@Shippoyasha
Er, I didn’t mean to be condescending. There wasn’t much of another way that I could put what I meant to say, or at least, at the time when I was writing the reply. And well, I suppose if you think that it’s not about human rights then yeah, that’s your opinion too, nothing wrong with that. I do think it is more of Jun using Hiromi than otherwise, but to each their own. I’d rather not convince you about how her methods work and their effects, because in the end it still boils down to our difference in opinion, and as it would seem, we disagree on many points already (perhaps this being the only agreeable point so far lol), so it isn’t my place to do so.

Again, I did not mean to be condescending, nor did I mean to lecture anyone. Just trying to point out my own thoughts and discuss them in relation to other people’s thoughts. I’m sorry if I have offended you, or anyone else, while trying to discuss your opinions in relation to mine. And before Celesti… I mean, Crusader, intervenes, I will stop here for this matter, having said enough on my part.

Like I said, if Hiromi is just going to act disingenuous about everything and expect things to actually work out, then I only think there’s going to be trouble. Then again, her half-sibling status with Shin naturally complicates things and that’s okay. But what’s not okay is how she is using Jun (you can argue it’s the vice versa) as a proxy and it just isn’t playing out right. Yes, I am complaining about her method, but that tends to bleed into the true intentions no matter how pure they can get. And let’s not get into whether I actually believe it’s ‘right’ or not. You convince me how this isn’t only complicating things and actually helping her. The show isn’t doing that either so I guess I’m right as far as I’m concerned from the way I see it.

And as far as I’m concerned, Hiromi would probably be better off staying away from this trainwreck of a romantic development. And I would rather not get lectured on how I’m being a Nazi about this, Cipher. I get it.

1) We’re all assuming Hiromi’s supposed love for Jun is a smokescreen to hide from her real feelings for Shin. Given that, the effect of Jun abandoning her should Shin abandon his part of the deal, while cold and heartless, isn’t going to have the same devastating impact on Hiromi as Shin’s abandonment will have on Noe. Still wrong, but impact wise I almost can’t fault Jun for abandoning a relationship where NEITHER party feels anything real as opposed to Shin breaking Noe’s heart the second his “first choice” suddenly becomes viable again.

I mean logically of course you’re entirely right, Jun being willing to dump Hiromi in a heartbeat as if it means nothing is as bad as what we all suppose Shin is going to do, but this is not just a matter of logic, and deep down I find Shin’s abandonment the worse act(assuming it happens full force with no second thoughts like I said.

2) Given how I’m sorta thinking it might play out, Hiromi would leave Jun and confess full fledged to Shin the second she finds out they aren’t related or just plain can’t stand to see him with someone else anymore(ala Mao). In that case, if they both just abandon their respective Isuragis in a headlong rush for each other, then however much we might despise Jun for being capable of abandoning Hiromi like it’s nothing, if he doesn’t actually do it, while Shin does, then the one whose more in the wrong here is clear.

But again, this is all assuming that it basically plays out like “Shin dates Noe for awhile because Hiromi is out of contention, finds out she’s attainable and dumps Noe like the consolation prize she was and rushes headlong into Hiromi’s waiting incestuous(?) arms for FILTHY UNCHRISTIAN SEX”, which is totally probable and if it goes down like that then I don’t care what his feelings are, his actions would be unforgivable, and the only thing that makes him better than Makoto is that I’d at least believe his feelings for Hiromi were legit as opposed to Makoto who just let his dick do the leading and went where ever he thought he could score(and to be fair, that’s a pretty large distinction. Going out with a girl as a rebound and then abandoning her for your true love as opposed to sleeping with anything that moves is an entire world of difference).

But you know what? This show is a great mix of both the predictable and the unpredictable elements, and while it’s possible it could play out exactly like that, I think it’s a worse case scenario and I’m probably giving everyone involved way too little credit(and completely discounting how the Ai-chan scenario will play out).

But even then, if Shin has any real feelings for Noe at all, then I don’t see how he can help being conflicted if/when Hiromi suddenly becomes available again. I agree it’s unfair to both of them to be half-hearted in his attentions, and certainly unsightly, but well again that’s a logical judgment and matters of the heart are rarely completely(or even mostly) logical. If he does like Noe, or truly come to like/lover her, then it would be just as logical to tell Hiromi that while he loves her she waited too long and he’s in a relationship with someone he likes so too bad so sad for Hiromi. That would be the best outcome(purely from my perspective), but if he DOES end up with Hiromi, and yet develops real feelings for Noe, then to just suddenly switch like that would either prove he never had feelings for her at all(contradiction with what I just said) or be rather unrealistic in a series that has been noted by a few for it’s more accurate than usual portrayal of young love. Even if he chooses Noe I’d think he’ll be more than a tad rocked whenever Hiromi comes clean.

But then let’s look at how the Ai-chan thing plays out(I don’t want to place any bets on this one. Even if I think she sadly has no chance, how this scenario is going to play out is really and truly up in the air). I would wager that finding out Hiromi likes him will be at least as huge a shock as finding out Ai-chan likes him, so I would guess he’ll probably react somewhat similarly when the time comes, and can at the least provide some good foreshadowing and give a true test of Shin’s character.

Of course he could turn Ai-chan down in an instant cause he doesn’t really like her romantically(ah but will her confession awaken feelings?), and therefore it bears not at all on how he’ll react should Hiromi come clean, but then maybe it will give a good bit of foreshadowing.

Much as I want to peg a Shin x Hiromi ending right now, even though it’s not the ending I’d prefer, everything is still very much up in the air and well, the last time I thought I had an ending pegged I was sure the Patriots were going to blow the Giants out of the water and that didn’t end like I expected it either.

As for her methods, well again, disagreeing with her approach is fine, since it’s a matter of personal opinion. I just don’t agree with people who outright state that she’s wrong in her approach, because there is no ‘100% correct’ approach in love, and without that, it is impossible to judge whether her actions are right or wrong. (Yeah, to me, “I disagree with her feelings” and “Her feelings are wrong” are two different statements.)

I didn’t really get into how Hiromi having feelings is correct or ‘right’. It’s just that she is doing this via subversion and the cloak and dagger approach and it’s just not working. Noe’s brother basically blackmailing everyone, Noe forcing Shin to play along with a game (I seriously doubt the relationship potential is there. It’s like a play-date. I had those with girls in the past but it never got serious) and of course, Ai just losing it and confessing almost too outright.

It’s just that whatever these girls are feeling, they’re just making it hard on themselves. Either that, or they are confused as to what exactly they are aiming for. If that all leads to Shin, then oh boy..

Interestingly, I note that in all this, no one has said how they would despise Jun with similar measure if he decides to ditch Hiromi. If anything, Jun is the one more likely to be indifferent when he abandons his proxy love. To excuse that possible action of his due to his love for Noe would mean that Shinichiro too can be pardoned due to his love for Hiromi.

One could argue that Ai-chan knows all about unrequited love which is why she’s sick of sitting on the sidelines lying to herself and Nobuse when he’s not the one she likes, and when the one she DOES like is as thick as a post. She’s letting him in know in no uncertain terms her feelings, and whether out of desperation or not, she’s currently the only one(excluding the lovely Noe) whose being honest with herself about her own feelings and acting on it.

I agree that it isn’t entirely a rebound move to confess to Noe, but it does seem like that’s at least part of it in the sense that in his shock of losing any real chance with Hiromi due to the whole sister thing, he’s latching onto someone else who he knows is interested in him. Confessing to her when he doesn’t mean it is worse than anything Ai-chan did(since it’s not like Ai-chan deliberately sought out a relationship with Nobuse. The girl just needs to learn to say no). If Hiromi turns out to not be his sister and he immediately returns to her full force with no regard for Noe, then he deserves to be crushed utterly.

@Crusader: I hope so too, for both their sakes, and you’re right, sometimes you never appreciate what you have and how much it means to you until you lose it, but time will tell, and I just wish the best for her regardless.

I can sympathize with Hiromi and her situation, but her dishonesty, especially to herself, makes it hard for me personally to get behind her as long as she persists in this dishonesty. I’ll see how I feel about her if/when she comes clean, and the circumstances surrounding it.

@spring_rain
Hm, deceptive…? I suppose so, but not maliciously or even with bad intent, definitely? In fact, the one moment when she actually was truthful to Shinichiro pretty much wrecked Shinichiro upside down (the garden scene in ep6). If it’s about Isurugi Jun, she can’t be expected to confess her love to Shinichiro when she had been overheard telling another person that she likes Jun. In fact, she even tried to repair that situation with the beach walk, a subtle yet sure hint of her affection for him, showing how she yearns to be truthful to Shinichiro. She may be deceptive, but it is more forced on her than of her own free will, and for that I do not raise my hand against her.

It’s as if all the romantically involved charas have a knock on their heads.

Of course her choice of Jun was no accident – Jun is Noe’s brother, Noe was her pathway to Shin, but when confronted by Shin, she couldn’t go out and say “yeah I am targeting you” so she latched on to the next thing she could think of. I think she went on that first date because of the “tangled webs” principle (she didn’t want to get caught in her lie).

@People who don’t like Hiromi

Hiromi isn’t really reclusive. The first couple episodes really focused on how she has lots of friends at school and seems to be quite popular and outgoing. The only person she is reclusive around is Shin, for what should be obvious reasons. The problem between Shin and Hiromi is that they fell in love first and found out they were related later, when it was already too late to shut down their feelings. Hiromi is desperately trying to supress her feelings for Shin, so it makes perfect sense that she acts coldly towards him.

I feel sorry for Hiromi’s circumstances; Shin’s mother is a demon to put up with. However, I don’t particularly like Hiromi because her personality is sort of.. eh. She’s deceptive and reminds me of Kotonoha from School Days.. just a horrifying combination in my opinion.

A part of me wants Shinichiro to find happiness with Noe because she’s the cutest, sweetest, most genki character in the show. However, a part of me feels that Shin is a loser who ought to end up with Hiromi because they feel more right together. This part of me would like Noe to end up with her newly-discovered non-biological Isurugi nii-chan who could care for her in a way that Shin could not. Ah. .if only harems ended the way I wanted them to end.

@John
I think that Hiromi’s choice of Jun as her alleged boyfriend was no accident, he clearly has made enough of an impression to go on a first date with the guy. I do think that if Shin were never in the picture then Hiromi and Jun would have met through basketball any way. Besides Hiromi was somewhat flustered when on her first date, and she did not slap Jun when he caressed her face and stroked her hair…

I think that there is some hope yet.

@Dirian
Hopefully with Nobuse gone for a while Aiko will realize just how much she misses him. People never really appreciate something until its gone, I hope that is the case with Aiko.

@Cipher
Aiko will learn the hard way.

Still I agree that Shin-chan is probably motivated by Jun nii’s prodding.

Ai-chan really needs to see what Nobuse is putting up with for an unrequited love. I may have doubts about him not allowing Aiko to say the parting words, but not going beserk on Shinichiro shows his worth as a man and a loyal friend. Shinichiro would do well to return the favour and gently, yet firmly, turn down Aiko.