that missing work and draw the connections.

Oh and looking at the post above, what are your opinions on Treize Khrushenada from Gundam Wing. He tried to bring that whole Chivalry bit back but found it unwelcome in a world that was moving towards technology and A.I weapons that would save lives that were being needlessly wasted in combat. It made him one of the few characters in that show that I think had any real depth. His ideals seemed so noble and yet at the same time incredibly flawed in how he tried to force them on the world by leading a revolution and then not really knowing what to do afterward other then hole up in a castle and defend said ideals to the death by committing suicide near the end of the series when realizing that so many people had ultimately died in his name and the name of chivalry, but according to him not in vain. I’m not sure how right he is about that last part.

…if you ignore the protagonists.

UV operators vs. neo “The Game of Kings” types. Much cran elan. Every battle a Crecy.