In the world ofToshokan Sensou, foliage stops bullets.
I have a rule, called “Ridiculous Leap of Logic Rule” (RiReRoRu for convenience’s sake), that I use to judge TV shows and movies. If, in the course of watching a TV show or movie, I’m forced to make a leap of logic so great that it’d start at one end of the Great Wall of China and end up at the other, the show has broken the rule and becomes unwatchable. Alternately: ‘One small step for Sunrise, one giant leap for mankind’ (the part of it that likes consistent logic in their shows anyway).
The rules of logic that is applied varies between shows. Each world setting has its own internal set of rules that, for the sake of suspension of disbelief, should never be broken. For example, I can accept that Simon not only broke through the heavens, but also the space-time continuum, because he did not break the rules of the setting - which is a world where giant robots literally powered by awesomeness do awesome things, and what’s more awesome than destroying space-time continuum (i.e. anything goes if it’s awesome)? However, if Suzaku did it in Code Geass, no amount of giant robots would help him, because within the bounds of the logic of the world of Code Geass, breaking through the heavens would require a leap of logic so great that when I land my femurs shatter into a million pieces.
The existence of the giant robots that gets increasingly more gignormous (yes I know that is not a word) helped raise the bar and expand the limits of the rules as Gurren Lagann went on. Bending and evolving the rules are acceptable in two, and only two, circumstances -
1) it is done for laughs in slapstick comedies, e.g. someone gets mauled by a bear and can do a triple somersault for three 10’s two scenes later; or
2) it is done for AWESOME in action, e.g. everything John McClane does in Die Hard
- because, within the scope of those respective universes (the Slapstickmedyverse and the Actionheroverse), the bending of the rules make things better instead of worse.
Now hopefully you understand what the RiReRoRu is. Let me go and illustrate how Toshokan Sensou failed the test within the first three episodes.
First, let me define the rules of logic that the show should abide by. For all intents and purposes, the universe of Toshokan Sensou is the same as this one that we real people reside in. No, not the Internet, the other real world. An anime should be judged by the same rules of logic as this world, as long as it can be done convincingly in live action without spending, on special effects, enough money to fund a small civil war on a Pacific island state, and Toshokan Sensou falls convincingly into this category. It should adhere to the same kind of physics, common sense, and general expectations that we have in this world. A well trained army should act like a well trained army. A war should be like a war. Clearly intelligent people should act like intelligent people.
Leaving aside the ridiculous leap of logic that it took me to overcome the very setting of this series (the Parliament passes a law to censor the media by giving one part of the executive power to use lethal force, then passes another law to counteract the first law, not by repealing it, but by arming another part of the executive so that it may wage war on the part that is doing the censoring - see what democracy gets us?), Toshokan Sensou went off to a good start. Episode one was usual P.I.G. quality - great presentation, a unique visual style that’s a feast for the eyes, the voice acting was excellent and great songs for the OP and ED topped things off.
Episode two was fine for the first half, but when the Media Improvement Agency showed up, things went to hell. 7 people show up at the library, 4 went up to the curator’s office, 1 was left on the roof and… where did the three who went down first go? Shouldn’t they be waiting at the bottom for their important books and for the last member of their squad to get down? In fact, shouldn’t the books be going down with the second or third member, not the last, so that they are secure? If they’re so important that Ikuhara would risk certain death to go grab it and run away with it, you’d think the MIA would care enough (and be smart enough) to ensure that they don’t risk being recaptured. You know, like have people stand guard at the bottom of the rope so that they can catch it when it was thrown down, instead of buggering off to who knows where. Maybe they went for a smoking break, grab a cup of coffee… it’s hard work, being retarded.
To make things worse, in the process of grabbing the books, they went out of their way to mess up the chairs, used a bush that wouldn’t stop a single bullet as cover, and six of them somehow managed to be fell by 3 bullets.
Then there was episode 3, and I will only raise one point for it, a quote from the episode, because if I listed all the examples I found I would be here until One Piece ends:
“Try not to hit them. If there’s any casualty, the situation will become worse. If the enemy is provoked, our team on the ground will get the hit. We don’t have to be accurate, giving them pressure is good enough.” (Ocha! subs)
It’s a fucking WAR for fuck’s sake. Hey Crusader, how would you feel if your CO told your snipers not to hit the enemy, because getting hurt will piss them off?
Crusader: Well I am sure some wise guy is going to salute the CO in the field… in full view of the MIA. Me? I would do nothing you would hear about…
Oh, and I lied about that “one thing” thing in episode 3. Here’s another. “Isn’t there one more container?” “That is for them, those are books and magazines which we already have back-ups.” (Ocha! subs)
What kind of idiots do they think the MIA is? That they would send in all those troops to seize a stack of books that are meaningless to them? “We can’t let them go back empty handed”? “It’s give and take”? “Allies of justice”? MY ASS. It’s mocking them. “Har har we flew off with allllll the important books, suck it losers! Oh wait, have these ones, the ones that we already have copies of, and as such are meaningless in your hands! HAR HAR! LOSERS!”
I don’t know what Production I.G.’s writers and director were smoking when they wrote that episode, but with it Toshokan Sensou completely broke my “Ridiculous Leap of Logic Rule” and became unwatchable. I’ve read that it becomes worse, where in episode 6 Ikuhara, while being pursued by MIA forces in the dark, opens her cellphone with its brightly lit screen in order to contact Doujou. That’s fine, Ikuhara’s been shown to be a moron from the start, but Shibasaki watched her do it and didn’t try to stop her? The supposedly intelligent and talented Shibasaki? Is stupidity contagious, and did Shibasaki catch it from Ikuhara? Did the production staff of Toshokan Sensou catch it as well, or did they allow shit like this to happen because they thought we would catch it?
Production I.G., I don’t care if Toshokan Sensou sold 720,000 copies, or if you’ve got good animation, great music, and good characters; or that it is meant to be a love comedy, or the Holy Grail, or whatever. Those are not reasons to treat us like idiots. You want this to be a love comedy? Strip away your supposedly important world setting, because with that level of care and detail, you’ve shown us that you don’t give a shit about it at all. The clear lack of thought going into these scenes is made more infuriating by the fact that they paid enough attention to use real weapons. If they did that much for the weapons, why couldn’t they do a little more for the story? At this point in time, a quote from my grade 7 maths teacher sums up my answer for that question nicely: “Who knows? Who cares? You don’t, why should I?”
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Comments (35)
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[49] Presentation: The Problem With Reading « “lelangiric” added these pithy words on Oct 03 08 at 4:54 pmLEAVE TOSHOKAN SENSOU ALONE!! *bawls*
Toshokan Sensou is just following the “Bad Guys in Badly Coloured Uniforms Finish Last” rule - the MIA were certainly incompetent and probably deserved the “in your face” gesture left by the Library Forces. And it was Komaki “Mr Laughs In The Background” who was with Kasahara when her cellphone gave them away, not Shibasaki (like you hinted, she’s way too smart to have that happen)
God, does ToshoSensou deserve this much flack for it’s supposed logic flaws? It’s like everyone either watches it for Doujou X Iku OR to pick apart how horribly ‘retarded the premise and in world logic’ is -_-” It must be Production I.G.’s reputation and the novel’s popularity that’s causing high expectations for what the show serves, while every other show gets left of the hook easier this season.
issa-sa added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 4:51 amI just hope the upcoming Chocolate Underground isn’t quite as ridiculous as Toshokan Sensou. Sure, I could endure the series and it’s weird premise for the first 5 eps, but after that, the show became quite unbearable.
justam added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 5:47 amI don’t see the conflict between the MIA and the LC as an open war. It’s more like a controlled skirmish. Remember, they are allowed the use of weapons only in certain areas and they are absolutely prohibited to fire in residential areas.
Leaving the container to the MIA was for propaganda purposes. So that the MIA could boast that they seized at least half of the unproper material, and the operation wouldn’t seem a complete failure.
It is obvious that this show is not written by a military freak like you. The war is just a means to develop the relationships between the main characters. I am still enjoying the show. I bought even more ridicolous settings.
When in front of the press, you should act like a gentlemen. I’m sure that is the common protocol. Even when you are mocking the enemy…
Even a cold war is a war… So absolutely, it’s possible to have a gentlemen war where people are not killed, especially when they are all still Japanese…
So it’s not really breaking your rule…
Tueac added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 7:19 amI think the purpose of this series was to show a different kind of war, more rooted in diplomacy and which is more than just “slaughter as many of the enemy as possible”. If you’re indeed expecting a classical war, you’ll indeed end up disappointed.
Not to say that Toshokan Sensou is perfect, though. My problem with the series is that the plot seems to be going nowhere for such a short series.
(ps: fix your spamfilter!!!)
psgels added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 8:50 amAw Luppy not you too ;___;
Your reasons for disliking the show is understandable, same with other people who have suspension of disbelief issues with Toshokan Sensou as well. You and Aroduc are in the same boat on this one, and having read both your posts has enlightened me on the main reason why people would be turned off by this show.
I don’t really think Production I.G. intended to make a fool out of people with the lack of thought they gave to those scenes (Does looking past those flaws make me stupid then?). Perhaps they want to tell the cynical audience “That’s not where you’re supposed to look”, get past the flaws and focus on the allegorical truths amidst all this silliness. But then again, each of us have different tolerance for these kinds of illogical stuff, especially for an anime with a realistic setting such as this one, hence the Great Divide.
Even if you hate the anime now Luppy, I’d still recommend you to read the novels (I’m hoping they’ll get translated to English or Chinese), if only for the reason that there’s not much details provided in the novel regarding those fight scenes(?) that you’re free to imagine the scenes the way you want.
I’ll be really sad if you get to hate the novel too TT___TT
usagijen added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 9:18 amI dont see anything wrong so far with the setting.
I’ll tackle episode 6 since it is the most fresh in my mind. I dont know if you have watched this, but firstly, when Kasahara used her cellphone, it was under orders from Lt. Komaki and NOT Shibasaki. She’s no way in the picture here, mate.
It has been mentioned in the series that the Library Corps are fewer in number when compared to the Media Enhancement Troops. In episode 6 there are only 4 people - Kasahara, Komaki and 2 others who are trying to retrieve an important book. Komaki orders Kasahara to contact the base - this is because, there are only two of them left and if the base wasnt contacted for backup, no doubt the book would have been lost. The episode makes complete sense when Komaki orders Kasahara to contact the base - they were hiding under the pipes, and it was a necessary risk, which in the end, pays off.
Back to episode 3, I dont follow Ocha’s subs, so I cant say anything there. I know for a fact that the Library Corps, so far, are shown to have a stronger sense of discipline and moral responsibility. If the CO has said, I dont want to hurt the enemy because our ground troops may face a bitter retaliation, I see nothing wrong with it. To put it in a different way, if what the CO says is true, then the chances of the Media Enchancement Troops blasting past the ground troops and gaining entry in the building seems like the next step. In order to avoid this situation, if it means, pressuring the enemy but not actually harming them unless absolutely essential makes sense. A quick screening of episode 3 showed me two instances where they hit fairly close to the enemy in order to protect their ground troops and helicopter take off.
I dont think, despite the name of the series, it is a “war” war between the two factions. In the episode where Inamine is kidnapped, it is made obvious that more often than the Media Enhancement Troops, it is the independant supporters of the group that create trouble than necessary.
I could be wrong here but I think in the Menclave sub, Gendou states that the Media Enhancement Troops cant go back empty handed either. They have the backups for the books they are abandoning, but to me it seems more like a hand extended towards a possible reconciliation. I dont see it as an insult, if after all that, the Media Troops did indeed return empty handed, than yes, I would consider that more damaging. Plus, I doubt MET here would know if there were copies being made or not. What they dont know cant hurt them. Also, it is not actually stated that the copies were made to make the books available to the public. The Library has its own Acts and Regulations to follow; so I guess the copies were made so that the Library can add those books to their database in a more legal, peaceful way at a later stage. Atleast, thats how I interpret the situation.
Not sure if I’m making sense here or not.. ^^;;
VSky added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 9:25 amI don’t sweat the details, even if they are glaringly obvious; I’m to busy drooling over how nice the art looks ^_^>
Randor added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 9:45 am“Ridiculous Leap of Logic Rule” hahaha I love that, I also have this issue with shows. For example the Japanese have been completely oppressed in Code Geass and they were renamed and they had their rights taken away, etcetc…oh but every person in the world including the emperor of Britannia is speaking Japanese. Yeahyeah but without angering the Code Geass fans I do plan on watching it when it comes out in NA since it gets such good reviews O.O
The problems with Toshokan Sensou didn’t bother me as much though I never really thought about a bush stopping bullets until you pointed it out haha. However I kind of like the show so far although the whole librarians with guns is a bit strange to me.
cranberry added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 11:29 amI dont think the bush is meant to stop bullets ^^;; More like camouflage so the enemy cant see his green suit blend in with the bush…just like how a chameleon does. Makes it difficult for a predator to separate prey from surroundings…
Gaahhhh!! I’m getting too much into detail here….
That guy *is* obvious there. Whatever, I’ll pass him off as one idiot caught in the heat of the moment…sorta…
VSky added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 12:44 pmIf the world of Toshokan Sensou actually followed logic, the government there wouldn’t allow people to fight and die over books.
turtly added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 2:37 pmSeemingly like a lot of fans of this show, I’m more concerned with the relationships between the characters than the conflict between the library and the MIA and I think the strong point of the series is the characters. My issue with Toshokan Sensou (only the anime, haven’t read the books) is that it focuses far too much on the conflict which to me is very flimsy. For every minute of character interaction there seems to be 10 minutes of ‘action’ which always ends with the flower-child library outsmarting the dark and sinister ministry. I’d be fine with this if it didn’t feel like the show was trying to make some kind of deep cultural point, instead I’m left with the feeling that it was written by someone who’s only just found out about freedom of speech and wants to shoehorn it in.
That being said I will happily see this through to the end because I like the characters, I just wish there could be a better setting for them.
Marmosette added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 4:54 pmLOLOL!! XD
This was sooo funny. This probably was the first blog post that i’ve read from the start to end completely.
What kind of idiots do they think the MIA is? That they would send in all those troops to seize a stack of books that are meaningless to them? “We can’t let them go back empty handed”? “It’s give and take”? “Allies of justice”? MY ASS. It’s mocking them.
I know the name suggests “war” but there are different levels of warfare. Both organisations have to engage the other side due to ideological differences and at the same time convince the general public that what they are doing is the right thing. Use of overwhelming force probably will make the situation worse then what it already is… In short, it’s politics. I view the container issue in the same light, giving the other side a reason (however invalid) to retreat gracefully. A cornered enemy is a dangerous one. Just my 2cents ^^
Neutrinos added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 5:54 pm@cranberry
Code Geass with everyone speaking Japanese is more a convenience for the audience than the kind of leaps of logic that are being talked about in this topic. Since if they didn’t do that it would require a huge amount of voice actors to pull it off since they would need people who could speak fluent english and chinese and the various other languages in the series. Not to mention if that is a huge leap of logic then nearly all sci-fi, mecha, and most fantasy animes would be totally unwatchable since they would easily require leaps of logic that would take you to the other side of the planet crushing you into a blood pulp.
As for Toshokan Sensou I agree it is very odd and I don’t like the series but, I can see why people watch it as it is a matter of suspension of disbelief. I mean if people can suspend their disbelief to a setting where the laws of physics are being giga drill breakered into dust I can see why some people would be willing to suspend their disbelief enough to accept the insanity of the government and setting in Toshokan Sensou.
glarius added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 6:40 pmtheir war is more of a skirmish, they are trying to avoid to escalate it… otherwise it would blow up into a full civil war…
EvilDevil added these pithy words on Jun 05 08 at 8:49 pm“What kind of idiots do they think the MIA is? That they would send in all those troops to seize a stack of books that are meaningless to them? “We can’t let them go back empty handed”? “It’s give and take”?”
you seem to forget something. lets take the american civil war, during that time both side hated the idea of using guerrila warfare and tried to fight honorable (at least among generals and commanders). however, as the south started to loose the top brass felt the pressure to use dirtier tactics and brutal guerrila fights to demoralise the north… they are trying to avoid winning too much, otherwise it could escalate the situation. if they win it would be a great cost and if they loose… well, you get the picture, i think they are trying or at hoping for a more peaceful resolution from both sides. and for the MIA… most top rank leaders are too worried about results and looking good rather than care about real results…
I have to admit.. the first couple of episode of Toshokan Sensou, I watched it for Kasahara and Dojo because I’m a patsy for those kinds of thing. But I became interested in the concept.
Generally this RiReRoRu can only be applied when full oppression applies, not when only one part of an entire society is. A person can say that it’s not a real war because it’s about censorship. When I thought about it, it doesn’t actually makes sense, right? But I think the novel was written at the time when the Internet is not as widely used as before - I certainly remember the days in the late 90s where the internet was not an accpetable form of research material. So their idea of censorship was limited to what they had at the time - books. In this alternate future, different forms of medium were censored just as much as Geass’ alternate future’s turning point was when the Celts were not defeated by the Romans. So for me, the suspension of disbelief still applies.
I think their concept of their war in TS is that everything can be resolved through diplomatic and administrative means and casualties of any sort would only be a the undesired by-product of conflict. I don’t think any rational human would go into armed conflict looking at the enemy as though they had equivalent points when hit. It’s not as though the Library Corps are some underground organization. That and the Media Enchancement Agency are both recognized, legitimate organizations so their conflict involves agreements and treaties… pretty much how politics work nowadays.
biankita added these pithy words on Jun 06 08 at 1:04 ami can understand the leave-the-last-container stuff, but really, they should put more thoughts to the things that this blog mentioned
indr0008 added these pithy words on Jun 06 08 at 7:26 amYou’re right.
I should disregard your hate-filled rhetortic.
Take your meds lupus.
DrmChsr0 added these pithy words on Jun 06 08 at 8:28 amSome of the commenters had good points- and I think while you said Library War takes place in “our world” that’s partly not true- it’s “Japan’s world” so they do have some slightly different cultural ideas about what war is and how you fight it. Like in Death Note most of the suspense is mind games and they make decisions that might seem strange, but are made because they care so much about “keeping up their image” or presenting themselves to others based on things that are important in Japan but not really other places. So in Library War it probably makes sense that it’s actually important to “make a show” of the fights for the public. And both sides know this. So while they’re fighting, there are a lot more rules and it sort of looks more coordinated b/w the 2 sides- like the Library “shows” they are leaving something for the MIA, and the MIA “shows” they are following the laws.
But, I agree that some of the tactical plans/details seem kind of dumb…but then large military forces are kind of bureaucracies (sp?) so no high expectations there…
Susie Q added these pithy words on Jun 06 08 at 1:42 pmRegarding the whole issue of parliament passing the both the MEA and LLA laws, what most people here seem to be forgetting is that the Diet, as in all parliaments, is not under the total control of the government - it would have a fair number of Opposition MPs. The likeliest senario is that the Japanese Govt passed the MEA, and the Opposition lawmakers brought forth the LLA, and received the support of Government backbenchers, resulting in enough votes for the LLA to be passed. Similar circumstances have happened before.
Regarding the guy using the foliage as cover: if using foliage as cover is stupid, then why was the jungle foliage of Vietnam so good at stopping 5.56mm NATO rounds used by the M16? ;D The primary purpose of foliage is as concealment; you use it to break up your outline. And while foliage won’t stop modern 7.62mm rounds, it can slow down 5.56mm rifle rounds… and the Library Task Force are using 9mm Stery TMP submachineguns. In his situation, he’s making the best use of a bad situation. There’s no hard cover, so he’s using foliage because it’s his best option, and note that the MCF boys are wearing military-grade body armor; even if he gets hit with a 9mm round, so long as it’s not in the head, it ain’t gonna kill him.
As for Genda’s orders for the snipers to supress the enemy snipers instead of killing them, it’s simple. The Library Task Force is in a bad situation. They can hold their own, but they’re outnumbered. Escalate the situation into a full-on open war with the MCF and the MCF will steamroller them with more guns, more troops, more ammo - and let’s not forget that while the LTF is funded by the prefectural governments, the MCF is funded by the federal government, which means they have more recruits and more cash for more gear. Why else are the LTF using the cheaper Steyr TMP compared to the MP5s used by the MCF?
I’ve gotta run to work, so I’ll continue this later…
Wild Goose added these pithy words on Jun 10 08 at 6:34 pmFirst, foliage can be used as simple cover to just make sure the enemy doesn’t know exactly where you are when he’s firing. Are you going to say the same thing about the soldiers in Band of brothers that hid behind bushes on opposite sides of a field? Or the random armed persons that hide behind bars, tables and other wooden objects when bullets should be able to penetrate them.
Second, Having the bag stay up on the roof until the last person went down is a logical thing since if they get ambushed on the ground they would want the last person to be able to escape with the bag and if someone came on the roof he could throw it down and the others could grab it and flee. I have to admit though that the fact that there was no one on the ground to grab it was stupid.
Third, the container containing the copied books for the MIA was a good idea since it was not so that they could celebrate it as a smashing success but so they could save face by telling the media that they captured one of the three containers that the library defence force was trying to escape with.
Fourth, the snipers meant that if they were to shoot the soldiers directly they would see that their position was compromised and would move their trucks closer, fire on the snipers, fight more agressively or call for heavy reinforcements. but why didn’t you ask why they all for some reason use sub-machine guns instead of automatic rifles even though they practice with the latter and why they don’t seem to have any explosives such as grenades or rocket launcher or at least didn’t use them against those flimsy cars.
Fifth, they used the cell-phone because they had no other choice. And they were discovered because of it.
Just a tidbit, the SMGs the LDF forces used were Minebea PM-9s, based on the IWI Mini-Uzi. They’re being replaced as we speak, with MP5s as the sole candidate.
Ominae added these pithy words on Jul 10 08 at 2:33 pm