If he immediately advances on Hiromi now that the way is cleared, I hope that unhappiness greats him. Such a person doesn’t deserve Noe.

Noe is Moe. Sieg Noe

Being more aware, more take-charge (I thought it was so adorable when she said “Say it clearly, that you like me”) especially in comparison with Shin, that’s one of the things that… make Noe moe.

You say it is a two way street, I don’t think it is that since after all not getting equipment because of political disputes does not make my life easier. Nor does dragging out budget approvals since my wages have not kept up with inflation. I am more than willing to patiently wait for all these things to be approved and sent my way, but I cannot help but ask if things moved a bit faster on the other end. Given that political activity is generally restricted and frowned upon in most cases what little recourse the military has is in our flag officers who can be overruled at will by a Defense Secretary, though thankfully now we have a gentleman who is going to listen. There are times when I think that political expediences have taken priority over military strategy, I don’t think that I am wrong in this regard.

I never meant that we soldiers have the right to judge, but we do at times face a moral dilemma where the opportunity of vigilante justice is much more prevalent. The power to be judge, jury, and executioner is very tempting for us as it is for all people. Perhaps you think that all men are good and that if left alone we will do no harm to one another. I know what a breakdown in social order entails and I must say that with no civil order there is little to stop men of ambition and desire to run rough shod over one another. So yes I think that humans are creatures capable of great evil and there are days when the thought of just applying the Stalinist maxim of death solving all problems has crossed my mind. I am familiar with the consequences of having a patriarchal society where men get to put their feet down, I must say that I find it abhorrent and backward. I know full well what it means to have the husband being utterly dominant and while you may decry letting the wife have her way as being whipped then so be it.

As a scientist I am more than sure that no decision can ever be made in a vacuum, and for every act of stupidity someone somewhere is going to pay for it though not necessarily just one or even some one you know. If I believed any thing else than that there is nothing in this world as sure as the glitter of gold and the treachery of men then if called upon to open fire I might hesitate and get me and all my mates killed. The nature of my profession dictates that I adopt a more cynical approach in viewing the rest of humanity. I have to believe that women are better than me because it is unacceptable under most circumstances to shot women, men on the other hand do at times operate weapons pointed in my general direction, hence men are worms. If I believed that men were all saints and good people I would have done well to be a priest instead of a soldier.

I am no saint I have been called upon to if need be to shoot my fellow man if the situation dictates that I must. If I was unsure about my ability to shoot my fellow man then I do not belong behind a trigger. Since I am placed behind a trigger I am expected to use it from time to time. So yes I would probably shoot you, your friends, Shin-chan, Japanese men, and the world population first and ask questions later in the event of war. I am no policeman I don’t have to wait until you get within 8 feet and ascertain that your are a threat and to use deadly force. That is why it is the duty of the civilian to make sure that war happens rarely if at all. I hope you are up to the challenge.

It seems like we’ve strayed away from our original topic, but fine, I’ll play along. You are indeed providing a service to civilians by fighting for their freedom, but civilians are also providing a service to you by doing what they do. It’s not like you are self-sufficient and can survive without the help of civilians - it’s a two-way dependence. Civilians will also have their own honor codex and might feel like you are not aspiring to fulfill it, but they would never demand of you to do that or refuse to provide the service they provide based on that. To be more specific, a doctor might feel like you are recklessly endangering your health which goes contrary to his beliefs, but that doesn’t mean he will refuse to heal you.

Then again, you say a soldier has the right to judge for himself whether to pull the trigger on a rapist or a wife beater. Unless it’s self-defense, such an action is against the law, but still I wouldn’t condemn a soldier for sparing future human lives. But Shin-chan is not a rapist, or a wife-beater, or a criminal, or a malicious individual. He certainly aspires to be a likable law-abiding bloke. He doesn’t hurt people intentionally. He’s far from perfect, but in my eyes he is just a normal guy and even perhaps more sensitive and considerate than the average guy I know. If you would choose to pull the trigger on such an individual then probably you would pull the trigger on me and most of my friends and for that matter - most of the earth’s population (or, to be less general - the whole Japanese male population, which you suggested were a little better than worms).

Anyway, I guess it’s normal for fans of a certain character (in this case Noe) to get angry at Shin for causing her pain, but I know those fans do not really believe he should die. It’s probably the case with you too.

When I said “putting your foot down” I meant making a decision that depends on you alone, so the only one to blame if you are unsuccessful is yourself. It’s true, a good husband will always put his family ahead of his dreams, but a good wife will always support and encourage her husband’s dreams(and he should do the same for her). A good wife will never exploit the good will of her husband to put his family ahead of himself to fulfill her selfish desires.

@Dirian
You are presuming too many things about Shin when you are throwing all those accusations. You are assuming that “all the while he knew exactly like he felt”, whereas he doesn’t. He’s pretty confused when it comes to his own feelings. He knows he feels something for Hiromi, whether it is love or a brotherly desire to protect her(which he displayed in the last episode). He feels good when he is with Noe and likes spending time with her. Besides, Hiromi and his mother further added to his confusion by putting the idea that she is his sister and Hiromi saying that she likes Jun. So, Shin who cares for Hiromi, arranged this deal for her to go out with Jun if he goes out with Noe. This is definitely not a good idea, and I acknowledge that, don’t get me wrong. But Shin is not a selfish individual, he is genuinely trying to do the right thing, though due to external circumstances and his own wavering nature(he is an artist after all, and they are known to be fickle) he doesn’t always use his best judgment.

Could he do things better? Sure. Does he deserve to be treated like scum? Definitely not! You are perhaps forgetting that Makoto purposefully fooled around with many different girls, got a girl pregnant and decided to abandon her. Now, how does anything Shin did remotely resemble that?

Anyway, I realize that defending him is probably a futile effort. Oh, and the fact that he is a guy definitely plays against him. I’ve never seen people wanting a girl to die because she hurt a guy’s feelings or something like that. In this very show, Hiromi herself has done some things that are much more despicable than Shin, but still nobody wants to kill her. There is definitely gender bias in anime nowadays and it is much more apparent in romance shows.

In my opinion, whether he ends up with Noe or Hiromi or no one(anyone else hoping for no one at this point?), I think the events of this episode were necessary.

Stripey has a point that I brought up when Shin first confessed, in that the relationship always had this small taint of being a reflexive rebound after finding out Hiromi is his sister. Given the proximity to the Ai-chan kiss the parallels were pretty clear, and concerned me quite alot.

Given that(I could have been wrong about the deliberate parallel but one exists nonetheless), I think that in any Noe x Shin ending it would be absolutely necessary for Shin and Hiromi both to come to terms with their feelings before the cast as a whole could move on, and for that to happen Shin and Hiromi have to be HONEST to each other about their feelings. If that’s true then of course we need to resolve Hiromi’s barriers and she and Shin must confess to each other how they’ve felt.

Of course that is absolutely necessary in a Hiromi x Shin ending as well, but that’s kinda my point. It was necessary regardless. If Shin sides with Noe now, it will be because he has real feelings for her and she isn’t just some rebound. If he sides with Hiromi it will be because both are finally being honest with themselves.

Until we know which he chooses, we can’t come down on him for wavering I don’t think(though I suspect it will be Hiromi afterall. I’m just saying that a Noe ending is still very possible, and very plausible).

That being said, if Shin does just abandon Noe full tilt with little to no regard for her feelings, then yes Darwin I consider him to be as bad as Makoto. It would prove that all this time he was merely using Noe as a rebound, and she deserves much better than that. He wouldn’t be a bastard because he never really loved her, but because having never loved her he nevertheless jumped through tons of hoops to convince her that he had feelings for her and that they were genuine all while knowing exactly how he felt.

You guys can discuss all you want about inter-gender relationship dynamics, but that doesn’t change the fact that his actions, if they are as I’ve outlined above, are callous, selfish, and quite frankly despicable, and would be if it was a female character leading on a male character. Gender doesn’t play into it.

I have high standards for civilians, I don’t expect many if any to live up to them, but I do expect such men who refuse to and do not bear arms for the sake of their people to aspire to them.

You can put your foot down, but that doesn’t mean you will win. Sure it is a man’s right to do something incredibly stupid, but there is always a cost to his family. In my experience one a man has a child he is far less inclined to do something rash, if he is it is the mother who has to remind him of his fatherly responsibilities. Yes he may still have dreams, but he will more often or not sacrifice his dreams so that he can be there to provide for his kids and help them exceed even his greatest feats.

As for what culture I come from, it is a western-style patriarchal society. That doesn’t mean the man of the family always has the last word in an argument, but his opinions are always respected by his wife and he respects his wife’s opinions. I know from experience, you don’t need to apply physical violence to win an argument, you simply have to “put your foot down”. Of course, sometimes you have to make compromises, but if you let your wife win every argument, then by the time you are 50, you will be a “whipped dog” and your opinions will be worth nothing. Besides, it is a man’s right (actually a human’s right) to be “stupid” sometimes as long as you don’t endanger anybody else or yourself more than a “reasonable” amount.

But I digress, I don’t think we need to get into the whole “gender roles” argument. Concerning Shin-chan, he certainly did those things you mentioned, and you are right, perhaps he was wrong, perhaps I would have done things differently. My point is none of those things warrant the amount of hate I see for him in some people’s posts. They are not “evil” or irreversible in any way. You treat Shin as you would treat a soldier, but he is NOT a soldier. It is unrealistic to expect him to behave like one, and nobody is going to die from the results if his indecisiveness.

If you cannot cut him any slack based on that, then apparently you have ridiculously high standards for men in general - they must behave like soldiers and ascribe to some “masculine ideal” you have in your mind. I guess I can see why as a soldier you would be more demanding, but sometimes you express a ridiculous amount of gender bias.

@darwin
Since when has the average Japanese Anime Doormat become the be all end all of the masculine ideal? It is rare indeed that they even rise to the level of worm let a alone human (Makoto, Shinji, Keitaro, etc.). Japan is a male dominated culture that is made up of effeminate men who keep endeavor to keep their women even lower than them simply to keep a facade of masculinity. After all what other modern country would let their ministers refer to women as birthing machines?

Perhaps you hail form a different culture than I. In my experience in dealing with long married couples in my gaming circles, I have learned that husbands have learned to pick their battles and more often than not it was harder for them to let their hair brained schemes go, and it was usually the good sense of their wives that prevented them from doing something they admit years later, was stupid. If they subscribed to your version of masculinity they would not have been married for long, marriage is about compromising for the sake your family, not about gratification of your own dreams. Most of these husbands had the good sense to marry a woman who by all accounts was smarter, and hence while they were 40-50 and still feeling like 21 their spouse of many years usually prevented them from doing what 21 year olds do. In my opinion it is harder for men to accept that they are not as young as they once were, and hence come up with schemes to try and feel young again.

Feel free to argue with your wife when you have the chance, just be warned that it is an exercise in futility if you wish to preserve your happy marriage. In my opinion, and experience men give up arguing far sooner than women because men have the instinct to simply resort to fisticuffs when men argue with men. If you are arguing with a woman, hitting her and resolving it the manly way is simply untenable and will get you arrested in any law abiding society. Even my mother can carry an argument long after I have given up, my dad on the other hand has written off trying to out last her in a war of words. Indeed it is not the right way to think, but then again what is? It’s not about who is right, but rather how much of your marriage do you want to spend arguing?

Did Shin-chan not confess to Noe when he was less than fully committed? Was it not Shin-chan who suggested that Jun date Hiromi in exchange for him to date Noe? If he was a man he would have never been so foolish as to suggest it, and would have had the resolve to commit to Hiromi from the outset instead of dallying with Noe only to break her heart in the end. As a soldier I cannot help but hate Shin-chan for his indecisiveness. It is indecisiveness that gets guys like me killed while the freaking officer or politician cannot commit to a course of action and simply tries to please every one and failing.

You may want to cut Shin-chan some slack, but I cannot and will not.

I’ve always found the bit about the wife being always right an ill-placed gender humor joke, which has no real basis in reality. It’s just being reinforced in the media and by husbands who are constantly being whipped by their wifes. What I find shocking is that there are men who think that this is the right way to think, i.e. the woman being always right. If you would rather discard your pride as a man and tatter to your wife’s every desire no matter whether it’s reasonable or not, then you will be the one to have an “interesting life”.

In the end, blaming Shin for Noe’s hardships seems childish to me at best, since in the real world you don’t always get what you want and you cannot always be happy. So what if she doesn’t get “the bastard” in the end, it doesn’t mean she won’t find someone better for her in the end. Besides, Shin hasn’t really done anything to hurt her intentionally - he always treated her with kindness and respect. I feel the same level of hate towards him as towards Makoto of School Days, even though the two of them are different as night and day.

In the end, I do sympathize with Noe, but mostly because of her hard past. Everything Shin has supposedly done to her in this series pales in comparison. I’m not asking anybody to change their opinion or anything, I just wish to see some reasonable arguments for this excessive Shin-hate.

Also, I sense it too. I think something big’s going to happen anytime soon. They just can’t end it like this. A B-O-R-I-N-G ShinxHiromi cheesy finale. If that’s what’s waiting for us in the end, then this show isn’t what I thought it was. I just wish they’ll put the spotlight on Noe later on since she’s the only one brightening this show for me.

Don’t you realize how ridiculous all of this sounds? Hating a guy just because he doesn’t love your favorite girl? In all fairness, if you hate the guy so much, why do you want him to end up with Noe in the first place. It might seem like no guy is good for her by the way you glorify her very existence.

I mean, I like Noe, but I don’t see why everybody is getting so worked up over her and all. I really hate this kind of mentality that the girl is always right and she deserves to be smothered with affection and servitude, while the guy is always wrong and should tatter to her every wish. Seriously, I get really worked up when I see such blatant gender discrimination in some people’s comments.

OK, rant over!

@Stripey
Shin-chan is BAKA. I hope Jun kicks his ass for doing that to poor Noe. Still its not over yet and Hiromi may yet snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Nevertheless you cruel tanuki leave Jibeta alone, Noe will need him too when the storm hits.

@Impz
I wouldn’t hold it against Jun nii to comfort his beloved Noe, but I am hoping that Jun will be the one to make Shin-chan suffer for his insolence at blowing off Noe like that and hurting her so deeply.

@Gravmech
I think the sea wall scene was cute, becuase now that Noe was so greviuously hurt, it was time for Shin-chan to feel some pain. Sadly Noe being the glorious woman that she is did not use brute force to put Shin-chan in his place. I am hoping Jun will be the one to beat Shin-chan to bloody pulp.

@Calawain
Hey Shin-chan and Hiromi might still be siblings, we still don’t know why Mrs. Nakagami was being such a hateful wench. For all we know that while Mr. Nakagami is not Hiromi’s father, that does not mean Mr. Yuasa is not Shin-chan’s dad too…

There is still hope and now that Hiromi has no more crutches she will feel the full force of Noe. As for Aiko, either she comes to her good senses and goes back to Nobuse or Nobuse finally breaks and helps Jun nii kick Shin-chan’s ass.

@woo
Noe is no more contrived moe than Hiromi is contrived tragedy. Emo-girls are a dime a dozen, but there is only one Noe in all of anime, after all who else has a love of flying and chickens?

@Youko
I hope your are right comrade. I hope your right. Noe is moe. Seig Noe.

@Shirukii
Yeah I hope that in the event of a Hiromi victory that she proves to be likable as a person. I want her to be able to fly and for Noe to give Hiromi her wings. If Hiromi remains as she is I will never ever accept ShinxHiromi as a decent ending.

I hope that the real story behind Mrs. Nakagami and Mrs. Yuasa is going to be big and send ripples that affect Shin and Hiromi…sure Mr. Nakagami is not Hiromi’s dad, but is he Shin’s?