THAT Animeblog

At least he is not crying in defeat…

As per a few demands by the pro-Gundam 00 camp I guess it is time I explained what they call my irrational hate for the series and my lack of being fair and balanced. They bothered to read so I must respond. There are things I like about the series and more that I do not. It would be a more simple matter if the UN guys sucked as hard as those CB terrorists, but I still like Sergei, Katie, Patrick, Ali, Soma, and Graham. They are why I watch this series and every time they take a back seat to Feldt crying or a Moreno eulogy I am filled with rage and honestly as a soldier I am supposed to have an abundance of aggression, its just that my job gives me direction as to where to aim it. So is there legitimacy for the Gundam 00 hate? I say that there are plenty of reasons…

Political Aspects

Bow to your new leader. (As the ranking of evil hegemons go I find my self wishing Mineva Lao Zabi would kick his ass and take over. Sieg Zeon.)

So when this series started there was a lot of hubbub about zero sum games, back room deals, regional power plays, and what amounted to a Cold War without nukes. To be sure CB spent one episode attack the causes of war but that was about it, they also spent a few episodes beating up the guys who called Ceylon their home. However all this didn’t really come into play unless we buy into the idea that blood diamonds, and illegal drug trafficking has all ceased to be a problem, it was solved by a few bombs. The political part of the series has pretty much died since Corner has more clout as a UN diplomat than their 21st century counterparts. I still wonder how Corner has monopolized political power when prior to the Union, AEU, and HRL played their own games without a need to consult the UN where Corner’s power lies. I find it rather hard to swallow that the UN becomes a viable means of Corner hegemony when the Big Three were able to do whatever they wanted prior to allying under the name of UN. I don’t think that they have explained how Corner was able to monopolize power, though they can credibly argue trough financial power given the amount of gold Corner seems to possess. However if Corner is the king of a financial empire then he does fit the mold of the typical African President for Life as he certainly has been brown bagging a lot of lunches to get his golden mobile armor.

For me all soldiers are equal (I have a major bias in favor of Soldiers)

Now that’s the spirit, never give up. Never give in.

I liked Lockon until he went all vengeful rather than planning a comprehensive revenge. I had high hopes initially as he was billeted as a sniper but eventually got downgraded to marksman and even then a fourth rate one. A sniper these days means a guy who has a spotter, inserts himself into the battlefield, spends time staking it out, and spends days moving a few inches in hostile territory while defecating in his ghillie suit. A sniper has to be methodical and calculating to make his shots, but Lockon’s little charge against Ali was not how a sniper would have approached the situation. Nevertheless he can brag about shooting long distance, but in the end he charged out beam saber in hand to meet his opponent when he first caught sight of him.

You know being an idiot ain’t all that bad, the world is simpler, and your needs more reasonable. At least the guy is happy, after all has Sumeragi’s intelligence netted her happiness?

I like the UN blokes and I do like Patrick more than most people. Patrick strikes me as that eager young ensign who signed up during peacetime to play with cool toys. Like any rookie show comes out of basic he is self assured and is eager to prove himself. He could have been more than that but alas they declined to show how war was terrible from the eyes of an eager young ensign who slowly becomes jaded by the horror of it. Instead we get the long lost relative of Team Rocket who gets to blast off time and time again. I really like the bloke because his motivation for living was infinitely more human and average than fighting for ideology. All Patrick wanted from life was to pilot a mobile suit and spend his days with Katie until his 20 years were up or they had to forcibly retire him after 30 years in service. For Patrick the great struggle in life was already won he knew what he wanted and he goes for it. Patrick does not ask the stupid questions like where God is or what is the purpose of Gundam? Sure most of his prowess comes from luck, but I have found that being lucky in war is at times better than being skilled, and Patrick was lucky.

Mien Oberst Kaite is still the smartest woman in all of Gundam 00.

Sure Patrick is an idiot, but he is not fucking things up for the rest of his comrades and at least he has the common courtesy to praise himself mostly in the confines of his own cockpit. I think Patrick was capable of learning though it seems that he can only learn if his teacher is his beloved Katie. For a time Patrick did kick arse and I would have hoped that the streak would have lasted, but some one has to provide comic relief it might as well be the guy who can survive just about anything.
Ali on the other hand is deliciously evil and is completely honest about why he is fighting. It is for no cause, he just wants to die from the last bullet in the last war. He is the guy who form some unknown reason could no longer adjust to peace. War is an adventure, often a tragic one, but an adventure nonetheless. After all in war you get to go to strange places and meet new people, though you might have to kill them. Ali was the only one who consistently lived up to the role of villain more than any one else. He killed Kinue for teh lulz and then murdered Lagna. Ali keeps things interesting in ways no other character can as the reigning leader of the Gundam 00 leaderboard Ali is epitome of a fighter without a cause. Sure we can slight him for using Setsuna as a child fighter, but we still do not know the circumstances of Kurdistan’s fall. For all we know Ali could have been the only guy willing to fight for God, emir, and country (do this Sunrise and I will never mention Ms. Wang again). He had already lost his war and yet he still endures trying to find a place to die, but too proud to kill himself because suicide is not acceptable even in Islam. Unfortunately some how Corner gets a mobile armor and Ali has to warm the bench until his return.

See even the Wild Bear was happy and proud to see Patrick survive. That’s one letter home to a grieving mother that he won’t have to write.

I like Sergei, Katie, Soma, Aker, Ali, and Patrick because they are just there trying to do their jobs. They are not so arrogant as to believe that they know what is best for the world and go about trying to use violence to make people conform to their ideal world on their own accord. To be sure they have faults Sergei is at times a bit too cautious, Katie needs to let her hair down, Soma needs to kill something, Patrick needs to learn to be as cool headed as Katie, Ali needs to kick Setsuna in the teeth, and Graham needs to show up for work. Nonetheless they are to me normal (okay maybe not Ali) soldiers going about their business trying to earn a living. To me just trying to get by in life is about as normal as you can get and for me it engenders a lot more sympathy on my part. As soldiers I feel that I share the fate of having one’s country provide me with food, equipment, and pay – much of it poor, late, and inadequate – and declares me the defender even as the society I am told to defend looks down on me.

Happy Katie is fine too.

Contrast this to the CB scum. They fight for ideology alone, and instead of trying to change the world in non-violent ways opt for force instead. They seek to enforce their will on the rest of the world who never asked them to kill for the sake of peace. They want to change the world because they think that they know better, and this, to me, is arrogant and unappealing. While the UN blokes try to do their jobs properly, the CB guys can’t even be good terrorists. A few bombs here and there will not solve anything, and honestly the world will always be imperfect because humans can never fully agree on anything. Yet I am supposed to cheer for these assholes even if I disagree with their goal and their methods? Fuck that I won’t pretend to like them because I don’t. I don’t think any one is under some obligation to like these fuckers. Just like how some people can have the opinion that Sumeragi is likable does not mean that I have to over look her tactical ineptitude and just stare at the assets.

War on War

Yep both Katie and Sergei have read Sumeragi’s book…

I think that war was a the casus belli then it stands to reason that there should be some well reasoned arguments against war, and that would imply that Sunrise has to present us with what war is supposed to be. However we get instead a watered downed version of the current situation in the Middle East that while we know it to be bad in the 2300s it is overly simplified and really just smacks of soap box preaching about how the Sunni and Shia just need to hug to get along. The whole Azadistan poverty thing and internal conflict has not been elaborated on in full and as it stands remains a joke. Sure their oil wealth is gone, but they now have an energy crisis? I am sure there were plenty of those oil fueled power plants that the Big Three would have been eager to sell, and if they didn’t I am sure that the energy conglomerates would have been eager to cut their losses and would have sold off their old equipment. One cannot ignore how Mariana is living in a pimped out palace with servants and clean clothes when her people live in abject poverty, and not laugh a bit inside.

TURKEY TROTS TO WATER GG FROM CINCPAC ACTION COM THIRD FLEET INFO COMINCH CTF SEVENTY-SEVEN X WHERE IS RPT WHERE IS UNION ACE GRAHAM ACRE RR THE WORLD WONDERS (kudos if you know the original line)

We have not heard a single new development on the war in Ceylon so clearly that war too has been settled with a few bombs and swords. That or the conflict is no longer of serious concern. While the Big Three were engaged in Cold War it was at least preferable to open warfare and to be honest three massive armies eying each other warily is better than a forest of terrorist snakes. A little saber rattling is better than open war with cluster bombs being dropped in every village. A standing army under civilian leadership has limitations on what it can and cannot to, the rules are always in effect in regards to friendly civilians and where ever possible are extended to belligerent civilians as well. The rules are not always followed but you have to admit the at Western Front in WWII was not the unmitigated wholesale slaughter of the Eastern Front or the plentiful massacres on the Japanese Army fronts in East Asia.

Even if politicians are scum they are at least mindful of having to get elected every so often and place limitations on their military commanders on what they can and cannot do. Like how Johnson imposed limitations on Westmoreland, and how the first Gulf War was ended by Bush Sr. despite some misgivings of military commanders who wanted a drive on Baghdad. Terrorists on the other hand are not obligated to care about those people who end up in the crossfire as they have no electorate or civilian authority to answer to.

Yes, because screaming their names from the safety of your vehicle of escape shows how much you really care.

A successful terrorist group often uses tactics that are beyond the pale and goes much further than a random suicide bombing. Hostage taking, economic sabotage, executions, bribery, extortion, and drug trafficking are all means in which such groups use to further their agenda. They have to deal with extralegal means to get their weapons and that means a trip to the local arms merchant who just wants money and will not give it away for free. Sure you can get weapons from a power that wants you as a destabilizing influence in what ever country your activities focus on. By becoming a client of a belligerent power you as a terrorist have to please your arms dealer from time to time. You will always beg for more weapons and ammo, but you will never get it until you are firmly under the thumb of those who give you the most funding and guns. Or at least convince them that you are under their thumb and need their support to rule. The PLO did not come to power by being a bunch of nice blokes to their Israeli neighbors, nor did the FLN refrain from brutalizing those they perceived as enemies in their quest to overthrow the French in Algeria. Terrorism means following the policy that your goal is indeed worthy and that the means in which you use to achieve that goal are irrelevant.

I’ll give him this much he is eloquent in defining his cowardice.

Yet for some reason the blokes at CB are never forced to resort to such measures. As terrorists go they suffer few if any of the morally questionable things that they might have to do to further their cause. Had they been a grassroots movement like a genuine communist insurrection then I could at least given them a pass on how they get the resources to build Gundams, feed their fighters, and some how reimburse them as well. At least Mao had to appreciate how much those simple peasants weren’t buying communism wholesale during his Yan’an days, thus he had to play nice with those dirty land owning parasites and not institute Cultural Revolution right at the beginning. However we have no idea what questionable activities CB uses to get their cash, we never see any local support for their operations and it seems very much to be a few people operating in a single terror cell rather than a revolution of the masses. As it stands Ms. Wang and Corner have a lot of money to be sure, we just never get to see how precisely they earn it. Given how the UN has been losing the stock market can’t be all that great and if it looks like the Big Three are about to fold government war bonds no longer seem like a viable investment meaning that Corner and Ms. Wang should not have that much cash if financial power is their actual means of funding CB’s acts of terror. So either Ms. Wang has been stealing big time or she is a high class escort for the rich and powerful. Given how Ms. Wang could not be of much use to Johann Trinity, I seriously doubt investment banking is her strong suit.

Playing Tactician

I see your Lichty development and raise you an ass shot.

I like to see some tactical sense in my war anime because it shows how important thinking is to an army and how an anti-intellectual and pro-emo bias can screw an army over no matter how seemingly strong. The UN has one good tactician and one good operational planner. However neither is given the spotlight as often as the vaunted Grofaz Sumeragi who has been billeted as a skilled tactician and a cunning strategist. However while both Sergei and Katie have earned their stripes with enough sound decisions, Sumeragi still has not. Her formations are a joke and I will never forget how they sortied in a column instead of a Schwarm or fuck even a Vic formation at this point. Even if a Gundam is a different machine than a fighter, a lone pilot cannot have full situational awareness at any given time, you always need a wingman to watch your back. They could have had more inter meister cooperation if they had decided to use the wingman dynamic, but it never occurred and the meisters still fight as individuals rather than as a team.

I’d say you collectively have 3/5s of a brain.

As captains go Sumeragi is probably down near the bottom even with her imitation Bright Slap. She is more of a glorified babysitter than anything else and probably spends more time drinking and just sitting there looking pretty than taking command or directing Gundam traffic. Instead she elects to fight with much reduced combat power when retreat would have been her first priority given how:

1. always assume the enemy is better shape that you
2. if you cannot attack, defend
3. if you cannot defend, retreat
4. if you cannot retreat, die

Basic military principles and easy enough to implement in fiction, nevertheless our much praised Sumeragi is not in the business of preserving her force to further the mission. In fact the way things have been going Teiria and Setsuna have basically taken command of 50% of her starting combat power and she just tends the maintenance depot. The fact that she ASKED Ian to make repairs in 6 hours instead of 8 tells me she is no captain. The CO of a ship does not have to ask, and honestly any officer worth his/her rations wants something done they order it to get done, they never say “please distract that MG nest while I sit here safely behind this piece of cover and out of sight…” For a woman who adheres to strict time tables and elaborately coordinated assaults she actually does not even give effective orders for such a set up to work. It’s almost like the old Methodical Battle Doctrines of the French, but with out the command structure for it to work (it would have worked too had Trench Warfare been the norm). Sumeragi seeks to minimize human error in her plans yet allows it to run rampant. She never walks away with any tactical lessons form her losses her tactics have not changed since day one. Heck even the Egyptians and Syrians took valuable lessons from the Six Day War on how to fight, despite blaming the West. That is why the Egyptians and Syrians came damn near close to beating Israel in 1973. Too bad (for them) they did not stay under their SAM umbrellas, but that is another more interesting story. Sumeragi is in a war zone but seems to act as if this is still some sort of training exercise. Discipline on her ship was most lacking as not only was she drinking heavily she allowed Tieria to intimidate her into doing tactically unsound things.

I could pretend to like this guy. However I do not give aid and comfort to terrorists. (I miss Heero)

As it stands she is a subpar commander of troops, and a terrible strategist, and yet some how we are supposed to respect her for her brilliance? It comes as little surprise that Sumeragi is merely loved for her rack rather than any tactical skill she might posses. She essentially abandoned ship before her crew and instead of using the assault container as a fighter she used it as a freaking turret with huge blind spots and limited firing arcs. I have been steadily losing hope that she would ever live up to the rep that we have been given. She did not go down with her ship and abandoned her crew that to me is disgraceful. Even Captain Edward J. Smith of the Titanic at least had enough decency not to take up a seat on a life boat when he sunk his own ship. If cowardice and abandoning your own men is not hateful then I could not do what I do to earn college money. I would definitely be for fragging Sumeragi with a grenade while she took a piss because she is a failed commander in a war zone if I could not get her discharged. I would be much more forgiving is she took away tactical lessons, but she can’t even do that she has not changed much as a commander. So what if she can talk to her crew now? The primary responsibility of a commander is to complete his/her mission with minimal losses. It is not to baby sit your pilots or get to know them personally. She sunk to a new low by not going down with hr ship and abandoning her crew. She could have sent Lichty to pilot the container, but as captain Sumeragi should have never left her ship with crew still on board. I don’t find this action to make me want to sing her praise, or about how she bravely left her crew behind to make her escape.

Conclusion

Lost Lichty, lost Chris. It came from BEHIND. (At his moment I had hoped Ali would come in and say “I have you now.”)

If I am not supposed to take this that seriously then why even bother to bring real conflicts into play if they want us to simple gawk at the mecha? If you have nothing to say about these conflicts then what was the point in making direct references to real conflicts where the death toll mounts daily? Surely they could have at least respected the opposing sides by not watering down their conflicts as overly simple affairs, and just used imaginary factions and fictitious countries. If war was so central to the initial sales pitch for this series then there should have been a real portrayal of war in all its horror. Instead I am left with this mess, and as it stands the original direction this series was headed for has pretty much been lost. If CB was against the killing and the butchery why fight the guys with political limitations? They might as well kill policemen as a way to stop gang violence since the police get into shootouts with civilians. Tieria is about the only honest guy about what they are actually fighting for, a world at peace that is enforced by them. What he is advocating is essentially a dystopia where the only weapons are in the hands of a Gundam junta that came to power not by the will of the masses, but by threat of force. Other than that what could they be fighting for other than their own vanity and inability to turn themselves in?

Yes, it is impossible to think that she is trying to lure a kid into her car.

The fundamental problem for me is that none of the protagonists are really that appealing, I hear the cries that they are changing and thinking for themselves. However, they are still stuck in their old ways. Setsuna still thinks that he is Gundam and he still hates God, Tieria is still trying to fulfill his version of the grand plan, Sumeragi is still bending over for Tieria, and Marina is still princess poverty. To be sure Christina and Lichty did grow a little, but honestly will they be remembered for the good that they have done for the world or the series? I highly doubt it as there did not seem to be much said about them. I prophecy to you this that Christina will be known by future generations (if at all) for her melonpan and telling Feldt to change clothes, and the Lichty will be remembered for having a bionic member rather than being a kick arse helmsman. Sure world peace is a cause we can all like, but if we look closer at what kind of peace they are looking for it is not so sympathetic. Add to the fact that most of the CB has a big case of the stupid they remain seldom respected and as for the female cast, they are still celebrated more for their racks rather than their abilities. If fans did celebrate smart women I would think that Katie would get much more love, such is not the case.

For tragedy to occur the audience must care. I do not care (I doubt that every body and their mum cares), so why the fuck should I cry that they have learned something…? Oh they did not die alone and will live on in each other’s hearts and in Feldt’s nightmares, big deal. I am just glad they were killed by some dude (where is your Aeolia now?!).

There would probably be few problems on my end if the CB guys actually showed enough tactical insight for their little scheme to work, but their combat power is derived from upgrades, not so much skill or any change in tactics. The running theme here seems to be if there is a problem we have an upgrade. For me this series has thrown off the shackles of realism and is not a serious anime as we were lead to believe with the use of terrorism, mention of the Tamil Insurgency, and the Sunni-Shia split. It could have been much more that what it is and in my opinion fails to live up the legacy of the UC Gundams. Sure nostalgia may have dulled my memories, but I miss having Gundams that were only marginally better than the enemy’s suits, that needed combined arms support, and I miss having an opposing suit that can consistently remain a credible threat to a Gundam. At least Universal Century had a coup, the Feddies going Titan bad, Christina Mackenzie, and Zeon splitting into groups that supported demagogues who invoked dead leaders. Things were more interesting back then; Char actually winning was not so far fetched in Char’s Counterattack.

As a fan of Ali, I agree that Chris and Lichty can go ahead and die. To expect me to cry for a Chris and Lichty is like asking Ali not to kill someone… (Evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.)

If all this is just a mere mecha fight, then why not just go the route of G-Gundam? Why try and make it semi serious if all you’re going to do is piss on real conflicts as mere sideshows? At least G-Gundam was clear on what it was about, Gundam Fights! I find it strange how I am not supposed to apply and form of seriousness to this, and yet cannot mock it for the melon-pan parade that it has become. If Gundam 00 is not a serious critique of the current situation or about the real issue of terrorism and the dynamics of war and peace, why do I do I have to blog seriously about it? The demands for a fair and balanced portrayal of Gundam 00 are impossible for me. I cannot sympathize with the CB cause or make any military sense of their actions, heck they don’t even seem to follow tried and true methods of terrorism as historically demonstrated by the FLN. Even if the FLN was amoral and had a brutality streak at least I can make military sense of what they were doing. I could at least respect that fact that the FLN were being coldly calculating and waging a war without compromise when they set out to end French rule rather than being idiots. I can respect competence in an evil man, but here that is lacking.

Yes, gold plated mobile armor shows that this war is indeed serious because nothing says wasted government funds like gold plated weapons.

I firmly believe that a blog post merely voices the opinion of the bloggger, and it is just that an opinion. I have never professed to being an authority on Gundam and since I picked up this series I intend to finish it. I might be wrong I might be right, but so is every opinion. Maybe there is a person who believes that Sumeragi has lived up to her billet as supremely skilled tactician. However I don’t see any tactical brilliance on her part at all. Sure she tried to force Sergei split up way back when, but once her plan fell to pieces there was no back up plan, and she still has no back up plan.

Still soon this will all end and as much as I want Ali to kick Setsuna’s ass before the credits roll, I don’t think that is going to happen.

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Comments (39)

Okay…

A. I don’t agree that Corner has monopolized power over the UN. As of now I’m
more inclined to believe that he conspirators that we do not know of.

B. Bias sucks, so is pent up agression…

C. You’re treating CB as “conventional” terrorists, as of now we never had any
of the technologically superior kind. And as for their methods, they were initially
guided by VeDa which knew of Aeolia’s true mission, and planned its interventions
around it.

And think about it, the Corner family (which I will assume as an wealthy one)
was involved in CB for several generations. So we can safely assume there could be more
of these wealthy bastards backing CB and possibly showering Ms. Wang w/ money as well.

D. You are asking for too much transparency from this series.

There should be more but this is the first time I had to think hard for a comment.

Edit: Is losing much of my spacing a bug?

Gravmech added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 2:38 am

let’s just wait for code geass 2.

rollchan added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 4:04 am

@rollchan: Agreed!

Even though I haven’t seen this series, I’m just going to say that it feels somewhat like a Code Geass copy. But I think that opinion might change once I actually start watching it. Is it even worth the watch though? Because I get an 18GB download limit each month, so I have to download anime wisely, LOL! Damnit.

Blissmo added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 5:31 am

“As per a few demands by the pro-Gundam 00 camp”

The pro-Gundam 00 camp consisting of one individual going by the codename of The Meister, and who else?

Meh, I don’t see why you had to go to all that trouble. Certain people just don’t listen to anyone but themselves.

Ascaloth added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 5:34 am

Foolish I am, for thinking that you were not very capable of intelligent discussion.

Anyway, I suppose your opinion is derived from the fact that you’re a soldier, know plenty about real-life conflicts, military tactics etc, which gives you an opinion that everything you see or hear in Gundam 00 about those are bullshit or downright laughable. It’s understandable, since most of us here have our opinions formed because of the circumstances surrounding us in real life, and we tend to bring it into fiction, facepalm when they supposedly screw up, and start declaring our undying dislike of the show for being ‘unrealistic’ and a ‘farce’.

Why don’t you take a pinch of salt before watching anime ever again, then? Not every director, every scriptwriter might have served for long-term in the military before, so you can expect discrepancies here and there. As for politics? It’s not as though politics was meant to be the most important thing in the series itself, although I can admit that the origins and conclusions behind certain conflicts were sketchy at best. Still, you can’t throw everything into a 25 episode long season 1 without developing the characters as much as they need it.

-You’re wrong about Setsuna. He hated God, true, but episode 24 showed him having the realisation that he was the master of his own destiny, not the God he imagined to be up there. I don’t feel any hatred, merely a sense of discovery for himself as to what he can fight for instead of cursing God all the way.

As for Tieria? the change in him is that we know he’s actually capable of expressing emotion, rather than simply be a mindless drone and either drown in the throes of despair that his beloved VEDA had abandoned him (essentially being unchanged, since he’s still clinging on to VEDA like a baby) or stand up and continue to fight for what he believes in.

That being said, I wish you would give more serious thought to your criticisms with each episode, instead of cursing and swearing at the characters like a second-rate fan. Poking fun is fine, really, but only in moderation. Apparently your view on the real world and the circumstances has clouded your thinking, so therefore you didn’t even bothered to take one tiny crystal of salt in your view towards entertainment in general.

I’d stop here. I said once that your frustration at what could potentially be a ‘realistic’ series in your eyes is understandable, since you’re in the military. That being said, you should stop degrading yourself to looking like a teenager who has no idea of the implications of using the f**k words and sex jokes, since you’re apparently capable of intelligent discussion and analysis.

Good day, and once again, thanks for taking the trouble to explain your POV.

O.D added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 5:38 am

While I really don’t have anything to add to Crusader’s lengthy explanation of his apparent misgivings over Gundam 00, I DO have something that might cheer him up a bit. Mind you, it’s probably better if you head over to Omni’s site.

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Gundam%2000/Gundam%2000%20-%2025%20-%20Large%2033.jpg

Lookee who’s behind Katie in the Earth Federation (you got it, the UN have officially become the Feddies) lineup.

Myssa Rei added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 6:04 am

OD, you misunderstand.The problem is not that it’s unrealistic, it’s that it claims to have a slightly more realitic take on gundam even if there’s super robots.It fails, I am forced to agree with crusader here.Sumeragi just isn’t a genius.The Yang Wenli vibe isn’t here.The only thing I see is a commander that has completely lost control of the situation and listen to the crew like she ’s the captain of some pirate ship.

@crusader: I don’t think Setsuna, Lockon and Hallelujia work for CB because they have a clear ideology.They just wanted to go on a rampage and CB came along to give them all the necessary tools( ideology and mecha).

Oh,BTW, I think that’s the kind of post Kaoshin wanted.He will be pleased.

ZeusIrae added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 6:14 am

to tell you the truth, honestly, the only reason I liked to watch this series is because of the good OP/ED themes in it. haha. what a reason…. ¬_¬ …….

rollchan added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 6:37 am

Edit: Is losing much of my spacing a bug? <– it’s fixed. The theme is just changed 2 days ago…so ya, Rieu did the changes. ^_^

Impz added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 6:59 am

Well I agree with a great deal of what Crusader said.

As for the 00 writing team not having the military expertise to write logically about these issues: as far as I know it isn’t that hard to hire an expert on the subject. A little effort to get the right expertise in your writing staff would have done wonders.

Gideon added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 7:28 am

Did I ever mention that I don’t like Gundam 00…but I like your screen captions?

I was going to try to watch 00, but I ended up not being able to make myself.

rieuzedx added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 8:17 am

I’ve always felt that The 08th MS Team was a lot more realistic (after the first episode and barring the last 2-3 episodes, anyway)than most Gundam series out there. Mostly because of the raw emotion and actually shows the consequences of not obeying orders in an organized fighting force. For an animated series, anyway

With that said, I’ve never really seen G00 apart from the first episode, and it struck too close to home for me. Gimme 08th MS Team anyday. Or War in the Pocket. I liked what I saw in WotP. Or maybe Turn A. It sounds interesting.

DrmChsr0 added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 8:30 am

@Gravmech

A If Corner was not convinced that he was the only one who would rule the world then why do it? Since he had Ribbons, and was able to off Lagna with Ali I am sure when Corner got names he ensured that he killed off any potential rivals to his throne, though he did not suspect his angel. If rival claimants to the Aeolia throne start coming out the wood work and at every turn, then it would make for one fine cluster fuck. It would also mean that Corner is an idiot for not killing off his rivals and that if an idiot beats CB, then the guys in CB are pretty much idiots too.

B Oh yes bias is bad and humans should have none. We must be fair and balanced. You know that gives me an idea that I will elaborate further. However for now I suppose that you are one of the few who have no biases and treat everything fairly and equally. I have many biases, I am biased against ass hat commanders, I am biased against the two political parties that dominate the politics in my home country, I have a bias in favor of pro-choice, and there are plenty more. I will not pretend that I have no biases when they are clearly there, nor will I claim to be un-biased in my views on certain issues I care enough to believe that a woman has the right to choose when she becomes a mother, and that both major American Parties are indeed collections of scum. I feel that if you believe in something that by default you will always lean towards it or against it. To be truly fair and balanced would mean not caring at all, after all if I do not give two shits about certain things I may as well settle things with a coin toss since it is 50/50 and is suitably random. If you can indeed go through life being totally unbiased then please write a book and spread your gospel, for if every one were fair and balanced there would be no problems at all.

C You know terrorists are not Luddites and often do adopt advanced technology where ever possible, I have seen very creative ways of rigging up IEDs with remote detonators. This implies a level of sophistication, or at th very least some rudimentary electrical engineering correspondence course for those wishing to commit acts of terror. Osama himself used a sat phone back when they were new. Even with the technological edge the same limitations still apply to CB, they are limited in numbers, have to operate in cells to avoid the capture of every one in the organization, they cannot hold ground, they must some how win support for their actions, and need to use extra legal means to get the needed resources, unless they show off the Aeolia mine works. A technological edge means nothing if they have not the sense to use it properly, and what matters most in terrorism is winning popular support or at least making the prevailing power seem weak and impotent against you causing an erosion of confidence in the opposing force.

A Gundam is essentially an instrument of terror a technologically advanced one, but it cannot take an hold territory. It can make the Big Three seem much less powerful. A Gundam can strike with impunity therefore engendering fear. Sure they can level whole blocks, but the real weapon is fear, fear of intervention.

Veda is just a glorified supreme leader that merely disseminates orders. It had an Aeolia core and it’s not a stretch to say that Aeolia himself was the one giving the orders so long as no one disturbed his tomb.

As for these unseen financial backers I find it hard to believe that a bunch of dudes with money will never lust for power. Money changes people, and if this is the case then it would mean that CB is fighting for a plutocratic world dominated by the wealthy. Once those rich people do come to power I doubt that they will usher in a golden age rather than robber baron capitalism. For all their bluster about peace if relying upon the support of wealthy power brokers is their primary means of getting cash then it should be apparent even to them that their intervention is not about peace. It is rare indeed for a nice guy to get rich on his own. Note even Carnegie was always nice and he did have a hand in screwing his own workers, and the man was once one of them. Unless that man lived in the Deng era where to get rich was glorious and that man got rich first.

D I am not asking that they open up their offices to the public. All I want is for them to deliver on what was promised, a new Gundam 00 that would take on issues that would affect the world today. I have no doubts that when they brought in the Ceylon conflict they were proud to have given mention to a war that hardly garners headlines with Darfur, Tibet, and to a lesser extent Iraq in the headlines. They tout Sumeragi as the heir to General Revil and woman who should by all rights be a brilliant tactician, but that is not the case. If Sumeragi were not touted as such there would be no comparisons to Bright Noa nor would we laugh at her alleged brilliance. If they made her out to be an inexperienced commander then her mistakes would have seemed less daft. As it stands I am still waiting to see if she can live up to the praise that Lockon had been showering upon her.

@rollchan
Indeed bunny girls ahoy! Yes, watching for the OP and ED are legitimate reasons to be wtching the music is good its Sumeragi who sucks.

@Blissimo
It depends on how much you love mecha. I don’t think I love it nearly enough to overlook the flaws. Code Geass is more of a known factor and the parallels to Gundam 00 aren’t readily apparent if they are even there. Still Lulu is at least an upgrade of Setsuna.

@Ascaloth
Well he who shall not be named did not bother to leave a comment, but O.D did. He bothered to read, so I bothered to respond. Besides I hit a wall in in chapter 8-4 in Super Paper Mario.

@O.D
They touted this as a somewhat realistic Gundam that would talk about real conflicts. I initially saw some viable Cold War analogies and wars by proxy, and thus saw it through a more realistic lens. At least with Code Geass reality was tossed out given the Lulu magic of Geass and CC’s ability to survive head shots. I don’t ask that the director put himself in a position where his ass could get shot off, but would it really cost him that much to hire some one who could at least make Sumeragi appear as a tactician or a political scientist who could weigh in on the dynamics of regional power plays and international rivalry? You can still have artitic license even with some one telling you what is possible and what is not in Saving Private Ryan there should not have been any Tiger Is during the first 6 days. The film was set within the first 6 days of D-Day and th inclusion of Tiger Is while incorrect was believable if you don’t know the history because it was a WWII tank. You cannot have a character be a skilled tactician when their plans consistently turn to shit. They call it Sumeragi planning, but it seldom seems to go beyond directions on how to get there.

Lastly swearing and crude black humor are staples of soldier banter. They talk of this as a war so I may as well use the war language I use. ZeusIrae is right they aspired for a realistic slant and failed. At least with Code Geass there is no pretense at realism.

@Myssa Rei
Thank you comrade, Patrick being alive and well is indeed good news and I check out /m/ to confirm that my Hero Ali is coming back. Hooray for Patrick he will never ever die so long as he has a Katie to come back to.

@ZeusIrae
I did not see him leave a comment and it was actually meant for O.D and AmuroX1 since they bothered to comment.

In any case Sumeragi is not even worthy of being a Pirate Capitan. No do not associate her name with the distinguished rep of Edward Teach and Black Bart. These guy could get things done and scored much booty. Sumeragi has captured zero ships in her career. Besides I can’t see her has being elected as captain since Tieria has Veda votes.

@Gideon
Yeah a bit of expertise never hurt any one and certainly having a Schwarm formation during a 4 Gundam sortie would have been much more sensible than a column.

@rieuzedx
Thanks, and enjoy comrade. Also good job on getting things new and improved.

@DrmChsr0
Yes Gundam 8th MS team remains one of my favorites, using beam saber for a hot tub! Now that is field improvisation at its finest. I also miss Gundam 0080 it was the only one where I really felt bad for both sides, well okay Bernie and Chris, but they were cute and I miss them. I wondered what happened to Alfred…

Crusader added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 10:49 am

@Ascaloth: Yeah I’m the only one who liked Gundam 00…Ever! As usual you have your own self-constructed reality that you insulate yourself in and that is why I don’t take you serious anymore and just consider you that guy that likes to whine all the time about what I do instead of minding his own business. Advice, stop hiding behind whoever holds an opinion contrary to myself and start forging your own man. I don’t even really care about your petty grudge anymore, I stopped caring ages ago. Just find something else to do or give us your thoughts on the matter rather than grousing about me….for your own sake. Otherwise you succeed in nothing. It’s really time to grow up Ascaloth and to stop making things into a paltry schoolyard scuffle all the time.

@Crusader: I was sleeping when you put this up and typing up my response in the time you were writing your own. I need a chance to actually write this up as I’ve been doing for the past half hour. First I had to wake up, eventually notice that you had indeed made the post and then formulate my response. It takes time. Yeesh.

Anyway, yes this is exactly what I hoped to see from Crusader, a response with words, not with memes sparsed with German. Still there are a number of key fallacies in where you’ve gathered up your information and in other cases I think you are just not really even looking hard enough for the necessary info.

Addressing how Alejandro Corner consolidated power, he is a member of the Observer group that has plants in high levels of government all over the world. He has always had the ability to pull strings, but in his dialogue we constantly see him biding his time waiting for the right conditions. Those conditions came when the Gundams had their battle in the desert and were about to be destroyed. Trinity was deployed and the time was right to send his GN Drives and gain the favour of nations all around the world. He literally saved them from being subdued by Celestial Being when they were about to surrender so they definitely owed him a debt of gratitude. What better way then to follow his lead from then on out when the three powers merged into one de facto one. Of course he failed miserably if you’ve seen episode 25, but that’s how he dunnit I strongly believe.

Now your bias as soldier. From the get go this ruins a lot of objectivety for watching the show, but I sort of understand. I’ve never been in the military because as a Canadian I’ve sort of been raised to believe in solving conflicts with diplomacy and we don’t really believe in war so much as peacekeeping, but I know that soldiers are conditioned, almost hardwired to know who the enemy is when they see them. In this case it would be Celestial Being. It ruins a lot of the show though when you can’t see all sides of the conflict because of your conditioning though and I almost feel pity rather than outrage for your case now. Well at least now that you used words.

-Your criticism of Lockon is just a silly argument though. Why in a series with Mecha combat do you expect an Enemy At The Gates style conflict with Lockon? That’s not even the right type of conflict so that doesn’t really make much sense.

- Patrick is not that kind of greenhorn character, he has been designated as comic relief and in that paragraph you are blaming the writers for not making the series that YOU wanted. That doesn’t automatically make it bad.

- No arguments on Ali, you nailed his character in my opinion.

- No arguments again (why can’t you write like this more often?)

- The UN did try to sell Azadistan a nuclear power plant and it was blown up by Ali in the Azadistan arc. We also had an episode that dealt with how the power is shared between the revolutionists of Marina and the conservatives of Rasa Mafmoudi (I think I got that right). Since that was only a two episode arc and only a small part of the plotline that was pretty much all that was needed. Again you need to pay more attention I think. Also Marina’s hypocrisy was noted during the Coup D’etat and a number of other things such as how they ended up in poverty. Years of fighting in the solar wars exhausted their resources and tough sanctions from the AEU put them in a difficult economic situation. You seem to get this blind rage whenever Celestial Being has the focus and miss a lot of important plot details.

- You are again upset that the plot didn’t progress the way you wanted to. You seem angry that the narrative progressed beyond the episodic interventions and into the realm of a clear conflict between the world and the Celesital Being. It’s a clear transition too so I don’t know what you are on about here. Your argument is kind of losing steam at this point and relying more on why the show didn’t tailor itself to you then actual fallacies in it’s writing. Also I don’t know what WWII, LBJ and the first Gulf War have to do with Gundam 00.

- Massive digression. No real comment.

- I find it funny you post a picture of Allelujah and then say the characters suffer no morale dillema’s. Did you forget the episode where he was forced to make his case to the higher ups by destroying the HRL laboratory with the kid Super Soldiers in it. He was tearing himself up inside while doing it, arguing with his Hallelujah side and was even going to chicken out to the point when Hal had to goad him into pulling the trigger. Hallelujah by the way seems like a personality that came into existence out of necessity to aid in Allelujah’s very survival. It may be kind of corny I’ll admit but it does lend itself to moralistic jousting within the characters own mind. A big thing happens with these two in episode 25 so look forward to it those who are fans. Then there’s Setsuna who is haunted by the death of his parents and dreams of Marina representing his inner desire for peace telling him to lay down his arms and end the fighting. That’s inner conflict. Lockon confesses his sins in his death, that’s moral conflict. Sumeragi drinks and stresses everyday about something she did in her past and is trying to teach the impressionable Christina and Felt that their duty to war isn’t everything and that human life is still precious (she doesn’t even seem to think they should be there). That’s personal doubt. All of these people are in Celestial Being for their own reason based on something that happened to them in their past and to see those mistakes not be repeated. They all have one thing in common and that is that war caused them personal suffering. The method they chose to end that may have been the path of their own destruction in tactical intervention, but they do have morals, regrets and misgivings. If you didn’t see this then again I think you just weren’t paying attention since you labelled them terrorists and even admit you didn’t try to sympathize with them.

- Nobody said Sumeragi was perfect, but she was kind of forced into this situation. Veda’s decision making process is unknown and it’s been postulated that a person isn’t chosen for a position based on their qualifications but on other criteria such as personal drive and background. Skills are obviously a part of it as she was a tactician in the Union, but that’s not necessarily all of it. Consider too that Celestial Being isn’t meant to be a typical military organization. Nonetheless I’ll allow you that Sumeragi could have been handled better. By the way your again starting to show a bit of immaturity in your screen captions. This is supposed to be your big reasoning post and your trying to illicit a laugh from people. Not the time Crusader not the time.

- I don’t know where you got the idea where you are supposed to love Sumeragi. She’s a flawed character and you can dislike her all you want. I don’t really like her that much either, she’s still my favourite female captain in Gundam in that she’s the most interesting, but she isn’t a perfect character or tactician and her mistakes are deliberate on part of the writers to show this. She defers a bit to Tieria as he IS in a position of power equal to her in the sense that he has been given the priviledge of direct access to Veda while Sumeragi has not. Think of him like Ash in the movie Alien where he is able to override Ripley and Dallas on a number of occasions because of special priviledge granted to him as the science officer. Like I said, this isn’t even really meant to be your typical military unit, it is very much a creation of the writers in it’s structure. Blaming the writers for not writing things out as you wanted them. I see this a lot in the anime community these days unfortunately. I don’t blame you to much as I know of your conditioning as a soldier, but still man, come on….

- Why do you presume you know what direction this series was headed for? Who said that a realistic depiction of war was the single goal of the series? You? Me? Ascaloth? God?! Well obviously that isn’t the direction it headed in, but people who chose to realize and accept that the story was headed in it’s own unique path have come away for the most part very satisfied. You again seem caught up in your own biases and beliefs on how the show should present itself and seem to feel that if it doesn’t then it’s a trainwreck. That’s not so, but let’s talk about some of your points here in finer detail. Setsuna no longer thinks of the Gundam as God after this conflict. Watch episode 24 and his monologue after viewing Lockon’s death via Haro’s recording and this becomes evident. He doesn’t believe in any god after that point but believes in himself as himself. Again I can sort of guess why you missed this and it has something to do with the “Terrorist” label you attached to him. Tieria changed a lot too and is now a more hotblooded type with regard to how he conducts himself, although with eppy 25 that may have changed. Marina I’ll give, but then again there really wasn’t much of a reason for her to change. You missed the symoblic gesture in Christina telling Felt to change clothes in that it was her telling her to continue to open up and trust others like she did Lockon and a sort of goodbye to her that would allow her to carry her memory with greater ease. (remember how Chris loved to take Felt shopping when they had shore leave) Your comment about the female cast being respected for their racks must be your own as myself and others have found many other reasons to look at their actions in greater detail and also if you must know Katie, not Sumeragi, Louise or Felt, is my favourite out of all the female characters for not looking like your usual perfectly proportioned female anime character and her overall strict no nonsense bearing. She’s one of few precious female characters these days who doesn’t rely on a moe trait to sell her story to the audience, she just does. I love Katie and thank them for putting her in.

- While in the early series the Gundam’s were definetly more overwhelming compared to other suits, this changed with the GN-X. The Gundam’s are only marginally more powerful than any given GN-X just as you desire from UC. I don’t see what their is to complain about. I agree that 00 hasn’t been as strong as some of the UC series or Turn A, but I don’t see why that makes it a bad show and deserving of getting bashed into the ground every week to the cheers and jeers of certain commentators.

- What the heck is a melonpan parade? I have no idea what you are talking about her really. You just seem to be rehashing your earlier points that I have said are the result of you overfocusing on what the show isn’t rather than what it is and failing to pay attention to a number of details that would have even gone far enough to explain your criticism.

- Again you end of an article with what you want, and I guess if you don’t get it it doesn’t matter how well it is written regardless right?

Well overall I am grateful you tried to lay out your criticisms, but saddened that most of the reasons behind your hatred seem so shallow and steeped in bias. Yet at the same time I understand as you are a soldier and you are trained to recognize things in a certain manner and dismiss other things out of hand. I’ll say this one more time though in the hopes that it can get through and be at least entertained by some:

As I posted it on my own blog verbatim, read my lips, just because a series doesn’t follow the plotline you desire doesn’t make it a trainwreck. You put up so many good words but make it easy to dismiss as a justification for portraying the series as terrible. As a reason for justifying you opinion it is more than acceptable and appreciated, but not as an excuse to deride the plotline of a series and tell us what you think we feel about it or how it should play out. I think you’d do good just to stick to your own expression of how you feel about it rather than bringing down the writers for trying to tell a story that is not going the way you want it. That’s all I ever argued.

As it stands I cannot retract the notion that you are biased, nor do I think you really even want me to. What I can express is my gratitude that you expressed things at a level I can connect with. I’m sorry that the series didn’t turn out how you wanted it, but can only sympathize so much when you choose to turn that disappointment into rage against the writers and hurt other peoples enjoyment of the series and potentially turn off other potential watchers who would come by your blog (It has a large readership yes?) and take your admittedly biased version of the series narrative at face value and decline to pick it up when they otherwise would have. That to me is of greater shame then your own dislike of the series and the crux of why I have criticized you so much.

Kaioshin_Sama added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 10:54 am

I wonder why people would judge a series they never saw before based on personal feelings.

Any ways, I watched several episodes of Geass and had to stop because the politics was so biased and full of nationalism. Even though Gundam 00 is flawed in the ways that Crusader mentioned above, atleast the Celestial Beings are not viewed as the new saviors of the world but instead terrorists by both the characters in the series and the people who watch it. This suggests that the unfavorable aspects of the show were most likely implemented on purpose and are possibly being used to demonstrate the imperfect nature of people and their
morals and ideals.
To be honest, I only watched Gundam 00 because of the Kouga Yun art. I think that the series is as dry and soulness as the gundams themselves. Nevertheless, I will watch the second half in October because I think it has potential.

Llyke added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 11:03 am

@Kiaoshin
Back off Ascaloth now, this is my backyard not yours or his. If you do not care do not respond. You are here to discuss gundam not to flame him and to be flammed by him.

I think that the observer group is little better than rubber stamp committee Corner had to get their approval to accept the Trinities and I think Lagna Harvey was playing his own games, before Ribbons stepped in. Judging by the last ep Corner was merely dancing to Ribbon’s tune, he lacks the ruthlessness to be that thorough. He presented has only interacted with Ms. Wang and Ribbons. I think ribbons was the real power behind his throne.

You presume I do not understand the other side. Fact is we are aware of who the enemy is and what it is they are fighting for. We are well aware of the promises that our forebears made to them and how our leaders generations ago used them in proxy wars against the USSR. I am also well aware of their grievances against the state of Israel. We understand their cause, we oppose how they have chosen to operate. The US brass has been well aware of the terrorist threat, but until 9/11 they had largely attacked Embassies and Military instillations. The change is now they have decided to attack people who have no affiliation with the US government. This development has made the prevailing situation untenable, and now here we are trying to burn them out of their rat holes.

Al’s moral dilemma was solved for him by Hal I consider Hal to be distinct and independent of Al for the purposes of deciding on things. Al hesitated at the moment of truth, it was Hal who pulled the trigger. Hal is Ali-lite. Tieria lost his link with Veda his input has no weight and for Sumeragi to still allow herself to be brow beaten into accepting bad tactical advice has remained consistent. Every time Tieria gripes she listens and accepts. Setsuna still thinks he is Gundam and as I do not believe he has absolved Ali of the lions’s share of the blame for him killing his parents I do not think that his guilt qualifies as a moral dilemma as he had already shot them. It’s not as if he can shoot them again. His moral dilemma was rather short lived and didn’t really net much. Did he stop fighting? No. Did he vote for a retreat? No. Did he accept full responsibility for killing his mum and move on with his life? No. Sure his conscience showed up but he quickly shut her up and rejected her until his sorry sop e-mail.

Let’s see “smart” woman, haunted by her past, comely wench, nice to her friends, and runs about in skimpy clothing. Certainly she is being touted in a very good light, and given her screen time we are at least supposed to sympathize if not melt between her gazongas. I still think Katie is the best Female Captain in all of Gundam 00. Cima Garahau is still Pirate Queen of Gundam in my book and Cima could kick Sumeragi’s ass any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Cima’s revenge would have been complete if that twit Kou had followed orders.

I recognize that the typical command structure fighting formations conventional and unconventional do not apply. Yet it does not fit with the commissar system of the USSR nor is CB a lawless mob. Sumeragi does not just defer, she does what he wants. Few are the instances where she does not overrule a meister’s wish to go off and tarry. Setsuna should not have been allowed to go to earth in the first place. Yet he gets to go. As Capitan she ought to have known that her combat power was deficient for the task and should have retreated with all due haste. sure she gives them thumb drive with plans, but they never see what’s on them do they? A medical officer cannot overrule a commander in matters of tactics, and Tieria is not the tactician, and if he was meant to be the brains then Veda would have made him captain and sent sent Sumeragi off to clean the latrines.

They lead me on about zero sum games and political intrigue the narrator was blaring that for the first couple episodes then it stopped. I ask where is that now? It was an advertising point, but here we are and there is no political double dealing or zero sum games. I wish they had not made such promises in the first place. It’s like telling me there are big macs at a store and when I get there all I see are half eaten hamburgers. If they did not want a realistic slant then why promise it in the first place? You like how this has all turned out and how Sumeragi has become the best Female Capitan in all of Gundam, but I don’t like hoe this has turned out. Those who watched based on the promise of a realistic slant and political intrigue have very right to feel betrayed. I do. My enjoyment since then has lessened. As for the Melonpan Parade do you honestly think that banter in bathing suits on more than one occasion makes for political intrigue or serious development? I do not think Sumeragi’s shower scene was meant to be exciting in the context of plot progression rather than appealing to otaku loins. Since fanservice always has a place it would seem to me that as Sumeragi is pretty much int he thick of it that she is also supposed to be liked as fap material as well. Of all the female cast i am confident that you will find that Sumeragi gets a whole lot, and hence gets more development so we can love her more as a good guy fighting the good fight.

The GN-X was essentially made irrelevant by Trans-am and GN-arms. The UN lost over 50% of their combat strength to those systems. As I see it losses had continued to mount and honestly how is losing 50% for merely draining CB of upgrades a mark of parity between the GN-X and Trans-am Gundams? It’s like how the the Virgo was equal to a Gundam only in large groups and calling them near equals. The lowly Zaku remained a credible threat to Gundams in UC, the same cannot be said of a GN-X one on one.

I have never took on the mantle of being the grand authority on gundam, I have always posted my personal opinion and while you see it as steeped in bias it is what it is. You haggle over what can and cannot be said, and then all of a sudden I am now hurting other people and their enjoyment. I fail to understand how just merely posting is an active means of destroying your enjoyment. You do not have to read if you don’t want to its that simple. Not every one is happy with how things have turned out. Just because you think all is well does not make it well for me. I also had a chance to read your post and found it with abundant vitriol its just a show I enjoy it my way you enjoy it yours. I like memes and German you don’t have to. I am not telling you to shut up but you seem to want me to. I have met many people from varied places and in all honesty you are what the conservative ass hats you hate so much refer to as a liberal wanker, it’s your view that is right and you pretend to be fair and balance and pretend you have no bias. Every one has a bias because every person believes in something, you are biased against FOX and you are biased against any negative view of Gundam the does not fit your opinion. I do not doubt that those who still watch and still groan at the same time like Gundam 00, but on a different level. Some like having Sumeragi take a shower, you like mecha fights, some like poking fun at Setsuna for being an idiot, and I like Gundam 00 because the UN blokes are just that awesome. The plot may not be terrible to you, but it is not the case for every body. Not every one has the time to go watch Gundam 00 again and again, and in all seriousness I still do not see what was so tragic about Lichty and Chris dying.

@Llyke
Second half has a dude with a mask and the Federation is back, this is going to be fun.

Crusader added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 2:07 pm

@Kaioshin,

[Tsuruya-san]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.[/Tsuruya-san]

Oh, Kaioshin. Just like you to accuse other people of the same things everyone else have been accusing you with, just to deflect accusations on yourself. Are you sure you aren’t actually a “Clear”? So nice of you to make my day with one of your typical joke accusations.

Gee, so let’s see. I’m not the one going around other people’s blogs flaming them for not liking a show as much as I do. Yet I’m the one who likes to whine all the time about what you do instead of minding my own business? C’mon, I’ve plenty of more important business to tend to with my time; it’s just that backing up my comrade Crusader against your trolling just happens to be one of them. I could care less if you have a go at me, but having a go at others? It’s the Allies against your one-man Axis, kid.

Well, I believe Crusader wouldn’t like it if I used his backyard as a battlefield again, so I’ll temper it with some of my own thoughts. So for a first thought, who the hell do you think you are to tell people like Crusader and DarkMirage not to expect what they expected from this series? Did you really think their expectations appeared out of thin air? No, indeed; it was Sunrise themselves who pitched Gundam 00 as a more “realistic” mecha series by tying in such real-world concerns of today like the Middle East, Sri Lanka, and the energy crisis. In sociology, the symbolic interactionism theory holds that people act according to how they perceive the situation; so accordingly, they perceived these aspects of this series as a pitch towards a Gundam 00 dealing with real-world concerns, and of course they will be disappointed with what turned out to be a cookie-cutter Gundam ideology-fest with 2-episode diversionary arcs, undeveloped cast, and upgrades up the wazoo for the Gundams every time they needed one.

I have no idea how your perception of this series is, but to keep it short, you don’t have a right to tell others how to think. My stand on this series is that “mediocre does not do justice to what could have been great”, and that’s it. Count yourself lucky that, unlike you, I’m not the kind of person to see the need to intervene in your personal backyard just because I don’t agree with your views.

Ascaloth added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 7:46 pm

I’d like to throw in some of my thoughts regarding Gundam 00, before I head off to see if my shiny new 2000-point Infiltrator marine list can survive a serving of Chaos. I’ll be the first to admit that, despite touting myself as having little to no expectations whenever I start watching anime, my recent preference for slice-of-life colors my perception of series I view. It’s a human thing, and that slight bias often subtly changes how we view shows, and how we eventually enjoy them. As an example, I watch CLANNAD for the slow development of Nagisa and Tomoya’s relationship, while Jason (Miao) watches it for the moe and exposed thighs.

When I started Gundam 00, I expected absolutely nothing (since I’ve learned that coming into a show with ANY expectations sometimes destroys the experience when things start going off-kilter), and so enjoyed the series on a casual level (which is a far cry from how I used to, being an ‘old’ SR geek). But I’d be lying if I’d claim that I didn’t notice the plot inconsistencies that appeared here and there (blame having a Lit degree and my editorial training) — some of which are noted here (and some other blogs). As an editor I’d normally nitpick, but I neither have the time nor the resources to do so. That’s why I find posts like what Crusader and Jason write amusing, since they often find those little stuff that I notice off-hand, though granted they often add more than a little vitriol when they DO see those flaws.

Flaws which, my good sir Kaiohshin, you seem to be flatly ignoring in your own entries on the series, which may reflect your particular bias on the show as a Gundam fan.

Crusader: Was I the only one tickled when Graham appeared in the Korozo mask? Plus Ali and Patrick! Now we have a blonde guy in a mask, a pilot who has too much luck, and an ex-terrorist who seems to love playing both sides against the middle so he can get that perfect opportunity to off himself (indirectly).

Myssa Rei added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 7:54 pm

Good lord some of the people commenting here need to clean the sand out of their pants. Chill out and have some tea or something…

Calawain added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 8:29 pm

that or people need to remember this series (no matter if you praise or hate it)is for entertainment purposes and most of the time doesn’t warrent long some what ‘indepth’ discussion… heck i do it sometimes but not often

any how… i can’t wait to see your post on the next episode

Tenryu added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 9:36 pm

Are people familiar with the concept of Sour Grapes? I think it applies to this situation quite adequately.

Kaioshin_Sama added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 9:56 pm

@Ascaloth & Kiaoshin
Cease fire NOW. I am in no mood crack skulls after seeing my Noe end up alone…Just please stop both you. Don’t try my patience more than you both already have, please.

@Myssa Rei
Oh good grief the Chaos infiltration army. Uh, bad time bad times. Though I have not seen the new rule set yet. Have fun agonizing over your deployment, it should not be too hard you get to see the other guy’s well before you plunk down your first squad.

It was good to hear that Ali and Patrick were good and well, though Graham with mask gives me mixed feelings. On the one hand the mask looks a bit silly though i coud be imposing. I have no idea how he made it out but okay since he lost most of his buddies I wonder if we are going to see a more vengeful Graham next season. This time since I know what to expect I want to see Soma bond with her Erstaz Dad Sergei and I hope Patrick and Katie do more things together. I have every confidence that Ali will be the same old bastard that I know and praise.

@Calawain
Yeah hard to believe we are discussing a work of fiction.

@Tenryu
It will be up after the True Tears post, and I hope you will like it.

Crusader added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 10:00 pm

“that or people need to remember this series (no matter if you praise or hate it)is for entertainment purposes and most of the time doesn’t warrent long some what ‘indepth’ discussion… heck i do it sometimes but not often”

That’s pretty much what I feel. The series did kind wasted a lot of potential and could have done a lot more(Especially that terrorist attack on the bus). But whatever, I tend to not think too much, since it’s gundam after all. As I get some decent action of mechs beating the shit out of each other and storyline that is not too terrible then I’m satisfied (As long it doesn’t turn into GSD *shudders*).

Kururu added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 10:21 pm

@Crusader: I will respect your request as you wish. I had intented to all along because I still remember you stating this last time. I was more arguing for a stop to the fighting as opposed to trying to flame the guy but it may hae come across that way. I’m no troll believe me, I speak what I believe, nothing more, same as you.

Anyway I’m up in the air on the mask. I haven’t really gotten a good look at it yet so I don’t know what to think.

And of course there a lot of things I thought could have been done better up to this point. I would have liked to know more about Wang Liu Min’s backstory and what brought her to Celestial Being. I would have liked the terrorist arc to go somewhere other than just leading Setsuna to Marina. I would have liked to know more about Tieria’s background. I would have liked to know more about Aeolia Schenberg’s ambitions.

Most of my misgivings though are of the kind I feel will or at least can be addressed in the second season though, which is why I’ve chosen to what to pass judgement on them as Myssa Rei notes I have (I won’t deny it, nor that it’s not deliberate). I like to wait until the definitive end to a series to go over flaws that I think can be addressed and those that can will be dealt with immediately. Once that time comes believe me people you will hear a lot more of where I felt the series could have improved or where it faltered etc.

Kaioshin_Sama added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 10:24 pm

I don’t see what sour grapes have to do with anything here. ^_^

Anyway, sorry about that, Crusader. About Graham’s mask, it looks to me like the kind of mask that burns patient wear.

Ascaloth added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 10:33 pm

Well.

I lol’d.

Please continue to provide the community with such amusing entertainment.

relevant added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 10:36 pm

Sour Grapes is the fact that some people wanted politics and realism and it didn’t materialize, so I believe they sought to denigrate the series to save face in their mistaken identification of the core themes.

The very simplified explanation is that they wanted something, couldn’t have it, and therefore deemed it to be unworthy of their efforts by mocking it despite it’s other merits.

It’s one of Aesop’s fairy tales about morality by the way, “The Fox And The Grapes”.

Kaioshin_Sama added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 10:48 pm

I think the whole idea that ‘people expected politics’ is plain out wrong. No. People came to see robots fight it out. The politics are the backdrop, the drama is the centerpiece. Tell me how that has changed in all the Gundam shows so far, because it hasn’t.

Also, I tend to believe (apparently correctly so from all the criticism aimed at the show), that those who criticize are the ones who delve into it the most. Gundam shows, hell, mecha in general are not meant for heavyhanded, realistic military politics. I mean, how would Metal Gear Solid have turned out if it was truly realistic, eh? Something beyond boring?

Shippoyasha added these pithy words on Mar 29 08 at 11:25 pm

Amen.

Tomino added these pithy words on Mar 30 08 at 2:58 am

Thank you for the explanation Crusader. I’ve been reading your rather entertaining blog post for quite sometime, and I was curious as to why you criticise the Gundam so much. Now I know.

Though I wouldn’t argue with you on the matters of Miss Sumeragi and related combat matters; I do have to point out that unlike every modern army where no individual solider yields significant power, Gundams are dramatically different since every single one of them is an army in its own right. Thus unlike regular soldiers, Gundam pilots not only want to fulfil their desires, but they also have capacity to do so.

What I do disagree with, is the political and financial aspect of your criticism. True, political dimension is underdeveloped to say the least, but it’s not as ludicrous as you make it appear. To start off, your view of politics as zero-sum game is already a problem. There is equally valid view that politics is in fact a positive sum game which is what I believe the creators of the series are trying to drive home. If I understood the plot correctly, CB is not trying to eliminate every single small conflict by directly intervening – though they do plenty of that to – rather they are trying to present the Three with a threat and in that way to unite them. The writers may have borrowed the idea from the WWII and I wonder if the end result would be the same (i.e. continuation of Cold War after CB is defeated.)

As for how Corner got the support – or dominance – of the UN, well, given he was the one who showered the Three with GN-X’s, provided intelligence, and (probably) financial assets it’s no wonder he had influence in the UN, though I doubt that his influence is actually that great. (We still don’t know the full extent of his political power.)

The financial side of CB operations – though the least explored in the series – is actually the most convincing. Unlike you’ve mentioned, I believe that the members of the CB would not suffer from the CB’s activities. Quite the contrary, they would prosper because for one they new in advance about a major political-military-economic event which gives them plentiful opportunity to profit from markets (including stock markets). That is of course if they where not rich to begin with. But it seems that CB members had plenty of fund (and physical assets) to begin with. Unfortunately, as you said, the series have not explained the precise origin of the members’ wealth, so it’s probably premature to criticise the CB for hypocrisy on financial grounds.

Lastly, I don’t find the ideology of CB all that offensive or objectionable. Although you may not think so, the members of the Three also fight for ideology. Most importantly idea they seem to have is that they must protect or serve their country which is a notion of nationalism - an ideology. Since I don’t see the soldiers of the Three saying “Go to hell, you can take my pay check, but I’m not going to fight Gundams since I know I’ll end up in a coffin”; I doubt they are in the army for the money. They also don’t seem to enjoy the fighting like Ali does. Then Nationalism remains the most plausible explanation behind the motivation of the soldiers of the Three. (Revenge is viable for a rather small proportion of the UN army; also the original CB didn’t attack civilian targets so the idea of protecting one’s family is farfetched). CB also fights for ideology, only a different one. They are perhaps more deserving of the praise because unlike to UN army, the CB actually questions their ideology, their motivation, etc.

There, it’s all done. I do know that much of the above ideas are underdeveloped and have powerful counterarguments, but please try not to dismiss it outright like I don’t dismiss your writing.

Cheers

Deckard added these pithy words on Mar 30 08 at 3:56 am

Watched the show for the fireworks. Expectations for real politics was thrown out the window within 10 episodes.

and Crusader, i find your style of writing to be most entertaining. dont ever deviate from it no matter what others say.

The Emperor protects.

Setsuna-san added these pithy words on Mar 30 08 at 4:35 am

Actually Crusader, I was the one deploying the Loyalist infiltrating army, and I was expecting heavy Death Guard opposition (turns out the guy was a Black Legion player which was in MANY ways far worse)… Which is why I was a little relieved that my opponent called a raincheck on the match, and move it to April 5. More time to streamline and test my DIY Chapter list.

Back to the topic. Temper-temper, and let’s at least keep this discussion within the realms of semi-civilized debate. All parties spoke their piece, gave sound argument and counter-arguments, but let’s not let our passions run away too much.

As always, let’s see the Crusader’s final thoughts on the penultimate episode of Gundam 00 (Jason, DarkMirage, and Kaioh seem to have theirs up already).

Myssa Rei added these pithy words on Mar 30 08 at 5:19 am

well, a Char clone appears. it’s none other than Graham Aker. haha. Lockon is totally dead. I was hoping for him to be alive somehow… oh well…

Corner’s ego is like Le Creuset, don’t you think? But the latter is rather more psychotic. LOL!

I hope, you’ll consider to blog Season 2 starting in October, Crusader.

Thank you for blogging Gundam 00 Season 1.

rollchan added these pithy words on Mar 30 08 at 6:14 am

I’m going to be honest. This was my first gundam series that I have watched on the recommendation of my friend. I enjoyed the series, it wasnt as bad or painful as I thought it was going to be. In fact, it was the opposite, I thought the series was well drawn and the plot is good.

frog212 added these pithy words on Mar 30 08 at 12:02 pm

@frog212: you should try to watch Zeta Gundam. Its more tragic and interesting. Although, well, I don’t mind the animation because it was a 1985 anime. hehehe. Its one of the best stories ever told by Tomino in the Universal Century (UC) timeline.

rollchan added these pithy words on Mar 30 08 at 5:35 pm

@relevant
I hope you are talking about the post and are not trying to egg them on…

@Shippoyasha
Different people watch different series expecting different things. The political backdrop could have been interesting but that fell apart. The Mecha fights remain cool, but there are times when the context is just lost, like Graham’s last charge. If my memory serves me correctly Zeta Gundam had some pretty heavy stuff and there the mecha fights were woven neatly with the Titan/AEUG/Axis Zeon scheming.

Metal Gear Solid was built of Kojima’s vision, Gundam does have a legacy of being able to neatly weave politics and mecha together. As it stands I still can’t understand the whole story of Metal Gear…I doubt there is anyone other than Kojima who knows the whole story.

@Deckard
I do not think that they really have given credit to Corner for giving them the GN-Xs Lagna Harvey came from almost nowhere and even Corner seemed a bit surprised when the Trinities first came on. I still think Lagna was playing his own games and the Corner was able to take advantage of Lagna.

Contrary to most guys proclaiming to join the military for nationalism, there are plenty who joined for the chance to go to college, or simply because they couldn’t find work elsewhere. I have met guys who joined during peacetime who refused to go places outright. If pushed hard enough even the most veteran soldier would consider deserting. It’s not the kind of blind idealism or belief in one’s country. It’s not 100% selflessness. Even within the US military there are groans of how the republic was not what it once was or how we imagined it. We serve because at some level we care, but how much we care varies from guy to the next. We do not all believe that what we are being asked to do now is 100% right, but we follow because we hope that the situation will get better. Tieria and Setsuna fight at times just to show that they are relevant, most soldiers would be against fighting and dying merely to prove a point. Fighting merely to prove a point is fanatcism, and professionals are as a rule not fanatics.

My expectations for the second half have been significantly lowered, all I want now is to see the Ali kill streak continue and to see where the UN blokes go. If Ribbons proves himself the greatest villain in all of Gundam I will be pleasantly surprised, but as it stand I just want him to be better than Corner.

@Setsuna-san
Thanks, should have thrown out my initial expectations early on instead of holding out hope in vain.

@Myssa
Ah a loyalist infiltration army, well those are certainly rare. I just remember how hard it was fighting Alpha Legion with static Tau. Seems that Black Legion is getting really pimped out these days, well its all good. At least the Defiler is not longer used as an artillery piece…indirect fire was a pain.

@rollchan
Yes he is dead and I hope he stays that way there can only be one masked character and it is Graham.

@frog212
I started out with Wing and then went back to the older stuff, nevertheless if you decide to go back one of these days you might see some faults here and there but it will be your first mecha love.

Crusader added these pithy words on Mar 30 08 at 5:43 pm

I have to disagree with the whole ‘politics fell apart’ thing, because Celestial Being had way too many intangibles going for and against them. For one, Corner’s own organization is still very much a mystery and as for the ineptitude of the UN forces, it’s not easy to pinpoint how superior the real GN drives in terms of space stealth and propulsion compared to the other methods (including the fake GN drives). As for the political situation, I can see how they simplified a lot of things, but in the end, it’s just the overt, public face of the massive arms buildup that was targeted, not the actual behind the scenes matter of it all.

That, and Celestial Being hardly succeeded in the most straightforward way at all. All their tactics was basically riding on the retaliatory tactics of the more powerful world nations and from the look of the end of things, it has worked to a degree with the new Earth Federation formation.

Also, the thing with Gundam 00 is that it strikes me as a bit prequel-ish. Most Gundam shows start off with very well defined groups. Rebels/Empire or Spacies/Earthlings. In Gundam 00, all that was basically formative and overall, I think you have to look past the specificities of real life politics to see where the politics regarding mobile suits at least is concerned.

I can understand the criticism actually, because many Gundam shows do take it slower (even the rocket-propelled speed of developments in Gundam Wing was more methodical than 00’s), but I think it depends on the willingness of viewers to set that aside and at least assume what is going on here.

Because in the end, we still know very little of what truly went behind the scenes and why Celestial Being still wants to change the world even after the events in episode 25.

Shippoyasha added these pithy words on Mar 30 08 at 10:55 pm

>> Not every director, every scriptwriter might have served for long-term in the military before, so you can expect discrepancies here and there.

Hideo Kojima hired a military consultant, hell, even Tsukasa Hojo was required to get some shooting lesson in the police station to get a grasp on firearm physics before drawing City Hunter.

Even if scriptwriters may not be able to afford that, there are still plenty of war movies like “Platoon” (Oliver Stone actually served in Vietnam) and “Das Boot” or series like “Tour of Duty” or “Band of Brothers” to give them a grasp of what human drama in war situation would be like.

But I guess this is too much to ask to japanese anime staffs.

Sheba added these pithy words on Apr 02 08 at 3:03 am

I don’t know, I think that you miss the point a bit in your analysys of the series, that, and your own life experiences and political views have to do with it as well. The main point against your take in its politics is the thinking that they intend to solve all of the world’s problems, or causes of war (Blood diamonds, religions, drugs, whatever), but rather create an enviroment where war is not possible. This does not however solve probably any of the worlds problems, but forces people to talk things over at least. Not to mention that the “Erradication of war” agenda can easily be turned into a Justice one later.

I would like to see some examples of changing the world in non violent ways, as well, because where I sit from, with the power of the internet at my command, I fail to see any examples of lasting change brought about by non violence that wasnt backed by a stick or the promise of one. Even Ghandi, the poster child for that movement, stated that non violence is more about getting violented on to make the other guy look bad than about your point. Justice and being right have always taken second base in the world to firepower, which as a self professed soldier you should understand.

I find it risible that you, a soldier, in, I assume, the US of A Military would say something like this: “instead of trying to change the world in non-violent ways opt for force instead. They seek to enforce their will on the rest of the world who never asked them to kill for the sake of peace. They want to change the world because they think that they know better, and this, to me, is arrogant and unappealing.” while basically doing, well, exactly that. I guess hypocresy is in no short supply, and a “It’s not the same at all, we decided to bring them peace and democracy and by God they will like it if we have to kill every single one of them” variation will follow, but I digress.

It is not the stated purpose of CB to “solve all of the worlds problems” and from what I see, they do not intend to, but rather to equate God as an enforcer of Morality. And just like God, they don’t necessarily have to be particularly moral in going about it, after all, they determine morality. I would take this to be the basis of the Celestial Being name and all the religious codenames.

As for the rest, you seem to want too many answers straight off the bat, from the show it’s possible to garner that they have mining stations (I’ll assume that the “solar reactors” are H3 fission reactors like the UC Gundam ones that require a mining facility in Jupiter). And it would be hard to say that they arent under Schenbergs thumb.

Finally I would answer to your conclusion that, as far as Gundam shows go, this one doesn’t have a particularly huge disparity between the Gundam side and the non gundam side, I find it hard to believe that you would say there is a huge disparity in this, where the UN comes up with units that are about equal to the Gundams at the drop of a hat upon getting the reactors, while praising the UC Gundams that tended to be impervious to everything, and unmatched by anything sans the commander unit at the end of the show (Sans maybe Camilles non Gundamium one at the start of Z).

Ill agree with Sumeragi’s incompetence though.

In the end, you are free to like or dislike whatever you want, but I think you put too much of your own wants and expectations against what the show actually is, and delivers. I find that a lot of it has been well reasoned, and the developments are mostly credible. It is hardly perfect, but it is pretty good.

And Im relieved that people tend to die sort of often. you are a soldier, you should know, people die. Interesting pilots die too. A nice UC throwback.

Sei added these pithy words on Apr 09 08 at 9:24 am

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Why I Don’t Like Gundam 00 as Much as Other People