Jiraiya > Itachi > Orochimaru > Jiraiya?
Long ago in the Naruto manga, we heard of how Orochimaru said that even Itachi was too strong for him. There was an ominous panel which showed a partially decaying forearm complete with Akatsuki ring on the the finger. At that point many fans guessed that Orochimaru wanted to take over Itachi’s body and fought with Itachi. But of course we know Orochimaru lost and had his arm chopped off as well. So we all wondered when would we ever get to see this ‘epic’ battle being shown in a flashback and finally Kishimoto answers us in chapter 345! Was it truly an epic flashback like we expected?
The answer is a resounding NO. Orochimaru gets pwned by Itachi so easily that it’s not even a joke. It’s not even a chapter-long fight, it’s just 2 bloody pages! The sannin genius Orochimaru loses in probably what is the fastest fight ever in Naruto, maybe except for the Tenten vs Temari fight in the Chuunin Exams.
I was expecting some crazy battle where Orochimaru busts out his S or A ranked jutsus and Itachi uses his Sharingan to counter them and maybe use his own jutsus. A chapter would have sufficed since I expected Itachi to somehow overpower Orochimaru as hinted but Itachi just looks at him and rapes Orochimaru with one genjutsu! A paralysing genjutsu with nice visual of giant stakes slamming through Orochimaru’s body, and when Orochimaru feebly tries to do a jutsu, Itachi calmly chops off that famous forearm.
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Now the burning question begets itself once again: why did Itachi run away from Jiraiya instead of raping him with all his broken Sharingan genjutsus or even use his Mangekyou Sharingan jutsus? Of course this question has been around ever since Itachi ran away since it was a conundrum when Orochimaru was scared of Itachi, yet Itachi ran away from Jiraiya….but Orochimaru obviously has no fear of Jiraiya and even thinks Jiraiya is a bumbling idiot.
Itachi himself said that at best they would suffer heavy injuries and at worst both sides would die. But yet against Orochimaru, Itachi could have very easily killed him with zero injury at all. After all Itachi says “Orochimaru, no matter what jutsus, they are useless before these eyes” but why say that to Orochimaru and not to Jiraiya? Why rape Orochimaru so easily but yet have no confidence in beating Jiraiya? Does Itachi know something about Jiraiya’s fighting style that we don’t?
While it’s true that Jiraiya seems to rely heavily on summoning jutsu variations which cannot be copied by the Sharingan, surely itachi is more than just his Sharingan. Even before he got the Sharingan, Itachi was already lauded as a super prodigy and of course he wiped out his whole clan which is no easy feat. I’m sure he has many powerful jutsus up his sleeve as well. But I really wish we got to see Jiraiya fight seriously; in fact I was expecting him to have a grand finale against Orochimaru but that doesn’t seem quite likely anymore.
Beside the lame deus ex machina explanation that the story forced Itachi to run away from Jiraiya, who do you think was lying or telling the truth about who is stronger than the other?
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I think the reason was because at that time, Itachi had used his Mangekyou numerous time in a short period of time, so he didn’t have enough chakra left to take on Jiraiya. He even stopped his Sharingan all together, which I imagine is a sign of great weakness for him. On top of that, they were basically in Jiraiya’s territory, where he’s in control of basically everything.
I think if Itachi fought Jiraiya at full strength, he wouldn’t have any trouble at all.
Not enough chakra isn’t really an excuse since prior to encountering Jiraiya, Itachi had only used the Mangekyou once on Kakashi. After that during the encounter with Jiraiya he wasted the Tsukiyomi on Sasuke right in front of Jiraiya and he still had enough chakra to do the Amaterasu.
It can be, since Kakashi did talk with Itachi and they discussed about how Itachi’s Sharingan-jutsus were very chakra-expensive. Itachi did run out of steam during that second encounter with Kakashi after all.
Cheers.
i think it was kakashi who pointed out that ms or the continued use of sharingan can have adverse effect on one’s eyes”he asked how bad is your eyes or something like that” in theory when orochi and itachi fought itachi eyes where not as damaged compared to when he fought jiraiya also itachi used the Tsukiyomi on sasuke so the strain in using his eyes are getting to him
Skane: It could be an excuse but for that encounter it shouldn’t be because Itachi used the Tsukiyomi on Sasuke a while AFTER he had met Jiraiya. So why waste it on a small-fry like Sasuke instead of the big fish like Jiraiya? I’m pretty sure Itachi wasn’t planning on meeting Sasuke there either so there was no reason to save up a Tsukiyomi instead of using it on Jiraiya.
And in the 2nd encounter with Kakashi, Itachi didn’t really run out of chakra because he only gave his clone 1/3 of his chakra supply. He did make an uncharacteristic error though.
Onizuka: Yeah I agree with that theory since the Mangekyou Sharingan doujutsus use massive amounts of chakra so I think it creates a huge strain on the eyes of Itachi each time he uses them. Even Kisame said it was dangerous to use it too many times.
Hmm well we know Jiraiya is strong enough that he was considered the first choice for the role of Hokage.
Is Itachi strong enough to take on a Hokage candidate?
If he can beat Orochimaru, who beat Sarutobi, then I would have to say yes.
Then again, in the end wasn’t it Sarutobi’s body that really failed him, not his skills as a ninja.
If he could have hung on a little longer he could maybe have taken Orochimaru with him.
I think that Itachi simply meant at that particular time Jiraiya who hadn’t used as much chakra as himself, would be the victor.
If they were to meet again, with Itachi at full strength then maybe Itachi would have a more optimistic outlook on his chances of winning.
His statement may have been more based upon the situation rather than an outright declaration of who is stronger.
But yes it was rather disappointing at how quickly he took Orochimaru down, makes the snake sannin come off as rather pathetic…
I was actually under the impression Itachi was referring to Kyuubi!Naruto when he said the “at at best they would suffer heavy injuries and at worst both sides would die” part. In the anime at least - he used a pronoun that reffering to something other than who they were just talking about after mentioning Jiraiya. I think.
[I'm not sure why they left though after they realised Naruto wasn't a worthy enemy.]
My pet theory is because Itachi wanted to have Sasuke kill Naruto, after seeing that he was ‘the best friend’ in the mangekyou requirement… in a way.
DJ: Yeah I’m pretty sure if Sarutobi was the same age as Orochimaru, he would have defeated him. Orochimaru himself alluded to that during the battle. While it’s possible that Itachi was basing his judgement on the situation, it’s still a 2 on 1 battle which says a lot on Jiraiya’s power. And we must consider that Itachi could have used the Tsukiyomi and Amaterasu on Jiraiya as well.
Regarding the Itachi vs Orochimaru, I thought about it and considered that Orochimaru wasn’t truly pulling out all the stops like he did against Sarutobi. After all he wanted Itachi’s body, probably unharmed or minially harmed if possible.
Anca: Itachi is most probably not referring to Kyuubi Naruto because when you see when they encounter Naruto, they don’t even care about him seriously, even semi-joking about cutting his legs off. Also when Itachi said that, the rest of the whole dialogue was pretty much focused on Jiraiya so he would be also referring to Jiraya for that sentence.
As for the “best friend” theory, Itachi doesn’t even know that Sasuke and Naruto know each other, prior to that meeting.
The answer to all these questions, in only two words:
lol naruto
Cheers.
maybe its like kakashi said about fight a mangekyou sharigan user, you have to have two people facing the opposite direction, one facing the guy and the other guy watching his back..although naruto would have jiriaya’s back and naruto wasnt that strong compared to itachi and fishguy(whatever his name is)
about jiraiya being able to summon creatures? i duno why but i thought that you could only summon one type of creature like frogs in jiraiya’s instance. can you summon more than that?
now who do you think is in sasukes body, orchmar or sasuke?
i wanted to see jiriya and orch got at it too..maybe well see that in a flash back.
The answer is:
Rock beats scissor, scissor beats paper, paper beats rock.
guy: Haha I don’t think Naruto really mattered to them in that battle. At that point Kisame could have easily handled Naruto without breaking a sweat at all.
Yeah Jiraiya can only summon frogs but he can summon many different kinds of toads, that’s what makes him more versatile in combat.
And the answer to who is in Sasuke’s body is in chapter 346
OMG, is Chapter 246 out? xD -bypasses all talk about Oro-freak-
But Orochimaru is major lose. I’m not surprised he got PWNed that badly, even if he wanted Itachi’s body in one piece. Excuses, excuses xP
“My pet theory is because Itachi wanted to have Sasuke kill Naruto, after seeing that he was ‘the best friend’ in the mangekyou requirement… in a way.”
@anca, I guess that view depends on how loyal Itachi is to the goals of Akatsuki because they need Naruto for the Kyuubi.
“Yeah Jiraiya can only summon frogs but he can summon many different kinds of toads, that’s what makes him more versatile in combat.”
@alkanphel, lol maybe Itachi just didn’t want to go up against Gamabunta!
^-^
Well it seems that Orochimaru gets very weak before a body change. Look how easily Sasuke took him on, he couldn’t get any jutus at all, his body was falling apart. He only took up any fight at all because Sasuke didn’t kill him immediately. (my opinion.) I believe that Itachi’s eyes hadn’t had much damage from the Sharingan yet when he faced Orochimaru as well.
Personnaly, I think Itachi just didn’t think fighting with Jiraya was worth the effort at the time. He’d already had one fight that day, and had verified that Naruto had the Kyubbi. He had accomplished what he had come to do and saw no reason to fight unnecessarily. Why waste the effort?
Whispered Hope: Spoilers are out, enough to tell us who won.
DJ: I can’t imagine what would happen if Jiraiya summoned Gamabunta in that small corridor lol
Linya: I wonder if the giant stakes is some genjutsu that is common to the Sharingan because I don’t think Itachi was using the Mangekyou Sharingan against Orochimaru at that battle.
I do think that it’s possible Itachi already made up his mind to run away from Jiraiya and thus wasted the Tsukiyomi on Sasuke but I don’t think he expected Jiraiya to use that Toad Stomach summoning. If Itachi didn’t have Amaterasu, he might have really lost there.
i think it’s a matter of preferance. Itachi used that crazy jutsu on sasuke because he’s a sadist that enjoys torturing his little brother, and could care less about other people like jiraya. I think he avoided fighting kekkaishi and jiraya because he wasn’t interested in defeating them. As for orochimaru being weak, the flashback showed him caught in Itachi’s genjutsu. We have no idea how the fight fared before that, only that orochimaru got snagged in itachi’s gaze of death. I wouldn’t put one above the other, only they each have thier strong points. Jiraya is probably a little weaker then orochimaru. He lost to oro during the three way fight b/c he was heavily drugged and couldn’t use chakra. It’s all a matter of what circumstances each of them is in.
XDXD: I think there wasn’t much of any fight before Orochimaru got caught in the genjutsu. Both of them look completely clean and unharmed, and their clothes are the same as well. I suspect Orochimaru started off with the soul-swapping jutsu but Itachi countered it with an even more powerful genjutsu. And the rest is history.
The Sannin battle had Orochimaru as the worst off since he couldn’t even do any jutsus but yet he was able to hold his own against Jiraiya who could still do some uncontrolled jutsus.
doesnt Mangekyou Sharingan have three jutsus or what..i read somewhere that mangenkyou means kaldescope so, is it just that one gensutu-specific move ?
now if itachi didnt use the mangekyou when he was fighting orochimaru then sasuke could stop orch from the soul transfer!
LOL, yea Gamabunta would have totally destroyed the place!
Another thought about the strength of Jiraiya, he was the Fourth’s mentor…
@XDXD, That’s a good point too. If it doesn’t seem necessary to Itachi then he won’t bother with it.
guy: It’s not confirmed how many crazy jutsus the Mangekyou Sharingan actually has. Since ‘mangekyou’ means kaieldoscope, so maybe every Mangekyou Sharingan looks different like how Itachi’s one and Kakashi’s one look totally different. And also maybe each MS has a different set of jutsus, which I think so because meta-plot-wise it will make the battles more interesting.
lol… shounen powerlvls
While he has him in that dimension, Sasuke should take out Kabuto while he’s at it ^-^
Maybe he wants Kabuto around for the same reason Orochimaru wanted him around. A good medic nin is really useful. But I doubt Sasuke expects Kabuto to take revenge for Orochimaru and I think Sasuke is just going to leave the base now.
The manga goes into detail about the different elements or nature of a ninja’s abilities. The concept is much what eshchan said, the rock paper scissors concept.
If this is true then isnt Jiraiya elements of Wind, since he can use the Rasengan? According to the manga’s set of rules, Fire beats wind. Itachi is of Fire Element. Did the creator miss this, or is he going to explain in later chapters that Jiraiya is really water element? I hope they dont stuff up their own logic.
Earth > Water > Fire > wind > Lightening > Earth
If they follow their own rules, and my assumption are wrong and Jiraiya is of Water element, then they still have a fan.
I would love to see how the Konoha’s Yellow flash would have compared. Maybe we’ll see it through Naruto.
Jiraiya isn’t wind, Rasengan doesn’t have any element. If you catch up with the manga you’ll know this.
Jiraiya is probably Fire and Earth, since you see him use both in the fight against Orochi.
OMG!!!
I think I almost died laughing reading the latest chapter.
Konohomaru has outdone himself, Sai and Sasuke naked doing naughty things LOL!
noticed sasuke still had the seal on him? and how he said, he took control of orch in manga 346…does this mean that saskue needs a transfer every three years.
jiraiya is problably a master of all the elemnts, and the reason orch treats jiraiya like an idiot, is cuz its how sasuke treats nartuo. it wouldnt matter which one is stonger, sasuke still picks on naruto just the same.
uh hey do girls find guy on guy stuff hot..
Yeah Sasuke still has the Curse Seal and Kakashi’s seal on him but I don’t think he needs to transfer every 3 years because he’s still in his original body. Also I think the reason why Orochimaru had to switch is because his soul was incomplete so no matter which body he transfers to, it will always rot. Not because the jutsu makes him change.
Originally Orochi didn’t need to transfer every 3 years - that was the time limit before he could use his ability again.
The need for transfering the first time came from having his hands taken, while the second time came from using an unsuitable body.
Yeah it’s quite easy to mix it up. But I guess it doesn’t matter now that Orochimaru is gone….for the time being hehe
“uh hey do girls find guy on guy stuff hot..”
@Guy, despite my friend trying to get me into that sort of thing, no I don’t find it hot.
I did find it utterly hilarious in this case though. I think it was great for Kishimoto to play up the idea ^-^ It shows what a great sense of humor he has.
Well for every girl or guy that doesn’t like it, there’s 100 more girls that love it O_O I only find it weird Kishimoto used known characters for guy-onguy and nameless characters for girl-on-girl. Why not some Kurenai x Anko?? Hahahaha
dj- it show that kish is a perv!!
@guy, lol yes he is! But not as bad as some manga ka’s out there ^-^
@alkanphel, maybe one day he’ll respond to his male fans and do something along those lines. ^-^ I know Anko has a lot of male fans and looks like the chick Sasuke is going after next wears hot pants. LOL Kishimoto was all pervy in this chapter, that was quite the butt shot of her ^-^
And about Kabuto, he probably is more use to Sasuke alive and besides Sasuke more than likely doesn’t see Kabuto as too much of a problem given how he took care of Orochimaru. He probably feels he could take him out any time he needs to.
I’ve always wondered about Kabuto, and what his motivations are. I’ve never truly been entirely convinced that he completely serves Orochimaru.
Sasuke doesn’t seem to have included Kabuto in Team Sasuke though. Maybe now Kabuto will be a rogue ninja with his own agenda. :O
in the latest chapter 346 i think the new guy that sasuske recuited seems strong n he says he might b able 2 beat sasuske with zabuza’s old sword does that mean that zabuza was stronger than he looked…..n 2 does anyone kno wat sasuske is up 2?????
someone said he might be trying to gather up different elemental users, ie sasuke is fire, the liquid guy might uses water. he might just want to copy all their jutsus, if orch didnt show sasuke enough jutsus.
junior: Sasuke is probably gathering up a team to go attack Itachi. Maybe the rest will distract Kisame while Sasuke goes 1v1 with Itachi.
I agree with alkanphel that seems like the logical thing to do. Sasuke can have this band of sound projects take on the rest of Akatsuki so he can focus on Itachi without any of them butting in.
Plus if they die in their mission, no big loss to him ^-^
hey you know how the last frame of 347 ends with “this chakara, could it be”, and that girl probably thinks it orchimaru when its really sasuke..
guy: Why would the girl be surprised it’s Orochimaru? Since Orochimaru is the master of the place he should be the expected one. It could be referring to Sasuke’s chakra but if those scenes are happening at the same time Sasuke is at the Wave Country then maybe it’s not him.
maybe it is someone else, but i was saying that she would be suprised its sasuke,because sasuke took control over orch then sasuke has orch’s chakra..
i hope its not another character, kish is just filling the story with all these people
and she said she knows orch is dead
if sasuske iz gatherin a team 2 go after itachi then does that mean he has no intrest in naruto anymore n now that naruto killed that dude that steals hearts then the akatsuki guys prolly want him even more so som1 iz gonna get in the others wayn as far as i’m concerned akatsuki + sasuske =dead naruto.lol
guy: Just think of these new guys as the new Sound 4. Kishimoto will either kill them off by fighting with some Akatsuki or maybe some of the Konoha teams we haven’t seen yet.
junior: I don’t think Sasuke ever had any interest in Naruto at all in the first place. I do think that the Akatsuki will focus more on capturing Naruto now that they killed Hidan & Kakuzu.
bummer….m yet naruto still insists on bringin sasuske bak 2 tha village i’m sure there’s no jutsu 2 make that spoiled brat sasuske stay anyways n sai i don’t trust the dude one bit.
itz almost like this season is gonna break som fans hearts like all the garra lovers(tears) does he even hav his abilities anymore?????
Yeah Gaara still has his sand moving ability but I don’t know if he has the automatic sand defense still.
i cant seem to get anymore naruto shippuden off of youtube, i dont know if its cuz theyre removing it or if its not out yet..
does anyone know a different site where you dont download anything…
oh and if sasuke goes into cs2 form for too long, will he lose himself and could Orch come back?
Does Itachi and Kisama ever die in the episodes? I have only seen up to episode 82 and I am a good fan of Itachi and if he dies that will piss me off. And Kisama is awesome, does he die?
Nope Itachi and Kisame don’t die….yet
Yet… That is the key word. I am a big fan of Itachi and if he dies I will get pissed…. And Kisama’s Samehada sword is tight, it would suck for it to not in use.
Well we’ll definitely see Samehada in use when it’s time for Kisame’s main fight.
@guy, depends what episode number you are looking for. It could just be that it isn’t out yet. Naruto is only airing every two weeks instead of every week right now.
I’m so glad Sakura is more grown up. Watching Karin’s fangirling makes me realise how irritating it was.
I’d like to see Suigetsu take on Kisame, Zabuza’s sword against Samehada would be a pretty interesting fight.
Too bad the Beheading Sword doesn’t seem to have any special properties unlike the Samehada…yet!
LOL yea. I’m sure Suigetsu wanted it so badly for a reason ^-^
hello this is the number one anime artist my skills are unrealistic i pwned all who get in my way if you think itachi is any in the naruto anime you haven’t seen skill yet lol holla at me at element_maxell@yahoo.com
Also they might have been using the clones which the akatsuki leader can create. These clones are almost permanent but are only at 30% power, which was enough to keep naruto, kakashi, sakura, and chiyo who are all fairly powerful at bay. Full power itachi wins peroid. the REAL question is HOW IS ITACHI SO FREAKING POWERFUL and at such a young age.
what happen to itachi when he is defeated by sasukee
I bet itachi beats saskue but naruto saves him by going kyubi, then somehow naruto kills itachi, and then saskue gets mad and tries to kill naruto
Saskue and Naruto seem to want to fight eachother, its basically what the anime is about so…
idk if anyone notices but there is a resemblance between the fourth and Jiraiya. but if they are related, and the fourth is the greatest shinobi, then that means Jiraiya has some of that power too. And he can use it to kill Itachi.
I mean look at the facts:
they both summon the Toad
they both know the rassengan
they both have the same hairstyle
And than you can put Naruto in the family tree because they all look related
and they r all perverted
Itachi doesnt stand a chanse vs Uzumaki blood
But thats just my theory
If you remember one thing, Jiraiya is the 4th’s teacher so that is why they can both summon toads. And the 4th taught the Rasengan back to Jiraiya. And finally the 4th and Jiraiya have completely different hairstyles.
For Itachi to us the Sharingan doesn’t his opponent have to be looking right into his eyes. Itachi knew that Jiraiya was too smart to do this. Orochimaru on the other hand gets trapped by Itachi’s gaze and seems surprised at the power of Sharingan. I think Jiraiya is alot more savvy than Orochimaru in this regard and Itachi knew that he wouldn’t be able to use the Sharingan on him.
Well I don’t think that’s 100% true, both Jiraiya and Orochimaru probably did not know about jutsus like Tsukiyomi or Amaterasu. Even if they looked at the Sharingan, I think they both felt that they would be able to escape the genjutsus. But clearly Orochimaru’s estimation was under the actual power of Itachi’s jutsu.
Hmm I’m starting to think along the same lines as you alkanphel (does that mean I’ve come over to the darkside I wonder?)
And that the reason Itachi backed down when faced with Jiraiya is simply because he perceived Jiraiya to be stronger than himself.
Kakashi certainly also thought that was the reason. He reasoned that Akatsuki had stayed away from Naruto for the last three years because Jiraiya was with him.
It was Chiyo who told them that the reason they hadn’t come after the Kyuubi since the last attempt was because of the amount or preparation required to extract a Bijuu.
However I think that Kakashi might have been partially right too. After all once they had the time to prepare it wasn’t Naruto they went after first but the one tailed Shukaku inside of Gaara instead.
hmmn maybe it’s because Itachi (and Akatsuki) doesn’t know that much about Jiraiya and his techniques. Orochimaru had been with them for a long time so they must know his style.
Plus Jiraiya had been wandering around ever since Orochi left Konoha. He must have mastered countless jutsus just like Sandaime. If you look back at Sandaime’s style of fighting they both use Earth and Fire techniques. They’re mostly powerful or defensive jutsus.
Orochi on the other hand is just all about forbidden jutsu and disgusting body transformations. Though he is a prodigy and must know a lot of jutsu as well. I think Orochi relied more on his forbidden jutsus that he lacked the experience in using the same techniques that Jiraiya uses.
am I making sense?? But frankly, Orochi has never used a single decent technique in this series. He just weasels out of danger which is kind of pathetic.
orch is an interesting character, in ancient japanese myths and stuff, there is a nine tail demon and all the demons from the manga…there is also a eight tail snake by the name of Yamato no orch…sound familiar?! Orch was supposed to be the eight tail demon but Kish made him an actual character…
anywho, i think in naruto 353, you know how deidra says he wanted to kill orch..hes going to go after sasuke as a mission and he’ll tell saskue that kakashi knows how to do the mankgenyou sharagan,,,which might make sasuke wanna go back to konohona…oh and we might get to finally see if tobi is obito
sdrai: It’s quite possible that the Akatsuki don’t know so much about Jiraiya’s techniques but actually the forbidden techniques that Orochimaru uses are supposed to be more powerful that the jutsus that Jiraiya uses. His Impure Resurrection jutsu was pure cheating by summoning the 1st and 2nd Hokages. It’s like fighting 3 S-ranked ninjas at the same time. But I agree, Orochimaru hardly used any proper jutsus to fight which was disappointing. I guess Kishimoto wanted to use Orochimaru to show off all the forbidden jutsus because no one else can.
guy: No doubt Orochimaru’s name reminds you of the mythical 8 headed serpent, his name was actually taken from the folktale of the “Gallant Jiraiya”. All the Sannin names were taken from that story.
ok my bf told me about this concept..
something about contrapelo..that with certain people and techniques you can’t win no matter how powerful you are. Just like the legendary sannins. It’s like a balance thing. slug - frog - snake .. so maybe itachi can’t deal with Jiraiy’s techniques but he can with orochimaru..
^_^
@ alkanphel
yeah orochi is the only one who’s sick enough to use those jutsus…hmp
@asrai, that makes a certain amount of sense. After all both are similar if you go by the animals that are associated with them.
Weasels and Snakes are both considered sly and cunning to name just a few traits they share.
Although I do consider Itachi to be smarter than Orochimaru.
thats funny…is a weasel a mongoose? cuz mongooses eat snakes
While it would be funny if it were true, a weasel is not a mongoose.
Wow, has anybody else read the latest chapter yet?
I can honestly say I did NOT see that one coming.
But now we know what’s up with Kabuto. I’m curious though, since it really seemed like Orochimaru was pottering about inside old Sasuke’s head, how can he be a part of Kabuto?
Or when he means ole snake eyes is part of him now, is it really Orochimaru or has Kabuto simply been messing around with the snake sannin’s DNA?
@ DJ
yeah it seems a bit off..Sasuke took over..so I thought Orochi would make a big comeback by taking over Sasuke’s body again!
I vote for Kabuto mutation! *raises hand*. He still talks as Kabuto! If Orochi took over his body wouldn’t he be talking like Orochi?
DJ: Well from reading the chapter again it seems to me that after Orochimaru died, Kabuto lost his way and purpose (assuming he’s not bullshitting Naruto) and so as to anchor himself to some ideal, he took the drastic step of grafting a piece of Orochimaru onto himself and maybe he’ll become the next “Orochimaru” to carry on his twisted ideals.
@alkanphel, thanks that makes more sense to me ^-^
I think Kabuto was more screwed up than I ever realised!
DJ: Yeah that is the logical way to explain what Kabuto did. But since this is still a shounen manga, don’t be surprised if somehow Orochimaru takes over Kabuto and comes back…
duh..i know why jirya is stronger than itachi..b/c he knows the fourths flying lighting god tech thingy(the flash move)
the fourth probably taught jirya it too, just like the rasegan
sasuke’s eyes seem to have gotten a little bit different, maybe its his intent to kill, or maybe hes growing his skill to the point where the mangenkyou sharigan will happen automatically, you know wit out killing his closest friend
didn’t itachi say himself that if he fought jiraiya then it would result in a draw?
Itachi is going blind from constant use of his eyes there is also a rumor going around saying he didnt murder his clan but someone else did and for sasuke to be spared he had to join the akatski
hello I’ italian
I’m italian
Listen the reason itchi could beat orochimaru and not jiraiya…was because orochimaru is weaker than jiraiya…if you look at where the three names of the legends are based of jaraiya, tsunade, and orochimaru…they all come from a japanese tale in which the main character is jaraiya…so there
well i think Itachi could not beat Jirachi that its beacuse Itachi was weakened by using his sharigan on another sharigan Kashasi earlier. This is one thoery. Another is Itachi and Hoshigaki Kisame objective was to attempt to capture Naruto and extract his tailed-beast Naruto would not be acputred without going down with a fight, fighting naruto plus naruto his little brother Uchiha Sasuke who has grown in strength and desperatly want to kill him. Itachi and Kisame would also have to fight yes you know him Jiraiya a very powerful ninja and Legendary Sannin. This would have been to much for Kisame and Itachi so they ran as Jiraiya would have protected Naruto with his life, as well as Kyuubi the demon fox inside Naruto would not want to be captured by the Akatsuki Organization knowing what they would do to him. Naruto would be a very dangerous force to Uchiha Itachi and Hoshigaki Kisame even though he huge amount of chakra his jutsu would be nothing to Jiraiya or Naruto in his demon fox state and the fox nowing he would be captured would be using all his tails when Naruto completely loses control and grows four chakra “tails” the demon fox’s personality takes control making Itachi and Kisame DEAD. i don’t think Itachi ramn away from Jiraiya but all three of his opponents at the same time.
Thank You
Alexander S. Brown
Here is what the fight wou;ld have looked like:
Uchiha Itachi(LEGENDRAY POWERFUL CHAKRA) and his fish friend (POWERFUL CHAKRA)Vs Jirachi
Sorry Here is what the fight wou;ld have looked like:
Uchiha Itachi(LEGENDRAY POWERFUL CHAKRA) + Kisame (HUGE POWERFUL CHAKRA) Vs Jirachi (LEGENDRAY POWERFUL CHAKRA)+ Sasuke (GOOD CHAKRA)+ Naruto (GOOD CHAKRA)+ Demon Fox Kyuubi (HUGE LEGENDRAY POWERFUL CHAKRA) i believe Itachi and Kisame have lost this fight don’t you guys!!
Looking at the actual situation, Itachi could have walked away with Naruto and Sasuke in custody provided he had eliminated Jiraiya first. The fact that he did not, shows either:
1. Itachi is stupid.
2. Jiraiya could not be eliminated, even with the Tsukuyomi that Itachi used on Sasuke.
Since I don’t believe Itachi to be stupid, 2 seems more likely.
Sidenote: A lot of people like to dismiss the fact that Jiraiya was not an obstacle for Akatsuki because of a short conversation Chiyo had with Kakashi. Chiyo states that prep-time was a factor, and just because of that, people assume that Jiraiya is not a major threat.
Chiyo’s statement largely deals with explaining why Gaara and the other jinchuuriki weren’t kidnapped until after the timeskip. It doesn’t explain the attempt with Naruto, and more importantly, it doesn’t change the fact that Itachi did make an attempt to go after Naruto preskip, just not enough to the point where he risked his life.
It’s always been my opinion that Jiraiya is simply a bad match-up for Itachi.
Itachi(Oro): “Orochimaru, against these eyes, all of your jutsus are useless.”
Itachi(Jiraiya): “Not only was Tsukuyomi bad enough, but I even had to use Amaterasu.”
Match-ups matter in the manga. It doesn’t matter what you can do if you meet an opponent who nullifies your major advantages. In this case, the sharingan is what this battle triangle revolves around. While Orochimaru will find himself powerless against the sharingan, Jiraiya will force Itachi to suffer the backlash his MS instigates, and the severe side-effects of the MS is Itachi’s weakness.
Jiraiya is simply a bad match-up for Itachi, though Itachi may very well be stronger since Jiraiya isn’t getting any younger now.
@Anthony: If it’s true that Itachi did not kill the clan, then that means that he WANTS sasuke to suceed, which would in turn, give meanign to the the use of tsukiyomi.(SP) He would put in more hate into sasuke, forcing him to get even stronger then he is now. He probably could have taken them all. If he had used tsukiyomi (SP) on naruto, kyubii wouldn’t be a threat. Therefore, I believe he left to keep them alive.
Also, Naruto is sasukes closest friend. If itachi really did kill the clan, then taking away naruto now would mean that sasuke would miss his chance at killing his best friend.
That’s just what i think.
I don’t think anyone takes naruto serious enough. I mean sure Kisame pretty much took out his chakra with his sword which made everyone forget about naruto as a threat, but the demon fox’s chakra isn’t limited. In the old Japanese stories about the tailed beasts the nine tailed fox had infinite power and it never lost a fight. The only other Bijuu with power close to that was the 8-tailed snake which only lost to the ungodly powerful fox. Maybe itachi was still concerned about naruto even though he was acting so casual.
I LOVE ITACHI he is so HOTT it was really mean what he did to sasuke
by killing his own parents just to test how strong he was but i still think itachi is the bomb i like him because he is strong, he is hott,he keeps his cool while fighting, and besides the boss i think he is the strongest in the whole akatski
Itachi did run out of energy i hate to admit. but he doesnt really care about jiraiya. I mean, his perogative is to make himself stronger. And sasuke stronger too. he loves his brother. Although i wish hed kill sasuke and get it over with. He makes sasuke stronger through hatred and realizing sasuke forgot his goal of avenging his clan, he reinforced that hatred by using tsukiyomi. Thats why. plus, sasuke was the main one getting in the way, not jiraiya. In fact, jiraiya decided to stay out of the fight. Kisame just stood there laughing. Hahaha. I love that.
also itachi said if he fought in that state, ( of exhaustion) it would end in a draw. My itachi is that fly. He could probably kill jiraiya with only a fair amount of difficulty.
Well. Orochimaru was a force to reckon with. In my opinion he’d give anyone hell if they wanted it. But. Itachi and Sasuke have the Sharingan, which Orochimaru had nothing good enough to face with. With that point of view I can see why Orochimaru wouldn’t easily beat Itachi or Sasuke. But looking at what Itachi said [he said that even if they had more people it wouldn't make much of a difference facing Jiraiya], it only stands to reason that either Itachi was being extremely careful or there’s something about Jiraiya that we don’t know yet. He was taught by Sandaime and taught Yondaime, after all, and was to be the fifth.
I think the reason is simple. We can ask “well why NOT fight Jiraiya?” and think up reasons for getting into a fight, but that’s just it. There just wasn’t a reason. Fighting Jiraiya would just reveal the extent of Itachi’s abilities and waste time. Itachi has ALWAYS been a very secretive person. In some ways he’s the perfect ninja. I don’t think he shows more cards than he has to and Akatsuki as a whole is still trying to keep a low profile. Itachi also tends to want to finish things quickly, and he’s very cautious by nature. He’s a planner, but his plan to lure Jiraiya away from Naruto by exploiting his weakness for women didn’t work. On top of that, Sasuke showed up. More interesting is that Itachi seemed to think that using Tukiyomi on Sasuke given that opportunity took presedence over picking a fight with Jiraiya, which seems REALLY suspicious given Itachi’s other behavior patterns and Akatuki’s goals. Kisame seems to think that Itachi just enjoys being cruel, and that may be true, but Itachi makes very calculated decisions and its possible that Itachi saw a real necessity in using Tsukiyomi on Sasuke at that point. His subsequent decision to escape the battle unfinished was also calculated. Jiraiya had the advantage in surprising them and when it comes down to it, there was no good reason to battle it out. He had nothing to gain and everything to lose. Sure, they could have picked up Naruto, but they don’t really need him yet.
Besides, it makes for a good introduction to Itachi and Itachi vs Sasuke that was really EXCELLENT in the story at that point. So in the end it’s all about the storytelling.
Just MHO.
Hey guys,
it at least remains a story. That Itachi would defeat Jiraiya in such an early state of the story wasn’t an option. If Kishimoto had depicted a long fight between Itachi and Orochimaru, he would have lost the focus on the fight with Sasuke, for he just wanted to show the superiority of sharingan. If he ever thought of the comparison of Orochimaru and Jiraiya in this scene, then he just wanted to show that Jiraiya is stronger than Orochimaru thought. Thats all.
I Think that orochimaru underestimates Jiraiya in a similar way that sasuke always seems to underestimate naruto.
And Naruto wasn’t as weak as Sasuke thought.
The answer is simple and it’s given by Kakashi when they are forming teams to search for the Akatsuki members that killed Asuma…
In a fight between Itacho and Jiraiya, both would both be in to kill the other. They both would have to go all-in.
But Orochimaru didn’t want to kill Itachi, he wanted to capture him, what would be much more difficult. Orochimaru would have to restrain himself and wouldn’t be able to fight with all his might, thus making him an easy pray for Itachi, who knew it all along.
Long story short, you have to overpower someone by a landslide if you want to capture him, but you only need to be a little bit more powerfull if you’re in for the kill…
for those of u who want to kno…Sasuke is gathering up all the strong sound projects to form their own “clan” to bring peace to the world.
however, his goal to kill itachi still remains
While we are left only to speculate on the matter. The three sanin are shown to be more than a landslide stronger then even other special jounin. And the three-day jutsu with the giant statue requires a certain counterbalancing element to it, so to go straight to the nine-tailed fox first would destroy it. That means that the Akatski would have to keep naruto alive until they get at least some of the other jinchurriki (i can only hope that i spelled that right) in there first, and Itachi and Kisame would probably be the ones stuck taking care of him. I would guess that itachi wasted his chakra so that he would have an excuse to run off. My other theory also includes him using this pretense, but it is simply so Itachi can wait to have a more entertaining battle when he finally decides to capture naruto.
i tink its because jiraiya used to teach the leader of akatsuki, Pain .and tat pain mite have some feelings left for jiraiya so itachi didnt want to kill him.
itachi said it himself, when they were tracking naruto and jiraya, that kisame and itachi would both die if they attacked jiraya. thats why they had to use the girlt to distract jiraya. i would like to see gai fight itachi, by just lloking at his feet
orochimaru seemed to be more specialized in genjutsu and “copyable” ninjutsu, meaning itachi has the advantage. jiraiya is probably more into summoning techniques and stuff to help his taijutsu, barely giving itachi, if any, advantage with the sharingan.
here’s a concept, maybe itachi didn’t kill the uchiha clan, but was madaras, and itachi has joined akatsuki to keep a tab on madaras. and those whole sasuke thing is to prepare him to kill tobi should itachi fail.
if you read the latest manga(375 i think), jiraiya has a toad form thats allows him to summon two aditional elder toads basically attached to his neck.
i’m guessing that itachi would have trouble using genjutsu on three different minds, seeing as though he gets exhuasted from using mangekyou just twice. (mangekyou probably being his only option. after all, this IS the great jiraiya, one of the legendary sannin)
ninjutsu and genjutsu are probably out of the question because as stated earlier, this IS jiraiya we’re talking about. so basically thats my reasoning.
Jiraya’s the man…Of course Itachi cant beat him.
You all are telling a crap of junk
Jiraiya will defeat that body of pein! also agree with the theory said by FeStealth maybe Itachi didnt kill Uchiha clan and its just preparing Sasuke.
i think that itachi just tried to stick to his mission, he didnt want any interference so he played it off so every one thought jiraiya could win and make it look like he ran away, so he could get back to the mission at hand
That makes no sense. Itachi told Kisame plain and simple. If they were to fight Jiraiya then in the best case scenario they would kill him as well as dying themselves. He also said even if they had 100 more men it would not change that result. And someone posted it earlier and i agree with them that Oro didn’t want to harm the body because he wanted it as his container.
Well to me it seems that Jirayia is in fact the strongest Sannin. One of the earliest glimpses of that is when Jiraiya was able to summon Gamabunta even when he had virtually no control, and could only focus *little* amounts of chakra. Even with this *little* amount; he was able to summon Bunta. That alone should speak volumes on the chakra capacity that he has. Also, Itachi was not but so weakened after he attacked Kakashi; the most he could have lost is 20-30% of his chakra; if that. Remember, that his clone could have used the Mangekyou eye; but it would have left it without suitable chakra to combat right? And the clone had roughly how much of Itachi’s chakra? A third. So even with Itachi at near maximum strength; he shouldn’t have had but so much trouble dealing with Jiraiya if he is in fact that strong. On top of that; Kisame was at virtually full strength; and even with this fact Itachi said that they would more than likely both die trying to fight Jiraiya. Also; Sasuke’s sharingan allowed him to automatically reverse Orochimaru’s technique; it wasn’t so much sasuke’s strength; but the inheret ability of his Doujutsu to fend off the attack; combined with Orochimaru’s *severely* weakened state. After which Sasuke absorbed Orochimaru. So using this as a basis; we can conclude that Itachi so easily fended off Orochimaru becuase of the sharingan; not neccesarily because he was so much stronger than him.
i think der is something in jiraiya that we dont know…. itachi said himself that he himself will have a hard time fighting jiraiya and they might kill each other at the end….. jiraiya can even beat pein one on one…..
man so many sharangin lovers… if only they take that pride away they could see clearly the reasons why things happened the way they did…
as someone said up there, you need to over power someone to capture them. but if you were to try and kill em all you really need is to be a little bit weaker then them but with an intent to kill.
so if it were on the playground, kinda like a big bully pushin the little kid around for fun and suddenly the little kid pulls out a bat and smacks the bully. though we know who would have won had the bully wanted to hurt the kid, the kid won because he wanted to hurt the bully.
anyways, oro’s abilities tower over the other sennans, as it took two of them to fend off oro (without arms.) and plus jaraiya was always being bullied and beaten by oro when they were younger.
itachi didn’t fight jiraiya because he’s really a good guy and didn’t want to hurt him. that’s all..
i think since jiraya has sage techniques (which is far stronger than any of orochimaru’s jutsu) itachi didn’t take any chances of losing. but it seems that itachi really didn’t want to catch naruto since he wasn’t a bad guy after all
Itachi WOULD have defeated Jiraiya back then if only he was at full power. There are many reasons why he run away from J-man.
1. He wasnt after the Kyuubi, it was Danzo.
2. He didnt want to capture Naruto since he wanted to delay Madaras rise to
power…
3. He was heavily exhausted from repeated usage of the MS(proven when he
deactivated his sharingan after their escape)
4. He didnt want to catch the attention of the entire village(Jiraiya’s
caliber was such that he could have pushed Itachi to use his most powerful
techniques - imagine Jiraiya summoning Gamabunta, and Itachi Susano-O, in
that very place(he warned Kisame earlier not to overdo things as Kisame’s
jutsu can be very eye catching)
5. he was after all a good guy
Reasons why he could have defeated Jiraiya:
1. Jiraiya is weak in genjutsu, which Itachi is renowned for
2. Itachi has techiques that are so powerful that they are named after
Deities
3. Susano-0 can deflect any attack(also defeated Orochimaru faster than the
can blink…
You guys do realize that Itachi is actually the good guy along by now, right? I mean, Itachi could defeat Jiraiya, but that would ruin all of the palns he made.