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[…] Nerds on a Mission While roaming around the internets, I came across this article and it, combined with my recent experiences on how “normal people

[…] the large population of immigrants with Asian origins and a company who dedicates much source: Why are you proud of your anime watching?, THAT […]

You know what? I’m going to make it a habit to not say “I watch anime” and instead say “I enjoy watching highly entertaining Japanese animation that sculpts my imagination and inveigles my many senses in my spare time — the way some do it is truly a work of art.” It’s bullshit and a little snobby, but at least maybe they’ll think I’m a smart guy besides being a reject of society. Time to make it clear that we’re doing this for a lot more than lack of sex.

I’ve already done my share by making my blog not “all about the loli’s” like every other Dick and Tom on the interwebs. Once I get more free time and I can blog regularly again I will take it a few steps further. Little by little we need to become more inclusive so that we can be accepted. We need to make it easier for people to become part of the community. With typical snobbish attitudes that look down on everyone that can’t name every seiyuu from niche shows we’re just shooting ourselves in the foot.

With that said, I approve of this post 100%. If gaming could get accepted by the general public, so can anime. We just need to put our effort in to make it happen.

Awesome entry, I agree with everything you say, and I will say that most of the otaku at my school are just like how you described and think that watching anime just makes them awesome and cool, but the truth is they only look that way to other otaku. I keep my hobby of anime on the downlow and if someone asks me if I do watch it I won’t hide it but I won’t go into a 30 minute speech on why so and so show is so awesome.

Another problem I have with modern otaku is that they themselves are very judgemental if you’re only a casual fan and I was part of the sports team and so they automatically labeled me as a jerk or rude jock whenever I did try and talk to them about a manga or something they had. If you say you don’t like they’re show or you’re not into that genre they automatically say something along the lines of “you don’t get it” or “you’re not smart enough to appreciate it.” I’ve had otaku at my school tell me those lines before and I can’t help but think how much intelligence is required to enjoy a cartoon?

I agree on the most part. In countries where anime hasn’t been socially ingrained in the fabric of its culture (i.e. everywhere except for Japan) it will always be a niche with a filthy reputation. There will always be renegade examples of it ‘breaking out’ — Ghost in the Shell: SAC & 2nd GIG here, for instance, really took off in the mainstream. But still. Hentai and fan service will forever undermine its reputation. Just the way it is.

One thing I will say in anime’s defence is that it has enough mature (as in, for older audiences) shows to elevate it above the whole ‘just for kids’ stigma. Granted the majority of it is otaku shite, but there’s enough decent stuff coming out to warrant the attention of people who want more than fan service and moe. The crux is that these will never be enough to legitimise anime in the eyes of the mainstream.

>>Don’t even get me started on dakimakuras.

Please start. I would like to hear that.
I do think we have a habit of embellishing what others think about us. Not to say that the claims aren’t true, but we might be making them a bit worse than they actually are. But are you stated, sweeping generalizations and all that jazz.

@DrmChsr0: Seconded.

I agree that most anime are geared towards children/teens but it doesn’t mean that older audiences can’t enjoy them. At the end of the day it’s still entertainment and as long as you can still enjoy it as such, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. Of course, like you said, there’s no reason to be screaming about it either to every Tom, Dick and Harry.

Definitely agree with the “I’m more awesome because I know more than you” part. Can never stand those type of people, especially in certain forums they never seem to run out of producing new ones.

it depends from people to people, not by age but by personal preference. Some adults may love those childish animes still! they need their fix of laughter, cry and … awkwardness =)

it doesnt matter how old you are but by your preferences. that is what I believe.

Old people do read manga in Japan too! but it depends on the kind of manga for them… of course the shounen and shoujo manga may not appeal to them but the target audience is for young kids and teenagers like you and I! We cannot say they do not read any manga! It’s definitely wrong to stereotype the preference of manga according to age or manga title.

Lup: There’s a danger in taking examples used in manga and anime for fact. Think about how our own TV caricatures certain stereotypes in society (usually for the sake of making it immediately understandable to the lowest common denominator); I think anime/manga is just as guilty for doing that.

My own experiences of Japan found that anime can be just as integrated into general/mass Japanese culture as, say, TV soaps are for ours. I’m trying to think of an “it’s aimed at kids, but adults love it too” example and Harry Potter is the best I can think of. Maybe the Pixar movies, too?

Anyways, the majority of anime *is* aimed at kids I agree, because that’s where the money is, but Japanese adults feel no trepidation in sitting down to watch a ‘mature’ (as in, for older audiences) anime as we might do with the Sopranos or Lost and so on. Same with manga: seinen and josei are just as prevalent and popular as shonen and shojo. It wasn’t unusual to see a Japanese business man reading a manga anthology on the train when I visited. I’ve never seen that in the UK; not even with US comics.

My point is that anime and manga aren’t stigmatised in Japan to the same extent as they are here because it’s less of a niche form of entertainment. The spectrum of popularity is far far broader in Japan. There’s certainly a hardcore fandom (otaku) but then that could be said for Harry Potter here, and anime/manga likes to pick on it because it’s an archetype and it’s easy for lazy storytelling. I don’t think it represents the reality of things, though.

As for film adaptations, perhaps, but I’m not sure I agree completely. If you’d said anime is a means to getting more exposure for the /manga/ it’s based on, then yes. But anime is popular enough in and of itself in Japan not to require a live-action film to raise the profile of its IP. Ignoring Death Note for a second, most live-action adaptations of anime are pretty low budget and rarely push things beyond what the anime has already accomplished. The Honey & Clover live-action film is not directly comparable to say, the X-Men live-action films. In this sense I don’t really consider the live action versions of anime to be ‘the next step’. They are more mainstream inherently, I’ll give you that, but I don’t believe them to be crucial to market ‘grown-up’ anime to wider audiences.

Anyway, this has been a freaking huge comment (apologies) and really I don’t know much of what I’m talking about. This is just my somewhat inexperienced perception of things . . .

I dun really care what people think of me, if i like something i like something, why hide it? I love d&d and anime alot and im proud of it.

Call me the geekzilla cause people point, scream and run

I think this could describe any hobby, including football (american or normal) and many other sports. I see a group of grown men with their bodies painted getting drunk and generally being ridiculous at a football game and I wonder how different that is from cosplay at a con. The only real difference is that most societies (except Japan) percieve that as the norm. As long as anime keeps being exported outside Japan, though, it will slowly gain acceptance; just look at video gaming, which is becoming more and more socially acceptable in most places. It’s just a societal difference that will probably fade away as globalization takes over and corporations begin to buy up world armies and construct their own city-state suburbs… I think it’s time to read Snow Crash again.

I don’t really agree with how you seem to just gather all the anime watchers under one banner and declare them as something else. Music critics often make genres up and it’s called lazy journalism. Sure society as a whole makes sweeping generalisations but by also arguing using such generalisations you provide a feeble counter.

I mean for a start, it’s like any hobby, watching anime isn’t because you’re the designated loser of the school or whatever but sometimes you might get into it because your outclassed status allows you to get into things that are typically on the fringes of popular culture. Or some like you call otaku’s get into it because it’s the trendy thing to do. Really you should simply conclude that it’s a mixed issue. I watch some anime but i’m hardly what you seem to define an anime watcher. I was in the sports team at school and i work out i consider myself to be fairly popular (well.. with my mates) and i don’t know much about computers. So do i still fit under your definition of anime watcher?

Maybe your definition needs work but i think if you want to prove a point and dispel negative attitudes you should maybe explain where plenty of anime watchers differ from the atypical stereotype.
For instance, I’m fairly certain you get a lot of people who watch anime and were and arn’t the uncool people at school/college. In fact, at my school some people openly said they watched it but only because it had a certain hipness to it; it was obscure and thus deemed fairly cool and “out there”. I also knew people who were the losers and also said they watched anime, yet they wern’t popular. They were losers not because they watched anime but because they lacked social graces/ where shy/ whatever, not because they watched anime. Anime just gave them an outlet, just as it’s also used as a way of being hip for the cool peeps and why i watch it because i like sweet sword battles!!! ahem.

Sorry for such a long comment.
olly

I agree that there’s a social stigma surrounding anime but it also applies to other niche interests - at the end of the day, it’s all about balancing it with other hobbies and pastimes. Maybe Lupus is generalising at bit but for some this generalisation is an issue for them.

It all boils down to how much you care about other people’s opinions. I watch the DVDs, read the graphic novels and listen to an OST or two; when I feel like I’m goiing too far I take a step back and remember it’s ‘just a hobby’, the same as live-action movies, playing guitar and whatever else eats up my disposable income.

Sure, buying into the full otaku lifestyle is taking things too far but that’s only *in my opinion* so I’m not meaning offense towards anyone there. Quite frankly I don’t understand footie fans any more than I do cosplayers but they have the advantage of being socially acceptable!

In closing, there’s nothing wrong with being an anime fan, the same as being a fan of sports, other film genres or music; shouting it from the rooftops or making it your main subject in social situations is a wholly different matter entirely.

A great post, this…it raises plenty of interesting points. Especially the fact that 4chan sucks.

Hmm…

Reminds me, I remember being called a kiddo by a he-thinks-he-is-smart-so-people-should-say-nothing-as-he-speaks smarty in my previous school (WHEW! I’m glad I’m out from that hell!) for being an anime freak (So what?).

And there was a newspaper article back in my country in early 2006 which equalizes anime as porn. Which is damn incorrect, and how it made us anime fans raged and fired the damn tabloid’s article writers who has little sense of research before thinking to get a front-page news. As a result, heheheh… anime, manga and the likes of it is becoming even more well-known (I have to thank everyone over here for being one to correct views). Still, even with that issue settled, there’s always people who refuse to accept that it is settled, the fact that anime does not equal to porn. And these people, I regard them as those who fail miserably in knowledge; the more we teach them the more they won’t get it into their minds. I wonder how could they call themselves civilized, smart, rich and blah blah blah (ugh, the thought of them irks me more now. I feel so nauseated now).

I stopped reading after you implied all Americans are fat.

Mochi: AFL and NRL are both rugby, but with different rules. Footy or football can refer to either.

TheBigN: No.

Nekonron: Yeah, I understand a lot of people enjoy say, Disney, but not many of them think watching Disney makes them awesome. They don’t use “Disney watcher” in the same vein as how some people use “Otaku”. When you get to the bottom of it, that’s my whole gripe with this business anyway. Enjoy it for what it is, don’t try to embellish it and make yourself look like some super awesome elite genius or whatever.

Ooga: There are certainly deep anime, but they’re not in the majority, and are certainly not on the mind of the general public. But just like if you say “novel”, people don’t automatically think the softcore porn pulp fictions you find in the back of your local bookstore, when you say anime the first thing that people think of will most likely be Naruto or Dragon Ball.

YanLan: Definitely. Enjoy it for what it is. Manga, compared to anime, have a wider audience range and cover broader themes and ideas. Seinen and jousei manga target people in university or above and I think they are more acceptable form of entertainment for adult, because they’re more mature and often deal with issues that are relevant in a not-so-black-and-white manner.

Hige: You’re right, stereotypes in entertainment shouldn’t be where I draw my examples.

American comics have a problem - they almost unanimously have violence as an integral part of them, because of the prevalence of superhero-ism, even if their themes and ideas are mature and explored as such. That makes them less acceptable to respectable people compared to seinen or jousei, which don’t always rely on visceral pleasures.

But yes, you’re right. I was wrong to just assume that Japan stigmatises anime and manga as much as the west does, when my understanding of Japan is really so limited. One telling thing though, is the clear seperation between the classification of shounen/shoujo and seinen/jousei, which to a certain extent legitimises the latter. That distinction isn’t made in the west, and so people tend to clump the whole thing together.

Grown-up was the wrong word - mainstream is better. I don’t think it’s the next step, but if it takes a live-action film to market it to a wider audience, then that shows that manga/anime are still not achieving the same sort of societal integration (I’m soooooo pretentious) as film.

Elydis: Great, that’s absolutely fine by me. That sort of courage/confidence is really hard to come by.

Anon: Well, I think anime is inherently worse than football, because you don’t gain anything from it and it doesn’t require any effort. To be good at football, you need to put in a lot of hardwork, and to win a game you need co-operation and skill. These things are valued in life. You don’t really get much out of watching anime (or watching football, but people who enjoy watching also usually dabble in it a bit). The problem with the community - yea it’s as much a part of humans as breathing. We like to do stupid stuff to embarass ourselves, but at least it’s socially acceptable to get drunk (as long as you don’t beat your kids or drive)!

Linya: Well said. I don’t think there’s anything that I can add to that. Hopefully in another 20 years we’ll see anime becoming more mainstream and accepted.

Olly: I’m not rallying against anime watchers, but those people who are proud of being an anime watcher/’otaku’ without realising or taking note of the reality of it all. This isn’t a mixed issue. It’s clear that it’s idiotic to think that your ‘otakuness’ makes you superior to everyone else. It doesn’t add anything to your person.

Kyokii: I respect anyone who can say that “I honestly don’t give a **** about what people think.” That takes guts.

Martin: Agree with what you say. It’s about attitude as well as how far you’re taking it.

Flame Wizard: Anime is, as often as not, softcore porn. Just look at the way a lot of characters dress, and why is there always that swimsuit or onsen episode? Of course the two aren’t analogous, but anime has this habit of prostituting itself.

Arakan: That’s awesome. I’m glad you found something more than simple entertainment out of anime.

Cdeee: You mean, you’re not?

I think it’s the obsession and trying to impose it on others that’s the problem. It’s really silly to see heated arguments over self-preferences in forums and that’s when I shake my head in silence fearing for the future of the community.

Yup anime is targeted to kids, like Elfen Lied, Gantz, Narutaru, Saikano, Monster.
Yup animation is targeted to kids, like The Simpsons, Family Guy, American Dad, South Park.
Generalization is bad.

And for being proud for watching anime. I think that one can be proud for knowing a lot about anything. Futbol (no, its no soccer, its futbol! :D), car racing, computers, history, matemathics, videogames, anime, hentai, culture, doesnt matter what, but the fact of having a lot of knowledge can be the source of the feeling of superiority and the proudness.

And its ok.

By the way. About watching anime and reading manga, the bad thing is feel shame, that´s bad.

They must have failed, but they exist. The commercial success has nothing to do with the quality of the product. Go and ask Sega about that.

And for every The Simpsons are thirty … I dont know… ¿Ben 10?

Saying that the animation is for kids is like saying that the movies are for kids and teenagers. For every good movie are thirty Spidermans, Hulks, Transformers, Pearl Harbors, etc, etc.

Broad generalization always bring misconception.

PD: Gantz deserved to fail, even with high quality source material Gonzo managed to ruin the story with their mediocre original content. Sad.

PD2: I dont know if being proud, but for god sake, dont hide in shame for watching anime o reading manga.

Yeah, I am proud to watch anime. Thank You.

Am also proud to be a fan of Battlestar Galactica and the Sci Fi channel.

Have read all of the Potter books, as well as Tolkien, Asimov, Ray Bradbury, Stephen King, Poe. I’m a major book whore and am proud that I can read faster than I can run.

Have never been good at sports and have a thriving Boys’Love manga collection.

I’m proud to be an Elite Otaku Nerd, prouder even that I still enjoy Shakespeare, more for the violence and the cross-dressing and the mindless anime it has spawned. Also I still like Pokemon, hurray for I!

I’d say anime is less accepted because of it’s differences. Think of your typical non-animated movie. Certainly there’s the life impacting movies, the crap movies, movies of men and woman naked, and everything in between. So why is anime so less accepted? Shouldn’t hentai be releatively more accepted than real woman nude, because the former is only a set of pixels, and therefore isn’t a actual nude person? It appears however, that this is actually the opposite of the truth. Can people really be so mentally ill that they would be more offended by some drawing than a real person’s nudity?

Yes. People today think a assortment of creased surfaces colored with liquid on par, if not more unacceptable in media, then a nude person posing in a movie. I find that a bit… sad. >_>

The proof? Anime isn’t flooding in our market right now, similar to Japan.

However, the stereotypes that exist will begin to show the truth in time. America will be more tolerant in the future. I predict that by say, 2020-30,because of the things I say above and below this message, the factor called “time” will make anime very popular in America.

In fact, you may want to disregard everything I just said. As time goes on, . As time goes on, anime will become more solidified in our lifes. As time goes on, we will have mistakes to learn from. As time goes on, in short, we are naturally inclined to having anime become a big thing in the states. It may create some new names. Things may happen. But we are getting more and more open to the world, allowing views to be more apparent. That is by the cause of time.

In time, I believe anime will reach the states in it’s true form. People may be going crazy over Mickey Mouse collectables now, so what would they say when they see true awesomeness? Anime has a lot a potental in the states that is left untouched.

I personally think anime has a bright horizon ahead of us. However, there will be a wait. I await the day where I can throw away all my fansub use forever in favor for T.V broadcasts. I would not mind any dub if I knew the original company who created the anime worked together with the dubbers so that a desirable result comes out of it. (1. If any anime is like this right now tell me, I want to buy the dub 2. Otherwise, I can be hopeful right? x_X)

I never read most of this all i did was come down to check if i could leave a coment well i like anime because it is good i whatch it cos i like it i have no idea if your goig on about if it is gay or not worth the time to whatch but i don’t give a shit on what you say about what i like. well change that like to love!

My response to this. Not directed at anyone personally, don’t take it personal.

Anime and I, a personal explanation

I am a Christian, my immediate family is Christian and I plan to marry a Christian woman. I also happen to love and enjoy certain animes, Japanese RPGS and some mangas. Does this make me bad? In terms of society I should be defined, due to my upbringing and common misconceptions, I am supposed to be gay (strict upbringing you see), live in a closet, and never have girls notice me. Not to mention pedophilia and we can’t forget the fact that I have no life. Not to mention spend tons of money to spend on such things, a geeky computer job (THAT’S true) and a Ph.D. in hacking, programing and D&D

I tell you, most of that is severely mistaken. I am relatively attractive and had girls ask for my phone number. I am most certainly not gay, and I happen to enjoy dodge ball, watch popular movies like th Chronicles of Narnia and I read heavily. Despite have around 70 gigs of Anime on my computers. I have such masterpieces as Kanon, and Death Note, as well as Fansubbed One Piece and Naruto. It is all a matter of how you see the time you have and how you spend it doing what you love to do.

I do have a life. Its not the same as the jocks who belittle me and yet respect me for my intelligence, if begrudgingly. Nor is it the same as the partier, who will die of an STD or something similarly avoidable and stupid without changing their life style. Thinking about injuries that could be sustained and other such hazards. My life style, that of a Christian computer and anime lover, is a most safe, comfortable, and intellectually challenging life style. I intend to raise my children according to how I was raised, spankings for what it deserves, and leading my house.

As for my own interests, no one, NO ONE, can deny the fact they enjoy watching, or listening to something that is not enriching to our daily lives. I, like many, many others, enjoy games, and the many things that follow. Though, I abhor such games as conker’s bad fur day, Dead or Alive and its series, I dislike in the extreme excessive fan service, Hentai both excites me and makes me sick. To the point of me desiring to kill those who make while at the same time wanting more.

I actually find that I need anime now. I need to SEE something fantastic, amusing. I enjoy reading and watching fantasies, I love to find a new book that, though it be girly (my sister’s definition, not mine) or overly fantastic. I love to get my mind around how the light saber functions, or how gundam’s really function, mechanically, that is. I don’t mind being stereotyped, I use stereotypes on others, its only fair. But when prejudices arise, and I constantly fight them because of the (my view of…) stupidity and utter lawlessness that I see in my (black mostly, but some white, but mostly black I’m afraid) classmates, even though older versions of them I have every respect for.

Now, for my view of the culture today, that is, the culture of instant gratification and selfishness that has perverted the younger generation and has sadly cut down severely the amount of girls I would consider worthy (My views, not yours, remember!) enough to be pursued. I hate “Free love” I hate “Acceptance for everyone” I HATE “Peace” d*** “peace”! Peace makes people fat, lazy and soft. Enemies make people look, listen not grow complacent. Anime is one of those things that promotes this (as such, I particularly enjoy Gundam 00) peace, and the desires of peace are noble, but misguided. How do you sustain it? What if one enemy escapes? One person can overthrow nobility, can kill a president.

Anime is escapism, I admit, but its pretty darn good escapism. I look at the world. I see evil, accepted evil, misguided and I see generosity towards those who are dying and those who are killing those who espouse the beliefs I would die for given a chance, I am not a pessimist, but it must sound like it. Then I look at anime. I see nobility, sleeved evil, betrayal, complex plot, I see the accepted evil, but it is still that, YOU CAN TELL!!! I see people with pure hearts that it hurts myself to know that I have lost that a long time ago. As much as I dislike in the extreme, I can’t bear without the world and all it encompasses. Anime being part of it.

I think I’ve deviated quite a bit from my original purpose, but that doesn’t really matter when you love something doesn’t? I feel that anime is harmless according to what your view is of life. Like my Christian “Absolute Moral Justice” (that of, I take things according to my own definitions, then I follow them without fail, usually indistinguishable with…) or my father’s “Absolute Justice” (that of Evil is Evil and cannot be accepted as legitamate. And this includes everything that is questionable) or someone else’s own personal definition, anime is what YOU view it as. Simple, right?

No, no it isn’t, but does it really matter? I abhor the idea of hentai and such, and my code of justice does not allow me to watch it. People watch it, destroy their souls. People also decide that people like me have a chance to be gay and have pedophilia on top of it… I’m sorry to say, generally, especially in the ancient world, gays WERE pedophiles. And I dare you to research it. And I believe that the same hold true today. People try to define evil very carefully, that is my point. Anime is not evil, a gun is not evil, until some evil holds it, then it kills. Anime to me is an enjoyment, an escapism that is perfectly legitimate.

Wow, it felt good to right this, don’t take anything personally.