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	<title>Comments on: Hopeful road: The hero&#8217;s journey and Ouran High School Host Club</title>
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	<description>THAT blog of various wonders!</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 00:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: sgdsgdg</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-53203</link>
		<dc:creator>sgdsgdg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jun 2007 03:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>this site is gay so are u guys</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this site is gay so are u guys</p>
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		<title>By: Haesslich</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-18126</link>
		<dc:creator>Haesslich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 03:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Spam, Impz.  Be proud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spam, Impz.  Be proud.</p>
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		<title>By: THAT Anime Blog v2.0 &#187; 2007 &#187; February &#187; 04</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-10159</link>
		<dc:creator>THAT Anime Blog v2.0 &#187; 2007 &#187; February &#187; 04</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2007 04:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] 01/28/2007: Hopeful road: The hero&#8217;s journey and Ouran High School Host Club [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] 01/28/2007: Hopeful road: The hero&#8217;s journey and Ouran High School Host Club [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: THAT Anime Blog v2.0 &#187; 2007 &#187; February &#187; 02</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-10148</link>
		<dc:creator>THAT Anime Blog v2.0 &#187; 2007 &#187; February &#187; 02</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2007 03:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] 01/28/2007: Hopeful road: The hero&#8217;s journey and Ouran High School Host Club [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] 01/28/2007: Hopeful road: The hero&#8217;s journey and Ouran High School Host Club [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Reslez</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-10147</link>
		<dc:creator>Reslez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2007 02:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Briar - I think you could be right about Haruhi learning she isn't always alone.  I totally forgot about that, but it's probably her biggest area of potential character growth.  Great insight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Briar - I think you could be right about Haruhi learning she isn&#8217;t always alone.  I totally forgot about that, but it&#8217;s probably her biggest area of potential character growth.  Great insight.</p>
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		<title>By: Briar</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9640</link>
		<dc:creator>Briar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 11:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>"As for the ‘elixir’ or knowledge that Haruhi will bring back with her to the Ordinary World… I get the feeling, which is supported by a couple of scenes in the manga, that during her stay in the Special World Haruhi is gaining insight into not just the privileges but also the burdens of having money. "

Perhaps the elixir is merely the ability to realize that she's not alone, and that she doesn't have to do everything alone. It's also the realization of the knowledge that she has friends and even a potential love interest.

(I refer to the anime. I have no idea how the manga ends... :) )

Great post btw, something different very very thoughtful and interesting reading. While I've never read Campbell's book, there has been some literature about that focus on the subject of archetype (I think the person who raised this idea is Jung). The Hero is an archetype, and the whole Hero's Journey is some kind of story prototype: ie, something that recurs across genres, cultures, worlds, countries and languages. Certainly the anime genre has lots of Hero's Journey stories. Probably the only prototype more popular is the bash-bash got-whacked grow-stronger bash-bash got-whacked grow stronger prototype. :P

I'm not really knowledgeable about these things, but the post and comments certainly make interesting reading! :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As for the ‘elixir’ or knowledge that Haruhi will bring back with her to the Ordinary World… I get the feeling, which is supported by a couple of scenes in the manga, that during her stay in the Special World Haruhi is gaining insight into not just the privileges but also the burdens of having money. &#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps the elixir is merely the ability to realize that she&#8217;s not alone, and that she doesn&#8217;t have to do everything alone. It&#8217;s also the realization of the knowledge that she has friends and even a potential love interest.</p>
<p>(I refer to the anime. I have no idea how the manga ends&#8230; <img src='http://that.animeblogger.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>Great post btw, something different very very thoughtful and interesting reading. While I&#8217;ve never read Campbell&#8217;s book, there has been some literature about that focus on the subject of archetype (I think the person who raised this idea is Jung). The Hero is an archetype, and the whole Hero&#8217;s Journey is some kind of story prototype: ie, something that recurs across genres, cultures, worlds, countries and languages. Certainly the anime genre has lots of Hero&#8217;s Journey stories. Probably the only prototype more popular is the bash-bash got-whacked grow-stronger bash-bash got-whacked grow stronger prototype. <img src='http://that.animeblogger.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not really knowledgeable about these things, but the post and comments certainly make interesting reading! <img src='http://that.animeblogger.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Reslez</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9624</link>
		<dc:creator>Reslez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 07:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/27/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9624</guid>
		<description>Haesslich - I agree with you about the Special World, which is the world of rank, wealth and privilege Haruhi finds herself surrounded by after joining the Host Club.  Her deadpan common sense and irritation with waste and frippery make a great contrast with the silliness of the other hosts.  Keep in mind that heroes don't necessarily have to return to the Ordinary World -- see my &lt;a rel="nofollow" href="http://that.animeblogger.net/2006/11/13/here-i-come-to-save-the-day-5-anime-hero-archetypes/" rel="nofollow"&gt;heroes&lt;/a&gt; post for some examples -- but they do need to make a conscious choice to stay in the Special World, and hopefully gain some wisdom by it, too.

As for the 'elixir' or knowledge that Haruhi will bring back with her to the Ordinary World... I get the feeling, which is supported by a couple of scenes in the manga, that during her stay in the Special World Haruhi is gaining insight into not just the privileges but also the burdens of having money.  Her goal is to become a successful lawyer like her mother, and enrolling in a school like Ouran means she's aiming to enter the elite ranks.   Haruhi has made a few comments about the difficulty of preserving your own self-worth and self-sufficiency when others have such a great ability to put you in their debt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haesslich - I agree with you about the Special World, which is the world of rank, wealth and privilege Haruhi finds herself surrounded by after joining the Host Club.  Her deadpan common sense and irritation with waste and frippery make a great contrast with the silliness of the other hosts.  Keep in mind that heroes don&#8217;t necessarily have to return to the Ordinary World &#8212; see my <a rel="nofollow" href="http://that.animeblogger.net/2006/11/13/here-i-come-to-save-the-day-5-anime-hero-archetypes/" rel="nofollow">heroes</a> post for some examples &#8212; but they do need to make a conscious choice to stay in the Special World, and hopefully gain some wisdom by it, too.</p>
<p>As for the &#8216;elixir&#8217; or knowledge that Haruhi will bring back with her to the Ordinary World&#8230; I get the feeling, which is supported by a couple of scenes in the manga, that during her stay in the Special World Haruhi is gaining insight into not just the privileges but also the burdens of having money.  Her goal is to become a successful lawyer like her mother, and enrolling in a school like Ouran means she&#8217;s aiming to enter the elite ranks.   Haruhi has made a few comments about the difficulty of preserving your own self-worth and self-sufficiency when others have such a great ability to put you in their debt.</p>
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		<title>By: Sana Jisushi</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9562</link>
		<dc:creator>Sana Jisushi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 21:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That makes a lot of sense, and was pretty interesting, too. *goes to try it on random other things for fun*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That makes a lot of sense, and was pretty interesting, too. *goes to try it on random other things for fun*</p>
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		<title>By: Haesslich</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9558</link>
		<dc:creator>Haesslich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 20:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/27/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9558</guid>
		<description>I'd argue that most of the cast ends up being rivals or enemies to Haruhi at one point or another, with the sole exceptions of Mori/Hunny (I tend to pair them up, since they almost always appear as a unit), and MAYBE Kyouya. We don't see any signs of Haruhi returning from that Special World, or returning her gift to others, as Campbell's monomyth suggests happens in most cases, due to Hatori's desire to avoid resolving the issues at all... and the fact that Haruhi herself cannot bring everyone into the Special World with her, due to the nature of it - rich versus common folk is a situation she cannot rememdy; at most she can return herself to a normal life, or at least an upper-class life unless she marries into the 'nobility' as represented by Ouran.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d argue that most of the cast ends up being rivals or enemies to Haruhi at one point or another, with the sole exceptions of Mori/Hunny (I tend to pair them up, since they almost always appear as a unit), and MAYBE Kyouya. We don&#8217;t see any signs of Haruhi returning from that Special World, or returning her gift to others, as Campbell&#8217;s monomyth suggests happens in most cases, due to Hatori&#8217;s desire to avoid resolving the issues at all&#8230; and the fact that Haruhi herself cannot bring everyone into the Special World with her, due to the nature of it - rich versus common folk is a situation she cannot rememdy; at most she can return herself to a normal life, or at least an upper-class life unless she marries into the &#8216;nobility&#8217; as represented by Ouran.</p>
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		<title>By: Reslez</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9555</link>
		<dc:creator>Reslez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:55:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/27/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9555</guid>
		<description>@Haesslich - I was being humorous about mentors.  They don't always die, especially in light comedies/romances like Ouran, but their shelf-life isn't all that great either ;)

You're right that parts of the Journey don't really apply to Ouran.  That's why I stopped midway through the hero's journey in this post.  The Ouran anime does have a concluding arc I could have used, but I didn't think it made the best illustration for the remaining steps.

The role of Hikaru/Kaoru is a little more complicated.  I wouldn't call them allies.  They're "jester" characters who delight in stirring up trouble for their own amusement, but they're not especially antagonistic.  I'd count them more as rivals, using the word "rival" in a looser, storytelling sense.  A rival is a character who doesn't outright oppose the hero's goal but introduces all sorts of irritances, challenges, and delays.  Hikaru/Kaoru are troublemakers, but they're not as antagonistic as an actual enemy would be.  In the beach episode, I'd argue the true antagonist is Tamaki, who opposes Haruhi's desire to be recognized without regard for her gender -- the plot seems to boil down to this conflict.  Kaoru and Hikaru's competition to find out Haruhi's secret fear is more of a humourous sideshow irritant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Haesslich - I was being humorous about mentors.  They don&#8217;t always die, especially in light comedies/romances like Ouran, but their shelf-life isn&#8217;t all that great either <img src='http://that.animeblogger.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right that parts of the Journey don&#8217;t really apply to Ouran.  That&#8217;s why I stopped midway through the hero&#8217;s journey in this post.  The Ouran anime does have a concluding arc I could have used, but I didn&#8217;t think it made the best illustration for the remaining steps.</p>
<p>The role of Hikaru/Kaoru is a little more complicated.  I wouldn&#8217;t call them allies.  They&#8217;re &#8220;jester&#8221; characters who delight in stirring up trouble for their own amusement, but they&#8217;re not especially antagonistic.  I&#8217;d count them more as rivals, using the word &#8220;rival&#8221; in a looser, storytelling sense.  A rival is a character who doesn&#8217;t outright oppose the hero&#8217;s goal but introduces all sorts of irritances, challenges, and delays.  Hikaru/Kaoru are troublemakers, but they&#8217;re not as antagonistic as an actual enemy would be.  In the beach episode, I&#8217;d argue the true antagonist is Tamaki, who opposes Haruhi&#8217;s desire to be recognized without regard for her gender &#8212; the plot seems to boil down to this conflict.  Kaoru and Hikaru&#8217;s competition to find out Haruhi&#8217;s secret fear is more of a humourous sideshow irritant.</p>
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		<title>By: Estara</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9551</link>
		<dc:creator>Estara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 19:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/27/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9551</guid>
		<description>I'm just fascinated you're putting a whole other analysis onto the usual anime blog entries. I bet not that many anime blog readers have read Campbell at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just fascinated you&#8217;re putting a whole other analysis onto the usual anime blog entries. I bet not that many anime blog readers have read Campbell at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Haesslich</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9550</link>
		<dc:creator>Haesslich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 18:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/27/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9550</guid>
		<description>Mentors don't HAVE to drop dead - they just have to be removed, somehow.  In OtoBoku, Mariya is removed as a mentor by the introduction of Shion (who in turn gives Mizuho some advice before being shuffled off into a background role by the writers) and Mariya's own feelings for Mizuho.  With Ouran, the mentor is revealed as a real idiot (Tamaki) and then she just refuses to take advice from any of them... not that she really NEEDS to; as they note in the first episode, she's naturally charming and is able to keep girls' attention just by being herself.  

However, parts of the Journey don't apply to Ouran, just because it never really ends in the course of the anime series... and Bisco Hatori herself has stated they're ignoring things like grade advances, so as to simplify the plotwhich in turn suggests there'll be no easy resolution to the tale.  

At the same time, her allies here can at times be her enemies or tests as well - witness Ep 16 with the Hikaru/Haruhi date, or Ep 8 with the beach incident...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mentors don&#8217;t HAVE to drop dead - they just have to be removed, somehow.  In OtoBoku, Mariya is removed as a mentor by the introduction of Shion (who in turn gives Mizuho some advice before being shuffled off into a background role by the writers) and Mariya&#8217;s own feelings for Mizuho.  With Ouran, the mentor is revealed as a real idiot (Tamaki) and then she just refuses to take advice from any of them&#8230; not that she really NEEDS to; as they note in the first episode, she&#8217;s naturally charming and is able to keep girls&#8217; attention just by being herself.  </p>
<p>However, parts of the Journey don&#8217;t apply to Ouran, just because it never really ends in the course of the anime series&#8230; and Bisco Hatori herself has stated they&#8217;re ignoring things like grade advances, so as to simplify the plotwhich in turn suggests there&#8217;ll be no easy resolution to the tale.  </p>
<p>At the same time, her allies here can at times be her enemies or tests as well - witness Ep 16 with the Hikaru/Haruhi date, or Ep 8 with the beach incident&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Reslez</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9534</link>
		<dc:creator>Reslez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/27/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9534</guid>
		<description>@Lupus: I use the word "hero" for clarity and conciseness.  The "Hero's Journey" is a specific literary term; there is no such thing as a Campellian "Heroine's Journey".  Other writers have identified a monomyth theory for specifically female protagonists ("Containment", "Transformation", "Emergence"), but the important thing is the gender of the hero does not matter for any of them.  I used the masculine pronoun for my heroes post and no one minded that I included some female characters in that list...

@DKellis: You make a good point about mentors.  I may have to cover them in more detail in a future post.  The unfortunate fate of mentors tends to be that they drop dead at some point in the story.  It's good drama and lets the hero demonstrate some growth.  However, characters can take on various guises and roles throughout a story, which is good news for Tamaki in Ouran.  He's only a mentor for a short time :)  I'd definitely feel nervous if I was a grey-haired octogenarian guiding a young lad on an epic quest to defeat evil, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Lupus: I use the word &#8220;hero&#8221; for clarity and conciseness.  The &#8220;Hero&#8217;s Journey&#8221; is a specific literary term; there is no such thing as a Campellian &#8220;Heroine&#8217;s Journey&#8221;.  Other writers have identified a monomyth theory for specifically female protagonists (&#8221;Containment&#8221;, &#8220;Transformation&#8221;, &#8220;Emergence&#8221;), but the important thing is the gender of the hero does not matter for any of them.  I used the masculine pronoun for my heroes post and no one minded that I included some female characters in that list&#8230;</p>
<p>@DKellis: You make a good point about mentors.  I may have to cover them in more detail in a future post.  The unfortunate fate of mentors tends to be that they drop dead at some point in the story.  It&#8217;s good drama and lets the hero demonstrate some growth.  However, characters can take on various guises and roles throughout a story, which is good news for Tamaki in Ouran.  He&#8217;s only a mentor for a short time <img src='http://that.animeblogger.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  I&#8217;d definitely feel nervous if I was a grey-haired octogenarian guiding a young lad on an epic quest to defeat evil, though.</p>
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		<title>By: DKellis</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9528</link>
		<dc:creator>DKellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/27/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9528</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure whether this would be considered a spoiler, since it IS about a book that's been out for over half a century, but wasn't one of the major points about the Mentor figure in the monomyth that they had to step aside (or be put aside) in order for the Hero protagonist character to shine?

I'm not sure how far Campbell's book dealt with the various methods for the removal of the Mentor from the spotlight, ranging from being killed off (as in Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, even though it was technically only temporary) to simply ignoring them for the rest of the story. It'll be interesting to see the monomyth theory applied to various anime, and the variations they bring to the table.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure whether this would be considered a spoiler, since it IS about a book that&#8217;s been out for over half a century, but wasn&#8217;t one of the major points about the Mentor figure in the monomyth that they had to step aside (or be put aside) in order for the Hero protagonist character to shine?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how far Campbell&#8217;s book dealt with the various methods for the removal of the Mentor from the spotlight, ranging from being killed off (as in Star Wars or Lord of the Rings, even though it was technically only temporary) to simply ignoring them for the rest of the story. It&#8217;ll be interesting to see the monomyth theory applied to various anime, and the variations they bring to the table.</p>
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		<title>By: Lupus</title>
		<link>http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/28/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9527</link>
		<dc:creator>Lupus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jan 2007 16:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://that.animeblogger.net/2007/01/27/hopeful-road-the-heros-journey-and-ouran-high-school-host-club/#comment-9527</guid>
		<description>* Note on language
I will occasionally use the feminine pronoun (she/her/hers) for convenience, but a hero can be a man or a woman. In case you did not know that.

I have to disagree.  A hero is by definition, male.  The female equivalent is a heroine.

That is all.

(waits to be corrected and publicly humiliated)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>* Note on language<br />
I will occasionally use the feminine pronoun (she/her/hers) for convenience, but a hero can be a man or a woman. In case you did not know that.</p>
<p>I have to disagree.  A hero is by definition, male.  The female equivalent is a heroine.</p>
<p>That is all.</p>
<p>(waits to be corrected and publicly humiliated)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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